late-90s/early-00s Outback vs. 4Runner

[orange]

Showdown: Outback vs. 4Runner

Need a new vehicle. Currently live in Portland. Mostly highway-to-mountains trips. Not much around town driving, save a big grocery store run. Also will not be a daily work commuter. Looking for something with some ground clearance for forest service roads and 4/AWD is a must.

Big factors I'm considering, roughly in order: 1. Reliability 2. Maintenance cost/frequency 3. Fuel economy. I know this era Subaru is plagued with head gasket and timing belt issues. What should I look out for in 4Runners?

I'm leaning more towards the Outback because they're widely available out here, as are parts and service. Plus, they're better on gas while still giving (some of) the clearance and AWD I'd get out of a larger SUV. My girlfriend (potential co-owner) is leaning heavily towards the 4Runner, mainly on looks and the desire to drive an SUV. I'm not against a 4Runner at all, but I've got the idea in my head they'll be more expensive to drive and maintain. Is this true?

Would hear other suggestions, too, but it seems narrowed to these two. Also, anybody in the PNW selling one of these?

[edit 1: should I consider a A4 Avant Quattro wagon? Did I just open the Audi/Subaru can of worms?]
[edit 2: no, an A4 will likely be too expensive]

[iceman]

Might as well get the thread drift started early: Cherokee.

I just bought an '00 and it's noice. It should run forever, plenty peppy enough, excellent 4WD capability, parts are cheap and will always be available, I like it.

edit: I see your edit, if it's an Audi in that group it would be an allroad, I have one of those too. Parts and repairs are expensive. The OEM suspension is a wear item and will need to be repaired over and over until you go aftermarket (Arnott makes a grear replacement kit that comes with a lifetime warranty, spendy but very worth it). Drives better than either of your first picks and still can go pretty much wherever (8.2" ground clearance at full supension height) and they're pretty cheap now. It's a good vehicle, great to drive, but expensive to maintain.

[orange]

Might as well get the thread drift started early: Cherokee.

I just bought an '00 and it's noice. It should run forever, plenty peppy enough, excellent 4WD capability, parts are cheap and will always be available, I like it.

Funny you say this, and say it so quickly. We waffled on a Cherokee for a while. I was in favor, but for her it seemed like a non-starter. I really couldn't figure out why, or win that particular argument, so we moved on to other options.

[orange]

edit: I see your edit, if it's an Audi in that group it would be an allroad, I have one of those too. Parts and repairs are expensive. The OEM suspension is a wear item and will need to be repaired over and over until you go aftermarket (Arnott makes a grear replacement kit that comes with a lifetime warranty, spendy but very worth it). Drives better than either of your first picks and still can go pretty much wherever (8.2" ground clearance at full supension height) and they're pretty cheap now. It's a good vehicle, great to drive, but expensive to maintain.

I used to drive a B5.5 V6 4Motion wagon that I loved the hell out of. It became too expensive to maintain and was showing signs of serious exhaust issues. I feel like the situation of maintaining the Audi wagon would be a similar, and outweigh the advantages of the car itself. I see one for sale around here for $3k, but it's at 200k miles without any recent major repairs/replacements done.

[iceman]

The allroad is a really great car in a lot of ways but not if you're poor. The suspension is one thing, but for example they moved the timing belt interval up to I think 75K (it was 105 when the car was new but they had issues) and that's major surgery. I have had zero major issues at 130K (it's an '04) but it still costs to keep it on the road. One of those life tradeoff things. It's a tank in the snow is one reason I keep it. Unstoppable.

[orange]

The allroad is a really great car but not if you're poor.

Yeah. I am poor right now. At least car-ownership-and-maintenance-poor.

[uglymoney]

We have on 02 Outback and and 03 4 Runner. From new both are reasonably reliable. From a rust and reliability standpoint 12 to 13 years down the road you want the 4 Runner. Fuel economy the Outback isn't great but it is always 5 to 8 mpg better than the 4-Runner which is a big difference. Outbacks are pretty easy to work on and parts are cheap and widely available discounted. I am putting new head gaskets in my 02 right now at 172k. It blew them the first time at 27k. I replaced the worn out suspension this past winter myself and added a bunch of ground clearance ($800). Double overhead cam pre 00 Outbacks had a catastrophic head gasket issue but they released an updated head gasket which is thick and bomber so if you can find one of those you might be okay. The 00-09 SOHC engine didn't get an update but diy and shops other than dealer put the turbo gaskets in them and they seem to hold and I have a set laying right here beside me ready to go in.

You are in Portland so not much of worry but the 00-02 Outbacks had rust issues with the rear subframe. Be sure to check and make sure the car never lived in the midwest or out east. Mine was painted by the dealer the first summer I had it and I wash and flush the underbody frequently so I seem okay for now but this is sending many Outbacks to the junkyard if owners don't want to shell to replace the rear subframe ($400 plus a bunch of labor or DIY).

I don't know anything about the 02 and earlier 4 Runners. Some of the 04 4Runners developed head gasket problems. I am replacing the serpentine belt and pulleys on ours today for the 3x because it always gets squeaky. I previously replaced the tensioner pulley to solve the problem but it didn't. More of an annoyance than anything.

Tires are cheaper on the Outback.

The 4 Runner is far more capable off road and better at towing but the Outback is much more fun to drive and rides better.

No matter which way you go if you are buying an 00 anything you are getting a car that is basically 15 years old. Problems will pop up.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Find a late 90s Outback in good shape that has recently had head gasket, timing belt and water pump replaced. I just bought one from the go to Subaru mechanics here and it also had new main seals and all gaskets and hoses replaced for $4500, that's about $3000 dollars worth of parts and labor. Car has 175,000 miles and runs and drives like a champ. I can drive on any FS road and it's way more comfortable on the dirt or pavement than a body on frame type 4x4. The ride in a 4Runner or Cherokee is harsh by comparison. Decent gas mileage too, especially when I fill up with non ethanol gas.

[stuckathuntermtn]

I'd say Outback if you were driving around Portland and commuting with it. Since you're not, I think you answered your own question.

[papapoopski]

Don't even think about Audi if money is a concern. My wagon was reeeeally fun to drive. But then i needed a repair which would have cost more than I paid for the car.

I have a 02 4runner. Look for 3rd gen runners 96-02. They are considered a great mix of offroad prowess and on road manners. Effin bomb proof motor, tranny and pretty much everything else in the truck. Parts are not too expensive, easy to work on, hold value as well especially where you are. Tons of aftermarket add ons. As with any older vehicle, maintenance records are key.

I really like the cherokee, I had a 99 but IMO, they tend to fall apart around the engine over the long term. They will run forever though.

I have no experience with subaru

[SLCMunchie]

4runner for sure. I owned a '98 for 7 years from 60k to 180k. Rock solid.

[smitchell333]

The outback is a better around town and highway car with a little off-road capability.

The forerunner is an off-road vehicle that doubles as city and highway car.

If you don't need true high clearance low geared off-road capability than the outback is better.

[Supermoon]

Funny you should mention this. I bought a 2000 4Runner last fall from a dealer in Portland. We've really loved it so far. 190k miles, 5-speed. No issues and runs strong.

Been kicking around the idea of selling it as we are moving more downtown and can't keep two vehicles most likely. PM me if you're interested.

[powdork]

both are solid choices. i'm a subaru fan in general cause i've taken 3 past the 250k mark. i'm not one to do any maintenance either. have a cherokee now and it's ok. gas mileage is abysmal however.

[philth]

Subie vs Toyota in reliability?…..Toyota wins hands down in my personal experience. My 13 year old tundra runs better than my buddy's 6 yr old subie wagon. Thing is a tin shitbox.

[SB]

4R
FTW
FKNA

[TheElk]

The outback is a better around town and highway car with a little off-road capability.

The forerunner is an off-road vehicle that doubles as city and highway car.

If you don't need true high clearance low geared off-road capability than the outback is better.

This. We've owned two 3rd Generation 4runners over the years and just bought a '04 Outback. They drive night and day differently. Test drive both, and I suspect that you'll strongly lean one way or the other.

We only purchased the outback because we are overseas and 4Runners (surfs) are rather expensive here, especially compared to an older Outback. If you can find an Outback with the H6 engine, they are considered bomber and the HG is not a problem as it is with other engines. Plus, the H6 has a timing chain rather than a belt. I wish it had more clearance as well as 4wd Low but it is much more pleasant to drive than the 4Runner.

On the 4Runner, there were no consistent problems in the 3rd generation (unlike the HG's in the Subie's), so other than a standard buyers check (by you/a mechanic) just make sure the belt was done at 120k so you don't have to fork over for that.

As to your concern regarding more cost to maintain, I do not believe that to be true. The 3rd Generation 4Runners are quite reliable in general (at least on par if not better than the Subie), and parts and mechanics are equally available for a 4Runner as a Subaru.

[reganized]

I'd sack up and score an 05 outback. If you want something cheaper, get a Cherokee with an auto tranny. Will run forever. Look for one w/o too much rust.


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[east or bust]

tough choice but I'd go 4runner

ever seen the top gear with the yota pickup? nuffsaid

[old goat]

we had a 2000 4 runner until I wrecked it at about 150,000. Up til then it had zero problems--only time it was in the shop was for routine maintenance. But--I wrecked it because it drove like shit. liked to slide through stop signs when it was icy, fishtailed on tight freeway ramps on dry pavement. I wrecked it when it hydroplaned on a patch of slush on an otherwise dry pavement. So--outback pros-drives better, better mileage. 4Runner--more reliable.I'm not sure the ground clearance is any better in the 4 Runner--not sure on that one. Also, switching in and out of 4wd when going from dry to snowy pavement is a pain. I'm going to guess that the outback is also safer due to the lower center of gravity. And maneuverability is more important than mass as far as safety goes, IMO. Why do women think they need SUV's?

[iceman]

'Cuase they're little and weak and afraid and it makes them feel big and powerful and safe. They could give a rat's ass about the handling, awd system, any of that, as long as it's big and high and feels solid and hefty.

Saw a Suburban yesterday, at first glance it looked like no one was driving. Second glance too. Third glance revealed a tiny 5-foot-nuthin' mom literally looking through the steering wheel, eyes barely higher than the dash. She couldn't see worth shit but I bet she felt safe and powerful.

[MontuckyFried]

Reminds me of the Hyundai (I think) compact suv commericals where the woman steps out of her behemoth and plummets out of sight, and the other one where she grabs the lift gate and ends up dangling up high. Can't seem to find them on Youtube. Maybe the ads were pulled because they offended these lady 'Burban/Excursion drivers? Either way, those ads always cracked me up.

Never did quite understand how some of these tiny women could like driving such a monstrous, unwieldy vehicle. I understand the issue of wanting more space, but minivans are far superior for most families since most chicks aren't exactly going off-roading or hauling trailers.

[that dude who did that thing]

'Cuase they're little and weak and afraid and it makes them feel big and powerful and safe. They could give a rat's ass about the handling, awd system, any of that, as long as it's big and high and feels solid and hefty.

So, same reason men who work in offices drive Tundras, F150s and Dodge Rams?

[Hugh Conway]

The outback is a better around town and highway car with a little off-road capability.

The forerunner is an off-road vehicle that doubles as city and highway car.

If you don't need true high clearance low geared off-road capability than the outback is better.

Does the 4Runner really count as high clearance? stock outbacks seemed to handle most of the common forest roads/trailheads in the PNW just fine. the choice of "active outdoorsy" people and everyone and their brother has one. even really low-clearance cars could with care. without modifications I'm not sure how much more useful a 4Runner would be. not sure it's self-selection bias or my jaundiced view, but there always seemed to be more 4runner/pathfinder/tacoma's in the ditch or flipped than any other type of vehicle.


women are lugging around children in those beasts regularly. that's at least something. the deskdweller men are hauling lots of air in their pickups 363 days a year

[Supermoon]

Never did quite understand how some of these tiny women could like driving such a monstrous, unwieldy vehicle.

Gives my wife practice for the bedroom.