Bindings: Marker Griffin vs. Look Pivot 14

**Dr. Lobotomy** · 04-01-2014, 04:36 PM

Haven't had to buy bindings since the days of my Dynaster S9's. Things have changed a bit...

Seems like I see the Markers everywhere. But, people also like the Looks.

Seem to get about the same reviews on the web.

Anything I should know before I choose blindly?

(Mounting them on a new pair of 185 Cochise's. I'm a big dude, 6'1" 240lbs).

**nickwm21** · 04-01-2014, 04:50 PM

The binding game is pretty easy these days. Everyone is making good stuff (solly, look, tyrolia, marker). Just pick your poison.

It is hard to beat the $160 sth13s on backcountry right now....

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**CaliBrit** · 04-01-2014, 05:38 PM

You. Will. Never. Notice. The. Difference.

**adrenalated** · 04-01-2014, 06:58 PM

At 240lbs I'd be looking at the higher DIN versions with more metal - Jester, FKS 180, STH16, etc. even if you don't need the high DIN. I've seen a few plastic Griffon/Baron heels break, especially with bigger dudes. Same with the plastic FKS 140 toe.

Otherwise they're all fine. I personally like the high elasticity of the FKS. But that's just me.

**auvgeek** · 04-01-2014, 07:26 PM

^^+1. FKS180/P18 would be advisable at your weight. Plus, the rumor is the metal toe has ~20% more elasticity than the 14 toe by design.

Maybe you're not hard on your gear, though.

**Dr. Lobotomy** · 04-01-2014, 08:57 PM

I'm horribly hard on my gear.
I wondered about the higher DIN settings. Anything over a 12 is ridiculous in all but a few elite situations. I used to ski btwn 10 and 12, but after blowing mg ACL a few years ago I ski around 9-9.5. I definitely prerelease often at 8 (found that out the hard way demoing skis this year). Seems to release appropriately at 9.5 and that's what the recommendation is for my size, age and skier type.

So is the beefier model solely to get the higherDIN, or is it the material of the binding and function at the same DIN?

**adrenalated** · 04-01-2014, 09:08 PM

DIN 9 = DIN 9 no matter what binding, in theory anyway. Yes, getting the binding rated to a higher DIN is solely to get a binding built from stronger and more durable materials.

It used to be that you could buy bindings made with the burly construction with a softer, DIN 14 or 15 spring in them. Salomon 997 (14 DIN, all metal) and FKS 155 (15 DIN, metal toe like the 18) come to mind. These are what I ski because I'm too light for the high DIN bindings yet have a tendency to wear through or break the plastic bindings quickly. Sucks that nobody makes them anymore.

**auvgeek** · 04-01-2014, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Lobotomy

So is the beefier model solely to get the higherDIN, or is it the material of the binding and function at the same DIN?

We're recommending it because of the latter. The 18 features an all-metal toe and superior design (ball and socket vs spreading wings in the 14 toe), which will serve you well. Even at 9.5 DIN. If you were 50# lighter, I don't think it would be worth the extra $$, but at your weight and being "horribly hard" on your gear, all-metal clamps sound like a winner to me. FKS/Pivot are my personal choice, but there are other all-metal designs. Sadly, nobody makes an all-metal 14 din version anymore.

IME, YMMV, etc.

Edit: ^^ beat me to it

**abraham** · 04-01-2014, 09:38 PM

Worth keeping in mind if you get new boots, the p18s are less adjustable than 916s. I think you said that you were getting back into skiing after a break so new boots might happen. Just something to think about.
If you are hard on gear seems worth getting metal bindings. I don't really need the din, but I had a run of breaking bindings in situations that didn't merit failure.

**XavierD** · 04-01-2014, 10:10 PM

I've run my P18s with rockered tech soles, no problems.

**skimaxpower** · 04-01-2014, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by nickwm21

It is hard to beat the $160 sth13s on backcountry right now....

There's your ticket. You won't regret it.

**flyman683** · 04-02-2014, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by XavierD

I've run my P18s with rockered tech soles, no problems.

And I'll add that mine, and quite a few others, don't work. So if AT boots might be in your future, the solly will accommodate you and maybe not the look.

**Dr. Lobotomy** · 04-02-2014, 01:39 AM

AT boots will not be in my future

**abraham** · 04-02-2014, 02:58 AM

I wasn't taking about touring boots, just that a new pair might be enough shorter/longer in bsl to require a remount if you mount without at least thinking about it.

**auvgeek** · 04-02-2014, 07:03 AM

^^Definitely worth noting. The range on FKS/Pivot is +/-7 mm and the range on Sally clamps is...+/- 10 mm? (Haven't used anything but FKS in years.)

If you think you're going to downsize in your next pair of ski boots, just mount them near the end of the range and you'll be fine with either. Not rocket surgery.

**alTAos** · 04-02-2014, 10:30 AM

this is what happens when you ski marker (didn't even fall till after the ejection): http://www.google.com/hostednews/get...SUONVEVMcYDmrQ

This is what happens when you ski look: http://www.planetski.eu/news/5927

end of conversation.

**Dr. Lobotomy** · 04-02-2014, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by alTAos

this is what happens when you ski marker (didn't even fall till after the ejection): http://www.google.com/hostednews/get...SUONVEVMcYDmrQ

This is what happens when you ski look: http://www.planetski.eu/news/5927

end of conversation.

I've dropped a ski like the first image a number of times with markers, typically around an 8 DIN. Very frustrating, especially in deep snow --> digging, wasted energy. Rarely, if ever happens, at a 9.5 DIN.

**alTAos** · 04-02-2014, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Lobotomy

I've dropped a ski like the first image a number of times with markers, typically around an 8 DIN. Very frustrating, especially in deep snow --> digging, wasted energy. Rarely, if ever happens, at a 9.5 DIN.

I've been on FKS 18 din bindings for about a decade now and can only think of one or two instances that i wanted my ski to release and it didn't. Or didn't want it to and it did. Well over 1000 days of skiing. They are incredible. Salomons are right there too. They both have amazing elastic range. IMO, nothing else out there compares when looking at elasticity and consistency of release. (Some people are interested in other factors...weight, adjustability, etc.)

**Dr. Lobotomy** · 04-02-2014, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by alTAos

I've been on FKS 18 din bindings for about a decade now and can only think of one or two instances that i wanted my ski to release and it didn't. Or didn't want it to and it did. Well over 1000 days of skiing. They are incredible. Salomons are right there too. They both have amazing elastic range. IMO, nothing else out there compares when looking at elasticity and consistency of release. (Some people are interested in other factors...weight, adjustability, etc.)

How do the Looks compare to the Rossi's and Solomon's in that regard?

**adrenalated** · 04-02-2014, 03:11 PM

Rossi bindings are just rebranded Looks. Same bindings.

**Dr. Lobotomy** · 04-02-2014, 04:00 PM

good to know. they look identical.

**alTAos** · 04-02-2014, 04:28 PM

Personally I like the FKS over the Salomon due to the pivot heel. This allows a more natural release and better heel retention in my mind. The toes are fairly similar in design. The published amount of elasticity are similar i think...although i haven't looked in a while. Both metal bindings are very good bindings. IMO, the FKS is slightly better. I was on Salomon for the 5 years prior to getting on FKS and liked them, but there's something about the pivot heel that I can't give up now.

There's a ton of info on both of these bindings spread throughout tech talk.

**Dr. Lobotomy** · 04-03-2014, 08:32 AM

Bought the pivot 18's on backcountry.com. Thanks for the input.

**CaliBrit** · 04-03-2014, 09:09 AM

Step 1 call Starthaus, step 2 get sth2 13's for less than a c-note.

Boom.

**melzor** · 02-15-2020, 07:35 PM

I just noticed my binding heel piece snapped and broke! I'm trying to figure out what to do and what piece could be replaced, and if I just need that actual heel cup part, and thus could get it off any other Griffon 13 binding, and just use my own brake and sole piece that fits my ski (116m underfoot).

Pretty annoyed as these have barely been skied on and I'm 125 lbs - and no warranty after 1 year?! No idea how this could have happened - defect for sure, some sort of weak point, anyone else this happen to would love to hear about.