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  1. #5351
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post


    406.4(D)(2) Non–Grounding-Type Receptacles. Where attachment to an equipment grounding conductor does not exist in the receptacle enclosure, the installation shall comply with (D)(2)(a), (D)(2)(b), or (D)(2)(c).
    (a) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with another non–grounding-type receptacle(s).
    (b) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a ground-fault circuit interrupter-type of receptacle(s). These receptacles or their cover plates shall be marked “No Equipment Ground.” An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter-type receptacle to any outlet supplied from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle.
    (c) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Where grounding-type receptacles are supplied through the ground-fault circuit interrupter, grounding-type receptacles or their cover plates shall be marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground,” visible after installation. An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding-type receptacles.
    Jesus, I’m trying to enjoy my weekend here, no quoting the NEC.


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  2. #5352
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    Mar 2005
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    Dystopia
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    The difference between a ground and a neutral is one of the great mysteries of life.


    As is the concept of a ground fault protector working without any ground

    But it’s actually safer than a two prong outlet if you have no choice
    “I’m a subhuman jizz monkey”

    Thx mods. It’s an awesome signature.

  3. #5353
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    I use Flood on my house and fences (cedar)
    How often do you reapply? I’m in the INW as well and have a brand new cedar fence I was going yo put Thompson’s on, but if this lasts longer than two years I’d do it instead

  4. #5354
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    [FONT="]
    [/FONT]

    [FONT="]406.4(D)(2) Non–Grounding-Type Receptacles. Where attachment to an equipment grounding conductor does not exist in the receptacle enclosure, the installation shall comply with (D)(2)(a), (D)(2)(b), or (D)(2)(c).[/FONT]
    [FONT="](a) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with another non–grounding-type receptacle(s).[/FONT]
    [FONT="](b) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a ground-fault circuit interrupter-type of receptacle(s). These receptacles or their cover plates shall be marked “No Equipment Ground.” An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter-type receptacle to any outlet supplied from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle.[/FONT]
    (c) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Where grounding-type receptacles are supplied through the ground-fault circuit interrupter, grounding-type receptacles or their cover plates shall be marked “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground,” visible after installation. An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the grounding-type receptacles.
    thanks.

  5. #5355
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    Apr 2021
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    798
    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    Anyone know a good roofing company in SLC? This need will be for a metal roof that needs stoppers/bars added to an existing roof (what are they called?) to prevent snow sliding down and crushing me as I enter work. I could be wrong, but based on my roof design they will have to drill through it so I'd rather use someone recommended even though it seems like a basic job to me.
    A question bump, and a final bump before picking one myself....TUco? Skifishbum?

  6. #5356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon3 View Post
    How often do you reapply? I’m in the INW as well and have a brand new cedar fence I was going yo put Thompson’s on, but if this lasts longer than two years I’d do it instead
    Just redid a fence after 10 years. As someone said the key is saturation.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  7. #5357
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    A question bump, and a final bump before picking one myself....TUco? Skifishbum?
    Shit, brother, I don't.
    I would think that Dibs would though.
    And yeah, that's a real concern. I knew a dude that was crushed by a roof slide.

  8. #5358
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Electrician on This Old House says it's ok to put 3 prong GFI/AFI receptacles in 2 wire circuits. Comments? (Please state your qualifications.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    The difference between a ground and a neutral is one of the great mysteries of life.
    Or at least misunderstood.

    OG, the reason that a GFCI is better than nothing on a two conductor is that if there's a short, the current will spike and trip it.

    Another thing that's misunderstood, is that protections built into your home's electrical system are primarily to prevent the house from burning down. You can definitely still get electrocuted.

    edit to add qualifications: I've pulled a lot of wire

  9. #5359
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    Oct 2002
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    my own little world
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    3,567

    Home Remodel: Do, Don'ts, Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    A question bump, and a final bump before picking one myself....TUco? Skifishbum?
    They’re called snow brakes or snow guards. They rely on waterproofing (gaskets) around the penetration. There are worse DIY jobs….

    Around here there are plenty of businesses who skip the snow brakes and rely on “beware” signs to manage their liability. I’m surprised their insurance would cover them if the worst happened. And I’m surprised the business is good with the risk even if insurance DOES cover them.

    I had a snow slide take a deck off of my house once. Rebuilding it might have actually been discussed up thread. Depending on how much snow you get it can be quite dangerous.
    focus.

  10. #5360
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    Mar 2009
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    Not sure how much I would trust a neoprene gasket to seal by itself though, especially considering if the screw is a little off skew (not full contact from screw head to substrate) it's not going to seal completely.

  11. #5361
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Or at least misunderstood.

    OG, the reason that a GFCI is better than nothing on a two conductor is that if there's a short, the current will spike and trip it.

    Another thing that's misunderstood, is that protections built into your home's electrical system are primarily to prevent the house from burning down. You can definitely still get electrocuted.

    edit to add qualifications: I've pulled a lot of wire
    Hah. My wife has pulled a lot of wire helping her brother/electrician work in our house but I still don't trust her opinion on electrical safety. (I know what you mean, thanks for the explanation.)
    Our insurance pays for us to have a company monitor our house for arcs. Been about 6 months, no arcs so far. Half of our house has knob and tube so I worry. I have been told by an electrician that k and t is inherently safer as far as fires because the hot and neutral are socially distanced. I don't know if everyone agrees.
    The issue with replacing 2 prong receptacles with GFIs is moot because we've added properly grounded 3 prong receptacles in the old part of the house but there might be a need at some point. I'm married to a woman who could easily use receptacles every foot.

  12. #5362
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    Feb 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    A question bump, and a final bump before picking one myself....TUco? Skifishbum?
    Just to check does your roof have standing seam? If so there are clamps that can be used w/o drilling. We used a S-5 product on our roof and it has stayed put. You may be able to find something that you can DIY on their website. https://s-5.com/ Otherwise good luck finding a company.

  13. #5363
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    Nov 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    Just redid a fence after 10 years. As someone said the key is saturation.
    This is the house siding that was done 12 years ago. 1st is west facing which gets most of the weather and 2nd is north

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    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  14. #5364
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    Nov 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    They’re called snow brakes or snow guards. They rely on waterproofing (gaskets) around the penetration. There are worse DIY jobs….

    Around here there are plenty of businesses who skip the snow brakes and rely on “beware” signs to manage their liability. I’m surprised their insurance would cover them if the worst happened. And I’m surprised the business is good with the risk even if insurance DOES cover them.

    I had a snow slide take a deck off of my house once. Rebuilding it might have actually been discussed up thread. Depending on how much snow you get it can be quite dangerous.
    Snow brakes on my houseClick image for larger version. 

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    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  15. #5365
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    Oct 2011
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    Aspen
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Skied Bandini Mountain View Post
    LOL the original forest service wood treatment was half motor oil and half kerosene.
    Heh. 10 years ago I was working for Marty Stoufer, helping him with projects at his old place outside Aspen. He’d managed to get a pallet of that stuff, labeled “Forest Service Oil.” Unclear how he acquired it, but that’s typical Marty.


    Q: is there a better product than spackle for patching/filling a 55”x2” strip in a window sill? It’s missing 1-2mm of material. Just looking to make it even for painting

    Click image for larger version. 

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  16. #5366
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    Clean it up(remove loose shit),sand w80g. Use joint compound and embed nylon tape over the corner bead to drywall seam.

  17. #5367
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I have been told by an electrician that k and t is inherently safer as far as fires because the hot and neutral are socially distanced. I don't know if everyone agrees.
    Yeah, I'd mostly agree with that re: k&t (with the disclaimer that I'm not a licensed electrician. Just a guy who worked for one) My observation is that the original workmanship of k&t circuits was quite good - probably because people were generally more afraid of electricity than they are now. And like asbestos siding, leaving it alone is better than messing with it, unless you're going to completely replace it.

    The only danger lies in places where there isn't much separation between conductors like the boxes and connections between the old and new. Especially as it ages and gets more brittle.

  18. #5368
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuco View Post
    Clean it up(remove loose shit),sand w80g. Use joint compound and embed nylon tape over the corner bead to drywall seam.
    Alright alright!

  19. #5369
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    This is the house siding that was done 12 years ago. 1st is west facing which gets most of the weather and 2nd is north

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    Damn that looks fabulous! I’m sold

  20. #5370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Yeah, I'd mostly agree with that re: k&t (with the disclaimer that I'm not a licensed electrician. Just a guy who worked for one) My observation is that the original workmanship of k&t circuits was quite good - probably because people were generally more afraid of electricity than they are now. And like asbestos siding, leaving it alone is better than messing with it, unless you're going to completely replace it.

    The only danger lies in places where there isn't much separation between conductors like the boxes and connections between the old and new. Especially as it ages and gets more brittle.
    Thanks. (I was just kidding about the wire-pulling thing.)

    Re snow brakes--there have been a couple of deaths around here over the years from roof slides. In a big year the slide off our neighbor's roof slams into the back of our house, has taken out the cable, come within a foot or two the power line and the service entrance. He has installed some small roof brakes which I doubt will work the next time we have a big year. At least the propane tank the roof used to hit is gone. The town's approach has been to increase side setbacks, rather than mandating roofs that won't slide because of brakes, slope or materials. (We have a deed restriction requiring a non-sliding roof the town imposed on us because the neighbor built too close to the property line (ie on it) but that's the only exception I know about.)

  21. #5371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon3 View Post
    Damn that looks fabulous! I’m sold
    That west facing wall gets serious abuse from wind (with dust/sand) and sun with a bit of rain and snow thrown in - it's is ready to be re-done but overall not bad IMO.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  22. #5372
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    Fine lookin crib KQ.

  23. #5373
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    Apr 2005
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    ^^^ ditto i like the miterless window framing finish
    Quote Originally Posted by muted reborn View Post
    A question bump, and a final bump before picking one myself....TUco? Skifishbum?
    sorry had fam in town and missed this
    i see the shaw roofing truck in the ski parking lots and havent ever heard anything bad bout em
    ive used those s5 lock onto the standing seam and run bars, retention system but you need a prominent standing seam and if its steep and deep and the snow can git moving you may need more than one row
    im not a fan of face screwing snow eagles or guards into metal but if there's a bithithane underlayment they wont ussually leak
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  24. #5374
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    Oct 2002
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    Sorry, just getting back to this thread and my question about stain.

    Can’t get Sikkens/PPG or Messmers anywhere near here. HD carries PPG, but not in VA. No Flood, either.

    Looks like I should be considering a tinted semi transparent or a neutral base for better UV protection? I got a lot of fence and this shit is starting to add up. I was gonna pay the neighborhood handyman to do the job but he’s just going to spray it on and I don’t want to have that argument with him. The new fence is brand new and seems worth the effort. Old fence is probably 15 years old so I’m maybe more inclined to go cheaper on supplies.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  25. #5375
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    KQ, is the open-joint siding intended to be a climbing/growing surface?

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