New tech binding Marker "King"

[salx]

Spoke with marker yesterday and saw both the first run production and 2nd run with the "fix" for the press fit issues with the pins. New ones the pins don't sit flush with the outside of the jaws. Far as I can tell that's the easiest way to tell at this point if you have 1st or 2nd gen.

So, the first run sits flush with the outside of the jaws.
Can you detail on the second run that does not sit flush with outside?

(Have the ones that sit flush with outside, so, badluck i guess)

[Choucas]

Will there be new and improved Kingpins showing up in shops by the end of Feb.? If so, most likely place in Northern New England/ADKS to find a pair (prefer 10 but will take 13) + crampons?

[Skidog]

So, the first run sits flush with the outside of the jaws.
Can you detail on the second run that does not sit flush with outside?

(Have the ones that sit flush with outside, so, badluck i guess)

The steel pin does not sit flush with the outside of the clamp on 2nd gen. 1st gen steel pin sits flush with the alum clamp on the outside.

[Skidog]

I am going to recant my statement. I agree with another poster in light of more reports. While the reaction time is good, as mentioned maybe they should just be recalling all toes and replacing not just the toes with pin backouts.

As for any that are out there now? Pretty sure only 1st gens are out.

They likely don't have ramped up production with the fix ready to accommodate all the affected toes. If I had a pair I'd be requesting replacements and not skiing them until I had the fixed toes.

[rangerjake]

Ranger Jake has Marker asked you to reach out to Customers or is this your own initiative?

my own initiative

[Merlyn]

Demo'd a pair of brand new Kingpin 10's morning. After 3 hours of lift served, both left and right bindings had a pin pulling out a bit.

That being said, the bindings felt solid and definitely less harsh than my Dynafit Verticals. I think Marker is on the right track and I'm hoping this

[Merlyn]

... gets resolved.

[nickel]

my own initiative

That's the kind of stuff I just love to hear. Your customers are pretty lucky to have a place like that to shop, really stand-up-guy type stuff.

Makes me wonder what Marker's waiting for.

[nickel]

I am going to recant my statement. I agree with another poster in light of more reports. While the reaction time is good, as mentioned maybe they should just be recalling all toes and replacing not just the toes with pin backouts.

I think my main issue with the "reaction time" is the outreach part. A recall gets some media play and makes it more likely all affected customers find out about the issue. A post on wildsnow with a couple of Internet threads makes the assumption that every pair of bindings is under a person with a healthy habit of online investigation. Not everyone gives a fuck about the internet, they still have a right as a consumer to purchase a binding and assume it keeps their foot on the ski, IMO.

[SiSt]

I think my main issue with the "reaction time" is the outreach part. A recall gets some media play and makes it more likely all affected customers find out about the issue. A post on wildsnow with a couple of Internet threads makes the assumption that every pair of bindings is under a person with a healthy habit of online investigation. Not everyone gives a fuck about the internet, they still have a right as a consumer to purchase a binding and assume it keeps their foot on the ski, IMO.

This. And the fact that marker were really actively marketing how they'd tested and tested and tested this binding before releasing it.

If you make a single change to the production process, you need to do all that testing again. This is the same as what happened to the first run NTN bindings back in the day with their sticky power tubes, change in manufacturing sent it all to shit.

[Skidog]

This. And the fact that marker were really actively marketing how they'd tested and tested and tested this binding before releasing it.

If you make a single change to the production process, you need to do all that testing again. This is the same as what happened to the first run NTN bindings back in the day with their sticky power tunes, change in manufacturing sent it all to shit.

This is exactly it. Had this exact discussion on the chair yesterday. The tested bindings were small run hands on engineers etc. No change was made far as I know aside from the change in production. Well like mentioned if that first production run is any different than the first type test it.

[YoEddy]

Will there be new and improved Kingpins showing up in shops by the end of Feb.? ...

Does anyone know for certain if Marker will release more Kingpins this season?

[YoEddy]

Does anyone know for certain if Marker will release more Kingpins this season?

One last bump for input from anyone in the know before I drill holes for B16's ...

Edit: Answer direct from marker is no more Kingpins until next season.

[galibier_numero_un]

This. And the fact that marker were really actively marketing how they'd tested and tested and tested this binding before releasing it.

If you make a single change to the production process, you need to do all that testing again. This is the same as what happened to the first run NTN bindings back in the day with their sticky power tubes, change in manufacturing sent it all to shit.

They definitely went out of process (QA and QC). Seems to be the norm these daze. Knowing that they'll resolve this (and have been issuing replacements) after all of our friends beta test this year, I'm optimistic in the sense that no design flaws are popping up.

I think my main issue with the "reaction time" is the outreach part. A recall gets some media play and makes it more likely all affected customers find out about the issue. A post on wildsnow with a couple of Internet threads makes the assumption that every pair of bindings is under a person with a healthy habit of online investigation. Not everyone gives a fuck about the internet, they still have a right as a consumer to purchase a binding and assume it keeps their foot on the ski, IMO.

It certainly would have been nice if they'd been a bit more proactive about this (https://www.wildsnow.com/15828/marke...pin-2015-2016/).

Cheers,
Thom

[XXX-er]

I think my main issue with the "reaction time" is the outreach part. A recall gets some media play and makes it more likely all affected customers find out about the issue. A post on wildsnow with a couple of Internet threads makes the assumption that every pair of bindings is under a person with a healthy habit of online investigation. Not everyone gives a fuck about the internet, they still have a right as a consumer to purchase a binding and assume it keeps their foot on the ski, IMO.

I would disagree, in 15 yrs of gear geeking on the WWW over & over I have watched early adopters buy kayak/ bike/ skis gear which invariably fails because no matter what the Mfger tests for something else always shows up

BECAUSE of the internet the early adopters are able to exchange info & establish a pattern of breakage way before any company can react and form a conspiracy theory which is usually ... "insert-name-of-company wanted to fuck me up on purpose " but think about how fast shit happens where you work its never in real time?

In this case I believe the kingpins were all bought at a dealer but in many cases stuff gets bought on line so where does a company post a notice if not on line ?

IME people in the outdoor gear business are usually too busy to hang out on the web sites like a gear geek.

[nickel]

To an extent, I see your point. However, relying on the spread of anecdotal evidence and the dependence on a third party like Lou, while not an awful reaction, is a bit lax. They issued a statement a few weeks ago basically saying it was an isolated problem. That's patently untrue as they're now blaming the assembly process. Even if they choose to depend on sites like wild snow, they should be using clear and unambiguous verbiage. This latest statement is much better in that they admit the problem potentially affects every toe piece produced.

[XXX-er]

To an extent, I see your point. However, relying on the spread of anecdotal evidence and the dependence on a third party like Lou, while not an awful reaction, is a bit lax. They issued a statement a few weeks ago basically saying it was an isolated problem. That's patently untrue as they're now blaming the assembly process. Even if they choose to depend on sites like wild snow, they should be using clear and unambiguous verbiage. This latest statement is much better in that they admit the problem potentially affects every toe piece produced.

Well Marker could have been lying or Marker could have been wrong about what they thot at any point or one marker guy sez this and another marker guy sez that, in any case what was important in this OR any of the situations I claim to have seen in the last 15 years was not that a product failed in a way that the maker did not for-see but that the company took care of the customer

And if not wildsnow then where would be a better place to post updates? I can't think of a better place cuz all the people I know that are into an early release of a tech binding either follow Lou or ski with some one who follows Lou or they will be out there and some stranger will ski up and ask if those are the updated toe pieces cuz nowadays the gear geeks are everywhere

I used to go into a very cool gear store run by a very cool guy but he never went on the interent cuz " I ain't got time for that" but he knew I was a gear geek so when ever I walk in he would come over and ask whats new in the outdoor world who bought whom ect ect, cuz he knew he would learn everything I/we waste huge amounts of time geeking over in about 3 minutes, I do a little shopping he gives me the bro deal ... its all good!

[Brianskis]

Does anyone know for certain if Marker will release more Kingpins this season?

Don't think you'll see any till late summer/early fall

[XavierD]

IMO, Marker is going about this in a sensible, and reasonable manner. The are replacing toe pieces that have issues, if your toe piece does not have an issue, keep skiing until it does and it will then be replaced. The issue does not put the skier at risk, just a potential for the binding to have an issue. Marker undoubtedly has a limited ability to put out new toe pieces. Given the state of the international season, it would not surprise me if many King Pin's are sitting unused right now. The most sensible method to distribute the limited toe piece resource is to get them to those who meet the two criteria a) actually have a problem, b) will use their kingpin's before next season or marker has time to build up enough toe pieces.

Marker can not simply wave a wand and have an design fix with several hundred new toe pieces magically appear, and then send those out. The new toe design needs to be tested, and that testing includes consumer level abuse. It does not matter what industry you are in, from skiing, to military gear, to knitting, you will not be able to test it to the point where the public user will not break it. Consumers are just too fucking stupid to be able to predict. Imagine if Marker immediately produced xxx pairs of kingpin toe 1.2s and sent them all out, and those had an issue. Now they need to do another 100% recall, many for ones that have never been touched.

I know that rambled on a little bit, but IMO, Marker is handling this well.

[nickel]

IMO you guys let companies off too easy. Scarpa had an isolated issue with the walk mode switch on the F1 EVO. It allegedly required a rare set of circumstances to reproduce, but could lead to accidentally going into walk mode. They did a full voluntary recall. Marker has a widespread issue which can lead to your ski coming entirely off your foot and they're waiting for the user to catch the problem and send it back on a need-be basis. Proactive vs reactive, and IMO a company with good sense, and another playing fast and loose with people's safety. If nothing happens, they'll minimize the bad press and look OK on Lou's website, but if someone experiences the failure at the wrong time or doesn't notice on a change over, marker will look like real assholes.

[XavierD]

Marker has a widespread issue which can lead to your ski coming entirely off your foot

I disagree.

I don't see the kingpin issue as being a safety issue. The Scarpa I saw as a being a safety issue.

[nickel]

Err... The toe pins come out. Because no one has yet been hurt by this problem does not mean there is no possibility of it happening.

[XavierD]

how are the toe pins going to come out to the point of release while the boot is in the binding? They are not going to, the boot is in the way. There is a possibility of it, yes. You can also get hit by lightning, as it gets drawn to the metallic zipper on your TNF jacket; not TNF's fault for using a highly conductive material in the zipper.

[XXX-er]

Maybe but I don't see any easy work around with the EVO short of replacing the boot whereas there is an easy work around with the Kingpin ... replace the toe piece

how exactly did scarpa announce the recall?

[j0z77]

If pins loosened and disappeared in Backcountry, the skier would be put at risk of death, I think.