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  1. #76
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    Sep 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    I've skied Luxury and ProTour liners on different boots back to back. They make a difference but not a substantial difference.
    I can agree with that. Downhill ski performance is pretty close between those, in my experience, as well.

  2. #77
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    Nov 2006
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    Bozeman
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    I put a Power Wrap in the Spectres and I really like how they ski at the area. Much stiffer but still a nice flex. I'll use the Spectre liners when I tour. Of course I'm coming from 30+ years of tele so what the hell do I know.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    276
    WMD- saw you compared flex to Titan UL, can you compare Spectre fit to Titans? Thanks.

  4. #79
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    Aug 2011
    Location
    Cascadia
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    525
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau
    I've skied Luxury and ProTour liners on different boots back to back. ....Of course, we can all agree to disagree.
    As I said, haven't skied the Pro Tour. Hasn't interested me enough to buy one yet as I don't envision it much of a touring liner compared to other lwt options. Figure we all are just reporting what we find in our own little worlds to the best of our abilities. If every one agreed you'd know something was wrong. Going from a PDG liner to a Palau wrap, which is at both ends of the liner spectrum, in a TLT6, ONE or a PDG makes things pretty obvious on the differences a liner can make for performance.
    Last edited by Dane1; 04-18-2014 at 12:11 AM.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
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    The land of beer, coffee, and world record snowpacks.
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    13
    OP checking in here. As noted previously I went with the Spectres and returned the TLT6Ps (due to cost mostly), so this is review at this point. My foot profile is duck shaped in plan view, high arch, high instep. Had a bootfitter mold the liner, punch the ankle bones (who knew I had big ankles?) at the pivots, and obviously, raise the instep. The ankle pivots rub a tiny bit from the punch but not enough to substantially affect freedom of movement. The instep helped but was not raised enough so I upped the ante while away from home and used a hair dryer and a coffee mug to increase the instep. My first boot punch and it worked flawlessly! I just used the handle of the mug (standard 8oz ceramic) to pull up while it was hot and shape what I thought were the tight areas.

    The boot skis good to begin with but became great once I adjusted the forward cant from 14 back to 10 degrees. The boot lacks the forward stiffness for a 14 degree cant and an 18 degree lean would be absurd. Besides, 10 is way more new-school and keeps me out of the back seat, reducing fatigue and injury opportunity. The progressive flex allows me to drive power forward into higher cant angles when I need it. As for driving, they are perfect with my 105 waist La Sportiva Hi5s but harder to handle when trying to pilot my 123-waist Moment Night Trains. Obviously this is a combo no one ever envisioned, but happened as a result of gear and airplane luggage impositions.

    Walking: I'm learning that sometimes ski mode is better when climbing steep neve or horrorshow volcanic scree. Who knew there was such a thing as too much articulation?

    Final note: I'm getting some weird numbness in my pinky toes when I tighten the boots. I call it weird because when I lock down the boots I don't feel tightness there, but after skiing a while those toes go to sleep. Anyone know the physiological cause? Never been a problem for me in any other boot.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    2,511
    I have no feedback to offer on the TLT6 v Spectre, but I own Vulcans and have upgraded (IMO) to Pro Tours from the stock liners. Before that, I was touring in Factors with power wraps. It was a big change moving to the Vulcans. The move to the Pro Tours was more incremental, but the PTs confirmed to my foot much better than the Palau's when heat molded. I have skied them back to back and the PTs feel like they walk a little easier and ski a little stiffer, but for me, the big difference between the two was how they responded to molding. Better conformance to my foot has meant better connection with the boot and better performance overall.

  7. #82
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    Sep 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonn-E View Post
    Final note: I'm getting some weird numbness in my pinky toes when I tighten the boots. I call it weird because when I lock down the boots I don't feel tightness there, but after skiing a while those toes go to sleep. Anyone know the physiological cause? Never been a problem for me in any other boot.
    The blood vessels and nerves that feed your toes start pretty far back on your feet. You probably have too much pressure somewhere thats cutting off blood supply or nerve feeling. The soft fleshy bit in front of the exterior ankle bone would be my first guess.

  8. #83
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    Nov 2006
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    Bozeman
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnfarmer View Post
    WMD- saw you compared flex to Titan UL, can you compare Spectre fit to Titans? Thanks.
    Turnfarmer,

    Out of the box (no molding) they both fit me really well and about the same. The liner on the Spectre may be thicker ( I haven't compared but going off what others have said) so the shell may be a bit wider? Again, out of the box they fit me just about the same. I am really liking the Spectre. Spent yesterday at Big Sky and the boots were awesome.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fairhaven
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    At the pivot or below? I've punched a number of TLT5/6's under the pivot without problem, including my own.
    The punch would have been just under and slightly in front of the pivot but very close to it. Maybe I'll go talk to the other boot fitter in my town, it's been over a year since I asked him last, maybe he's had more experience with the TLT5/6s and would have more confidence with the kind of work that I need.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    der town, WA
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason4 View Post
    The punch would have been just under and slightly in front of the pivot but very close to it. Maybe I'll go talk to the other boot fitter in my town, it's been over a year since I asked him last, maybe he's had more experience with the TLT5/6s and would have more confidence with the kind of work that I need.
    Make sure they know you're using it for a splitty. I've only punched a handful of boots, and was always hesitant to do work on a tech boot because I didn't have a binding to hold it while punching and was worried that It would end up out of alignment for tech bindings. That would be especially true for a thin boot like the tlt. Since you don't have to worry about the heel pin alignment, that should be less of a concern for you.

    I'd guess you would need to size up and use some combo of adding volume via a boot board/insole (added bonus of a warmer boot) and punches to make it work if your BD is too wide.

    Have you tried cutting a bit off the top of your BD's cuff to make it more flexible?

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fairhaven
    Posts
    35
    That's good advice about letting the fitter know that I don't need the tech heel fittings to line up.

    The BD isn't too wide, it actually fits my midfoot and if anything I'd be happy with just a little more room on my pinky toe.
    I have cut away a good amount of the cuff and can actually ride the boots decently, the next area to modify would be the lower shell so I get a little more flex down low especially around the heel. I'd really like the weight and touring benefit of the TLTs over the Primes and it's a bonus that they start out softer and don't need as much cutting to get them to ride well.

    Since you're in the area, do you have a favorite bootfitter for the TLTs in the Bellingham area?

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    der town, WA
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    103
    Well I don't know what tools the guys at BCE have to work with, but Kyle would be the one I'd suggest if he hasn't left to start working on Rainier yet. I'd take a look at it myself, but no more chalet means no tools for me to use...

    I seriously considered buying one of the presses from Noel before we closed but he wanted $$$ for it and I figured it would just be another piece of junk collecting dust in my closet and decided against it.

    BCE is going to start selling downhill stuff next year so I'd be surprised if they didn't start doing more boot work.

    If you want a serious bootfitter, you're going to have to go to Seattle. I don't think anyone here really does enough work on a consistent basis to get good at it. Not that it's rocket science, but it can be easy to fuck up if you aren't willing to go slow, and for a shop, time is $. It's nice to live in a smaller town, but it does have it's disadvantages...

  13. #88
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    Sep 2010
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    Zurich, Switzerland
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    Actually, I found my TLT5Ps with tongues stiffer than the One PXs when flexing in the shop the other day - maybe Pebax vs Grilamid in a warm environment? Gonna try to get them both out in the cold to get a better flex test. The walk mode was pretty close, but the One definitely had more friction and the tongue connection prevented some forward pivoting at the ankle. The One felt more like a ski boot - progressive, but was way too soft for me, compared to TLT5Ps with tongue.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Eburg
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    Flexing in shop? Meh. If you find the One PX "way too soft" don't expect a TLT5/6 to be the answer.

  15. #90
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    Sep 2010
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    The TLT5P with tongue is definitely stiffer in warm temperatures...

  16. #91
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
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    But not way stiffer, right? If you require way more stiffness than One PX, why not go Vulcan or Mercury?

    My experience is with the TLT5M and TLT6M, which ski similarly to the One PX, but I'll give the edge to One PX because IME it skis a bit stiffer, has more ballast and skis much more like a DH boot. All three ski fine for my style. I'm sure the P versions are stiffer fore-aft, but I can't see how the carbon cuff would make the Ps much stiffer laterally than the 5M/6M, which are crazy stiff laterally. Anyway, if you want a boot that tours/walks/scrambles/climbs like a TLT6P, adapt your style. It skis better than any AT boot available more than 5 or so years ago.

  17. #92
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    Sep 2010
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    Zurich, Switzerland
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    I'm still working on fit issues with the TLTs. I'm getting ahead of myself, but if I can't quite get it to fit, then I need to find a new boot. If the heel wasn't so damn narrow, I wouldn't even worry about it.

    On a side note, some microadjust at the top buckle would help too. I drilled an extra hole to move the ladder, so its closer, but not quite there yet. I might try that full tilt microadjust ladder that was suggested earlier.

  18. #93
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    Nov 2007
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    Eburg
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    I hope you work it out. The narrow heel is one of things many people like. Loving my TLT6Ms. Fun schmoo turns in them yesterday evening. We need a week of sun to consolidate the recent snowfall. Or maybe more snow and we'll wait a bit longer for spring touring season.

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Fairhaven
    Posts
    35
    d542east-
    I've talked most recently to Dave who has worked out of BCE and was highly recommended and also to Tierry at Fairhaven Bike and Sport who didn't hesitate to say no. I'll try on the 6 but I don't know how much hope there is based on the way the 5 fit my foot.

    Thanks for the advice!

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    351
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonn-E View Post
    Final note: I'm getting some weird numbness in my pinky toes when I tighten the boots. I call it weird because when I lock down the boots I don't feel tightness there, but after skiing a while those toes go to sleep. Anyone know the physiological cause? Never been a problem for me in any other boot.
    Just the 5th or the last 2-3? If the former, most likely mild compression of a branch of your sural nerve. My guess would be LDC, from somewhere just behind the lateral malleolus (big bump on the outside of your ankle). down, around, and forward along the side of your foot. Some stock liners have a little too much padding in this area. Try baking your liners with a small foam shim just behind that "ball" on the outside of your ankle, extending maybe 1-2cm below it. Worked for me. (If it's actually the last 2-3, then it's more likely IDC, put the shim forward of the LM, placement would be more guesswork though)

  21. #96
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    Mar 2014
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    The land of beer, coffee, and world record snowpacks.
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    13
    Now I am not so sure. I want to say it extended to my next two toes but if it's a difference between two nerves and two boot shell areas it is worth testing. What does LDC and IDC stand for?

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    351
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonn-E View Post
    Now I am not so sure. I want to say it extended to my next two toes but if it's a difference between two nerves and two boot shell areas it is worth testing. What does LDC and IDC stand for?
    Lateral dorsal cutaneous, intermediate dorsal cutaneous. I dunno, working the liner might offer an easier fix and I'm not sure how you'd "test" to see which is the culprit, other than trial and error. I'm no boot fitter (surprise), I just know what my issue was, that it sounded similar to yours, and what fixed it.
    Last edited by Huskydoc; 04-30-2014 at 11:48 AM.

  23. #98
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    Mar 2014
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    The land of beer, coffee, and world record snowpacks.
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    13
    I was just going to go skiing and note which toes went numb and feel for pressure in those target areas.

  24. #99
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    where the rough and fluff live
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    4,185
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    Just the 5th or the last 2-3? If the former, most likely mild compression of a branch of your sural nerve. My guess would be LDC, from somewhere just behind the lateral malleolus (big bump on the outside of your ankle). down, around, and forward along the side of your foot. Some stock liners have a little too much padding in this area. Try baking your liners with a small foam shim just behind that "ball" on the outside of your ankle, extending maybe 1-2cm below it. Worked for me. (If it's actually the last 2-3, then it's more likely IDC, put the shim forward of the LM, placement would be more guesswork though)
    My experience too. When adding some ankle-area padding to my alpine boots this season, I created that same numb little toe & 1-2 adjacent toes by over-padding below and in front of the lateral malleolus, looked up such numbness, found sural nerve sensitivity info. As I trimmed the padding away around the lateral malleolus, especially just beneath and just in front, the numbness went away. The first day caused longer-term numbness (2-3 wks) and 2 subsequent trimmings fixed it.

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    2
    Cold & numb in the toe box: me too
    wish I had gone up by 0.5 on the shell to 28.5.

    Still wondering how good the Spectre are as it drives the ski differently flex wise than a TLT5/6.
    since sportive Spectra is designed to retain and drive from the rear spine/cuff, linking the lower and upper shell like a 'L'.

    The more traditional design dynamite TLT 5/6 drives in most part from the front flex tongue which requires the shell to be a full cylindrical profile wrapping the leg. What worries me is that the Sprectre has no lower shell wrap ie 'C' shell profile lower, a full flex tongue with a full wrap upper cuff/shell. It's kind of like the rear entry tech from the '90's revisited... I am hoping that carbon cuff and spine provide rear L driven decent progressive flex, but I just don't feel it. I think it's more likely to bottom out flex wise sooner than the TLT6.

    TLT6 would be an easier, decision for me to buy were not 2x the price.

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