Lawyers: Work Visa Legal Talk

[Swine]

So, if this is too work related feel free to move it.

The, very small, company that I co-run needs to hire a person or two to do work in S. America and Europe for a couple months a year. Sponsoring a Visa, I know, can be a pain in the ass. One of the front-runners from the interview process is a Brit; is it true they need a US Work Visa even if they aren't working on American soil? Is there a way around that with some sort of sub-contracting arrangement?

I'm open to any tips or resources... the uscis.gov site is a bit daunting at the moment and all the Visa's center around coming to the US to work, not working for a US company abroad (but maybe there is no difference?)

[PNWbrit]

No you don't need a US issued visa for a Brit working in Europe for a US company. (think about how that would work.... have a guess how many US companies employee Europeans in Europe...)

You may need to do something about getting a S American issued visa for a Brit working in S. America for a US company.

[Swine]

Ok, excellent. For some reason the owner is under the impression that we do need her to have it. Is there something I can point him towards to verify that she doesn't need one? (This is our first time dealing with something like this)

[Swine]

No you don't need a US issued visa for a Brit working in Europe for a US company. (think about how that would work.... have a guess how many US companies employee Europeans in Europe...)

You may need to do something about getting a S American issued visa for a Brit working in S. America for a US company.

One caveat though, do those multi-national companies have a subsidiary setup in the EU? Is that why they can do that so easily?

[PNWbrit]

One caveat though, do those multi-national companies have a subsidiary setup in the EU? Is that why they can do that so easily?

There is no requirement for US companies to have a US issued visa for foreign workers working solely in other countries. Regardless of whether they have subsidiaries.

The only concern would be that the overseas worker has visa rights issued by country in which he is working.... Obviously a brit can work anywhere in the EU. You'll need to check with the S American countries about their rules regarding work permits for him though.

There isn't really anything to "point you at" since it's just not required.

When you say hire? You're making this guy an employee? For a couple of months? That might not be the best idea compared with say just paying him as a contractor or consultant... it could put you at risk of certain responsibilities or liabilities to him or restrict your freedom to decide when he is no longer going to be an employee.

[Swine]

There is no requirement for US companies to have a US issued visa for foreign workers working solely in other countries. Regardless of whether they have subsidiaries.

The only concern would be that the overseas worker has visa rights issued by country in which he is working.... Obviously a brit can work anywhere in the EU. You'll need to check with the S American countries about their rules regarding work permits for him though.

There isn't really anything to "point you at" since it's just not required.

When you say hire? You're making this guy an employee? For a couple of months? That might not be the best idea compared with say just paying him as a contractor or consultant... it could put you at risk of certain responsibilities or liabilities to him or restrict your freedom to decide when he is no longer going to be an employee.

You're right, my idea is to hire them as a sub-contractor and/or consultant.

Alright, I have some emails to fire off at this point.

[jamesp]

it would be pretty funny for the English girl to turn up in a Venezuela or wherever, sans visa, saying "... but I have a US visa...".

[PNWbrit]

You're right, my idea is to hire them as a sub-contractor and/or consultant.

Alright, I have some emails to fire off at this point.

Plus you don't want to have to get involved in paying his UK taxes for him as an employee.

[creaky fossil]

I tend to make all business decisions with legal exposures on a simple basis. Namely, based on what some random maggot on TGR says may apply in some cases.

Why pay a lawyer for his/her time when a maggot can give you uninformed pretense for free! Slaypow posted a cool stoke edit, so if Slaypow says X is the likely result, I'm gonna believe it. Stoke edits are legal tender for risk assessment expertise and legal landscape familiarity.

[Swine]

I tend to make all business decisions with legal exposures on a simple basis. Namely, based on what some random maggot on TGR says may apply in some cases.

Why pay a lawyer for his/her time when a maggot can give you uninformed pretense for free! Slaypow posted a cool stoke edit, so if Slaypow says X is the likely result, I'm gonna believe it. Stoke edits are legal tender for risk assessment expertise and legal landscape familiarity.

Oh don't worry, I'm doing actual research as well. So far I've struck out with the State department and the UK embassy. There are legal/tax complications with sub-contracting in this manner and I'm trying to figure out how to navigate through.

[PNWbrit]

I tend to make all business decisions with legal exposures on a simple basis. Namely, based on what some random maggot on TGR says may apply in some cases.

Why pay a lawyer for his/her time when a maggot can give you uninformed pretense for free! Slaypow posted a cool stoke edit, so if Slaypow says X is the likely result, I'm gonna believe it. Stoke edits are legal tender for risk assessment expertise and legal landscape familiarity.

twat....

There are legal/tax complications with sub-contracting in this manner.

Absolutely.

You should probably seek the advice of a UK lawyer.

But no wait you'd need to get a visa for that .... check with the State Department?

[creaky fossil]

twat....

when you bad-toothed toffee-munchers go for the polite "twat" instead of the rough-n-tumble "cunt" I know you're pulling punches.

we should definitely talk in the abstract when assessing risks for a specific situation. the specifics do not matter and can't possibly change the outcome. I'm confident assessing risks with no material facts whatever, but that's because I'm channeling stuckathuntermtn right now.

Oh don't worry, I'm doing actual research as well. So far I've struck out with the State department and the UK embassy. There are legal/tax complications with sub-contracting in this manner and I'm trying to figure out how to navigate through.

just busting chops here. nothing wrong, stupid or foolish in collecting alternative views. the real difficulty is choosing which to follow/believe/trust, and it's good to be careful to avoid believing (as a default) the source that told you what you wanted to hear.

I would think checking Dept of Labor and IRS laws-regs-guidance may be more useful than State Dept, as State tends to care little to none about immigrants & off-books employment.

I'm not foolish enough to offer a view since this area wasn't ever my area. I would just say: dig deep, range far, see all interpretations before making a move. the one unifying truth about lawyers and legal advice is this: the most thorough tends to be the best.

[PNWbrit]

when assessing risks for a specific situation.

When the specific situation is.

"is it true they need a US Work Visa even if they aren't working on American soil"

There's no risk.

Cunt.

[Swine]

just busting chops here. nothing wrong, stupid or foolish in collecting alternative views. the real difficulty is choosing which to follow/believe/trust, and it's good to be careful to avoid believing (as a default) the source that told you what you wanted to hear.

I would think checking Dept of Labor and IRS laws-regs-guidance may be more useful than State Dept, as State tends to care little to none about immigrants & off-books employment.

I'm not foolish enough to offer a view since this area wasn't ever my area. I would just say: dig deep, range far, see all interpretations before making a move. the one unifying truth about lawyers and legal advice is this: the most thorough tends to be the best.

This is definitely outside my realm and I'm not trying to fall into confirmation bias. I'm continuing on, thanks for the Labor and IRS suggestions.

[creaky fossil]

When the specific situation is.

"is it true they need a US Work Visa even if they aren't working on American soil"

There's no risk.

Cunt.

No risk of what type, pudenda?

[PNWbrit]

No risk of what type,

.....any kind of punishment for not having a US issued visa to work in Europe.

[abraham]

I know my parent's company created a separate company in England when they had an office there. I'm not sure about the ownership, whether it was split or the guy in England owned it with some sort of distributor deal. It was a pain and ended up not worth it but that was because of personnel choices. We may have to make a similar decision in the next 2 years but there's too much to do before even thinking about it. I can ask this weekend if you'd like any advice about approaching the issue.

[Swine]

I know my parent's company created a separate company in England when they had an office there. I'm not sure about the ownership, whether it was split or the guy in England owned it with some sort of distributor deal. It was a pain and ended up not worth it but that was because of personnel choices. We may have to make a similar decision in the next 2 years but there's too much to do before even thinking about it. I can ask this weekend if you'd like any advice about approaching the issue.

Setting up a foreign subsidiary is definitely out of scope for what we want to do at the moment. It may make sense some day though.

[creaky fossil]

.....any kind of punishment for not having a US issued visa to work in Europe.

punishment by whom? for what purposes?

thank you for carrying stuckie's and lindahl's water here. arrogant dismissal is the essence of great legal counseling. I'm impressed by the scope & depth of your knowledge in the post-9/11 thicket of absurd US federal restrictions, regulations, laws, procedures, etc. clearly you are the lindahl/stuckie of the Law.

[PNWbrit]

punishment by whom?

No one. That's the point...

for what purposes?

SInce there isn't any there's no purpose.

That's the point.

A US company isn't required (and couldn't even do so if it tried since such a thing doesn't exist ) to obtain or have proof of a fucking work visa (from the US gov or the UK) to hire/contract/consult with a UK citizen who is only working in UK (or EU). It also isn't required to open a UK subsidiary to do so.

[creaky fossil]

Blah blah blah. Stuckie Lindahl, ladies and gentlemen. Your resident BC-based, UK-citizen, non-lawyer who opines on matters of US federal law.

You're not Seb Kemp by any chance, are you? You've got his arrogant "look how funny I am when being smug" attitude down cold, as well as the confidence riding on a hot air balloon's lift. You're awfully sure that you know the entire post-9/11 thicket of senseless assertions of federal power, eh? Gosh. You might even be smarter than kidwoo. Hell, you may even challenge rontele for emptiest suit on TGR!

I'm old and sometimes forgetful, but please: tell me where I said anyone had to "open a UK subsidiary" to do something. That couldn't have been a kidwoo-sized or rideit-shaped Pile O'Bullshit, could it?

[Harry]

Yet another TGR thread cunted up by Creepy Fossil....

[bern43]

OP. I don't know anything about immigration law, but I do know a very good immigration attorney that could tell you what's what (for a fee). I'd talk to a lawyer, but that's just me. And also, wrong forum. Had to be said. Should probably be in the padded room.

[Swine]

bern, PM his details if you would. The more research I do the more I'm figuring out we need to consult with an expert.

If an admin wants to move this go for it. But whatever, it's summer.

[bern43]

bern, PM his details if you would. The more research I do the more I'm figuring out we need to consult with an expert.

If an admin wants to move this go for it. But whatever, it's summer.

Just sent you a PM. Good luck!