OFFICIAL I70 BITCH THREAD....

[Foggy_Goggles]

Colorado had 13-million skier visits last year. I figure most people use their season pass about 5 times ...at about 8% tax on a $600 season pass that would be about $10 in tax per visit. Lift tickets average about $120 these days. At 8% tax, that would also be about $10 per visit. At 13 million skier visits, we would pay for that lane in less than a year. with no increase in skier visits or the price of lift tickets or season passes, the state could pay for a $2 billion dollar capital improvement project over 15-20 years using lift ticket and season pass taxes alone.

What grade did you get in economics? Your are asking the ski resorts to bear 100% of the tax?

This thread plays like a broken record. The ski resorts and the mountains communities are operating at capacity during peak season as is. They have minimal interest in increasing the viability of day trips front the front range. That PBJ and Miller you have on the tailgate don't keep the lights on. We want you to spend the night, buy a condo, eat at a restaurant etc.

Once the discount season passes took hold, the whole economics changed. It is what it is. I'm not saying I70 shouldn't get a major upgrade, I'm saying that the only people who give two shits about days skiers sitting in traffic are day skiers sitting in traffic.

You front rangers need to own that. Until you are willing to either change your behavior or open up your own wallet, day skiing will continue to include a traffic nightmare.

[skiracer88_00]

What grade did you get in economics? Your are asking the ski resorts to bear 100% of the tax?

*You're

Read what I wrote again... I am asking for skiers to bear 100% of the tax, not the resorts. This could be accomplished by just charging sales tax on ski passes, like we do for everything else. I am certainly willing to open my wallet to fund major infrastructure improvements.

[Name Redacted]

*You're

Read what I wrote again... I am asking for skiers to bear 100% of the tax, not the resorts. This could be accomplished by just charging sales tax on ski passes, like we do for everything else. I am certainly willing to open my wallet to fund major infrastructure improvements.

Let's put a tax on hiking boots, mountain bikes, camping gear, and kayaks/rafts for those summer months!

[skiracer88_00]

Let's put a tax on hiking boots, mountain bikes, camping gear, and kayaks/rafts for those summer months!

there already is a sales tax on those items

[knumbskull]

Or maybe we could re-evaluate the gas tax so we could adequately fund transportation state wide. The funding and congestion problem isn't isolated to the I-70 mountain corridor, it is a state wide problem. I-70 is just one of the most visible illustrations of the greater issue. This effects everybody in this state whether or not they recreate in the mountains along the I-70 corridor. It's only going to get worse if we don't address the funding side of things.

[skiracer88_00]

Or maybe we could re-evaluate the gas tax so we could adequately fund transportation state wide. The funding and congestion problem isn't isolated to the I-70 mountain corridor, it is a state wide problem. I-70 is just one of the most visible illustrations of the greater issue. This effects everybody in this state whether or not they recreate in the mountains along the I-70 corridor. It's only going to get worse if we don't address the funding side of things.

Also a very good option. However, we all know that no new statewide taxes are viable under TABOR because Coloradans are cheap bastards who will allow the entire state to crumble before giving any more of their money to "the man".

[summit]

Colorado had 13-million skier visits last year. I figure most people use their season pass about 5 times ...at about 8% tax on a $600 season pass that would be about $10 in tax per visit. Lift tickets average about $120 these days. At 8% tax, that would also be about $10 per visit. At 13 million skier visits, we would pay for that lane in less than a year. with no increase in skier visits or the price of lift tickets or season passes, the state could pay for a $2 billion dollar capital improvement project over 15-20 years using lift ticket and season pass taxes alone.

Colorado sales tax is 2.9% not 8%... or are you proposing an excise tax as if it was a vice we want people to quit, like alcohol or smoking?
Even Breck doesn't tax season passes, only tickets.

What about these very relevant questions:

I am asking for skiers to bear 100% of the tax

Why are you only going to tax downhill skiers?
How does that address the summer problem or all the other winter I70 travelers?
Why not do a toll instead since that gets all travelers and encourages carpooling but per-person ticket taxes do not?
What about skiers who use these resorts but not I70?
And why are we taxing downhill skiers instead of first requiring winter travelers to have snow tires?

Are you aware that Vail, Snowmass and Mt. Crested Butte tax tickets? Did you know there is a 4.5% tax on Breckenridge lift tickets by the town of Breck and the controversy that has created when the town council decided to change its mind on how it was going to spend the multiple millions in taxes per year? Long story short, resort promised not to fight if the taxes first went towards skier parking infrastructure, for which there was a verbal understanding, then the town council decided it wanted to spend the money on sidewalks and roundabouts or something and has indefinitely delayed skier parking infrastructure. Any wonder why I have a healthy distrust for non-earmarked tax increases?

[knumbskull]

Also a very good option. However, we all know that no new statewide taxes are viable under TABOR because Coloradans are cheap bastards who will allow the entire state to crumble before giving any more of their money to "the man".

That's what everybody always says, and it is definitely true to a degree, but you have to at least try. Tax increases have passed before if you can make a solid case for it and ensure the money goes towards what people voted for, not just the general fund.

[Danno]

I'm not saying I70 shouldn't get a major upgrade, I'm saying that the only people who give two shits about days skiers sitting in traffic are day skiers sitting in traffic.

Yup, exactly.

[Foggy_Goggles]

with no increase in skier visits or the price of lift tickets or season passes

Honest question. If a lift ticket costs $120 with a 0% tax and then costs $120 inclusive of a new 8% tax, isn't the seller of the lift ticket going to then pay the full $9.60 is marginal tax?

I suck at grammar and spelling (C- ish) and I don't proof read on the internet. It's OK however, I'm I big boy...I can take it.

[summit]

Foggy hits the nail on the head

[skiracer88_00]

Honest question. If a lift ticket costs $120 with a 0% tax and then costs $120 inclusive of a new 8% tax, isn't the seller of the lift ticket going to then pay the full $9.60 is marginal tax?

I suck at grammar and spelling (C- ish) and I don't proof read on the internet. It's OK however, I'm I big boy...I can take it.

Usually sales taxes are added to a purchase price. If a lift ticket costs $120 and an 8% sales tax is added, the lift ticket would cost $129.60.

Obviously the price of the lift ticket would increase to the buyer on the first year. My point was that if skier visits remained constant and the base price of the lift ticket remained the same, $2 billion dollars could be raised over 15-20 years.

[summit]

Usually sales taxes are added to a purchase price. If a lift ticket costs $120 and an 8% sales tax is added, the lift ticket would cost $129.60.

Where is your 8% coming from? You realize if the state puts an 8% excise tax in, then that stacks on top of any local taxes, right? A $120 Breck ticket would be $136.80

[simple]

It is 7.65% in Denver and he is rounding up I bet. Factoring in the other common taxes. City, county, state, and RTD

[stfu&gbtw]

What's with all the breathless drama about how:

a. the taxes will be too high
b. the revenue will be too low
c. we won't tax everyone equitably

?

Like no one's ever tried to fund a highway project before...

Tax the roads, the services, the gas, the cars, the hotel rooms, the restaurants, and everything else you can think of. No one has to foot the whole bill... You native pricks are always talking about reducing the numbers. Guess what happens when you raise the price? Of course, you're the people who would stop coming, so I get that this doesn't create your Cartmantopia (TM) where they sell just enough tickets to provide the services you want... I'm sure you'll learn to enjoy ice-skating or something instead.

[adrenalated]

Usually sales taxes are added to a purchase price. If a lift ticket costs $120 and an 8% sales tax is added, the lift ticket would cost $129.60.

Obviously the price of the lift ticket would increase to the buyer on the first year. My point was that if skier visits remained constant and the base price of the lift ticket remained the same, $2 billion dollars could be raised over 15-20 years.

FWIW to help answer Foggy's question, when sales tax is required it is entirely up to the retailer how they want to collect it. They can add it onto the published price (what most consumer goods retailers do) or they can absorb it into the purchase price (like a gas station does, or how most retailers handle credit card transaction fees, or like I've seen some cash based businesses do to make the prices easy round numbers). In the case of lift tickets I suspect the retailers would choose to add it on top of the listed price because it allows them to advertise a lower price (this is what CB does with their local tax), but they would be able to do it either way. Regardless, prices would almost certainly increase for the consumer in order for the ski area to retain their same profitability.

Source: I own a business that is required to remit sales tax.

[stfu&gbtw]

^ Just came out of another public meeting, hearing what is becoming a very tired refrain... "Somebody ought to do something about that." In this case it was shooting... No one wants more firearms regulation, no one wants to pay more taxes to fund law enforcement or forest management... No one wants to do anything... But everyone has an expectation that someone's going to swoop in and fix their problems without making any changes they don't like. Listened to two people tonight who live on opposite sides of the same valley, neither of whom support a shooting ban throughout the valley - just near their own houses respectively. They both have the same problem, and neither has enough empathy, let alone common-fucking-sense to see the need to cooperate... From one letter: "is there any avenue to banning shooting in my neighborhood only?". That's a direct quote. It's insane. But sure... It's the government's fault...

[fastfred]

here you go clowns

sales tax increase for roads, seems the but fucker politicians can't figure out the difference between tax on gas and a tax on your wifes underware

EPIC fail will not pass in november

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/08...ortation-deal/

[wolfelot]

^^^^My first reaction is that this bill sounds ok. I hope it passes.

[summit]

here you go clowns

sales tax increase for roads, seems the but fucker politicians can't figure out the difference between tax on gas and a tax on your wifes underware

EPIC fail will not pass in november

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/08...ortation-deal/

Huge 21.4% increase in state sales tax rate (actual 0.62% increase) to piss off the conservatives... meanwhile vehicle registration fees get cut so car owners take a smaller relative portion of the burden and we institute a regressive general sales tax increase to piss off the liberals.

Well, I guess that is the definition of compromise.

The top priorities are the expansion of Interstate 70 through the mountains and widening of Interstate 25 north and south of Denver.

The $677 million in total transportation dollars outlined in the legislation would split into three buckets.

The majority of the money — $350 million — would go toward a payments on a potential $3.5 billion bond package.

The remaining share would be split with 70 percent to local governments for road improvements and 30 percent earmarked for transit-oriented projects.

The numbers they are throwing out don't seem to add up... confused by that.

[fastfred]

^^ from what I remember, cdot and the politicians have been arguing for the past few years, common sense says collect gas taxes and vehicle reg fees (I vote to double or triple the cost of hybrid/electric car reg fees but that's just me) collect the fees and taxes and complete work as the money rolls in. Cdot for some reason has been pushing bonds it seems they got their way. Don't remember all the specifics but this has been going on behind the scenes for years now

[Name Redacted]

They'll raise the taxes and use all the money to study what they should do to improve the problems around the state. By the end, they won't have any money left and we'll end up with another shoulder that they can charge you to drive on...sometimes.

[Name Redacted]

Here's your chance boys:

You're invited to attend our Westbound I-70 Mountain Corridor Concept Development Public Meeting! We want to hear from the community to help identify potential westbound improvements and understand perspectives around critical issues of the corridor. The meeting will be held at the Clear Creek Recreation Center on Tuesday, March 14 from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. We look forward to seeing you there!

https://www.codot.gov/…/i-70mou…/con...opment-process

[wkd-rdr]

In other news, CDOT signage stating that the left lane is a passing lane has decreased left lane loungers by 0%

[adrenalated]

I would like to thank CDOT for the rolling 30mph snowplow cockblock down from the tunnel this morning, clearing non-existent snow from the road and spreading gravel and large rocks everywhere.