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  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    IMO... sell them and get Jeffrey 114s instead. I know they're wider, but they're quite a bit stiffer and more substantial.
    Or find last year's Jeffrey in a 186cm, if you can.

    I played around with mounting points a bit on the older Jeffrey with demo bindings, which has the same elliptical sidecut as the Kartels. I thought that the ski was remarkably tolerant of moving the mount point 2-3cm. The ON3P guys said (and this makes sense) that since the elliptical sidecut is nearly straight underfoot and arcs tighter in the tip and tail, there's a larger than normal sweet zone for mount points as your boot is still pretty much in the "center" of the sidecut. So I don't think mounting at -2cm would negatively affect the ski... but I'm also not sure it would solve your complaints with them. Kinda sounds like they're just too soft for how you want to ski.
    Spot the fuck on. TexasGoretex, A lot of folks love the Kartel 98, but with your size you may be happier charging on the 114 (I ride the 114 186 as my everyday ski and am 5'10", 200lbs), or the Wren 102 (more directional and flatter tail = longer running length). Not to delay, but if you truly wanted a 191 you will see some in models next year that don't exist this year, too.

    You could go 1-2 cm back on that ski you own and still have good edge hold with our sidecut, but then you get closer to the tail rocker and wheelie city. It would handle the remount, I have no doubts about that.

    Just food for thought.
    You should have been here yesterday!

  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Recommending that he replace a ski that is 98mm underfoot (S3) with one that is 120mm underfoot (Caylor) seems like a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
    Stop being a bitch.
    You should have been here yesterday!

  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowTron View Post
    Stop being a bitch.
    Are you going to have anything fun for me to try on Saturday that I haven't already skied, beater?

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by unpossible View Post
    Was poking around the website and noticed some actual dates for the NorCal demo days. iggy or PowTron, any ideas on a location yet? Thanks.
    Not sure yet, but I know they are still planned!
    You should have been here yesterday!

  5. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowTron View Post
    I'll be there as early as fuckwad I-70 allows me to. Count on me being there for your first run
    Sweet! Stoked!

  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowTron View Post
    We are hearing feedback on multiple fronts...spurning drunken design discussions in the near future.
    Very nice.

  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Are you going to have anything fun for me to try on Saturday that I haven't already skied, beater?
    I have a pair of 176 Filthy Rich with your name on them
    You should have been here yesterday!

  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by thaar View Post
    Sweet! Stoked!
    Anything in particular you are looking to try?
    You should have been here yesterday!

  9. #359
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    Wren 102's are top on my list. I'm looking to replace/add to my Cochise's. Something for hardpack days - directional charger, but interested to see how playful they are as well.

    Conditions aren't looking to be optimal, but I'm also interested in comparing the BG's to my Bibby Pro's too.

  10. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by thaar View Post
    Wren 102's are top on my list. I'm looking to replace/add to my Cochise's. Something for hardpack days - directional charger, but interested to see how playful they are as well.

    Conditions aren't looking to be optimal, but I'm also interested in comparing the BG's to my Bibby Pro's too.
    Sweet, see you there.
    You should have been here yesterday!

  11. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    IMO... sell them and get Jeffrey 114s instead. I know they're wider, but they're quite a bit stiffer and more substantial.
    Or find last year's Jeffrey in a 186cm, if you can.

    I played around with mounting points a bit on the older Jeffrey with demo bindings, which has the same elliptical sidecut as the Kartels. I thought that the ski was remarkably tolerant of moving the mount point 2-3cm. The ON3P guys said (and this makes sense) that since the elliptical sidecut is nearly straight underfoot and arcs tighter in the tip and tail, there's a larger than normal sweet zone for mount points as your boot is still pretty much in the "center" of the sidecut. So I don't think mounting at -2cm would negatively affect the ski... but I'm also not sure it would solve your complaints with them. Kinda sounds like they're just too soft for how you want to ski.
    I'm not totally sure that stiffness alone is the answer; The S3 hand flexes in the same ballpark as Kartel. I'd prefer a slightly stiffer S3 but it still gets the job done as is. The Rossi is about 4cm shorter than the Kartel and slightly softer, yet is significantly more stable. The Kartels become more stable if I ski way way into the back seat, but I don't ski confidently that way.

    If you lay the skis side by side, aligned at the rec mounting point... The tips are the same length, the running length is the same length, the tail rocker starts at the same point, but the Kartel tails are about 4cm longer.

    I'm not opposed to going with a wider ski, but I'd prefer something over 190cm if I do. I put some quiver information at the end of the post. I'd been planning on replacements for my 98mm and 118mm skis. Perhaps I should replace them both with one.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Yeah at 6'4" you need a bigger ski mate. Not a new mount point.

    Sell them and get a 191 something.
    Agreed, but not many companies sell huge ass skis. It's hard to find a relatively soft playful ski in enormous sizes. I'd have bought the Rossignol S3 in a 195cm in a heartbeat if they made it. I don't normally prefer pure chargers.
    Quote Originally Posted by unpossible View Post
    191 Caylors from last year sound like they could work.
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Recommending that he replace a ski that is 98mm underfoot (S3) with one that is 120mm underfoot (Caylor) seems like a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
    I'm not opposed to going wider, but 120mm might leave my quiver with some gaps. It certainly wouldn't be a direct replacement at any rate. Quiver info at the end of the post.
    Quote Originally Posted by PhiberAwptik View Post
    Reality: The Kartel 98 is a wider park ski, and it's advertised as such. You bought the wrong ski. Probably would have been better off on the 106, or even a Wren 102.
    I wasn't able to demo them, and I knew buying them blind was a risk. If I have to eat it, I eat it. I don't think it was THAT bad an idea though. The skis are kinda-sorta similar on paper, and I really love one of ON3P's other jibby skis (Pillowfight).
    Length Front Rocker Rear Rocker Turning Radius
    S3
    128-98-118
    182.5cm 39cm 32cm 23m
    Kartel
    128-98-121
    186cm 40.5cm 40.5cm 21.1m

    It's also worth mentioning the Kartels are more stable skiing in the backseat. I just don't ski well with my ass hanging over my tails.


    Quote Originally Posted by PowTron View Post
    Spot the fuck on. TexasGoretex, A lot of folks love the Kartel 98, but with your size you may be happier charging on the 114 (I ride the 114 186 as my everyday ski and am 5'10", 200lbs), or the Wren 102 (more directional and flatter tail = longer running length). Not to delay, but if you truly wanted a 191 you will see some in models next year that don't exist this year, too.

    You could go 1-2 cm back on that ski you own and still have good edge hold with our sidecut, but then you get closer to the tail rocker and wheelie city. It would handle the remount, I have no doubts about that.

    Just food for thought.
    I'd prefer something longer than a 186cm in a wider ski. My original plan was to buy the 98s this year and the 191cm 106's when they are available next year. Perhaps I need to get the Jeffrey instead.

    I don't typically have problems with wheelie city; I'm more of an over-the-bars kind of guy.

    Current quiver:
    192cm Dynastar FIS GS skis (28m radius)
    -like: no speed limit, unlimited grip, completely different kind of fun than my usual floppy fun shape preference
    -dislike: they try to kill you while you sleep
    -I wouldn't want to ski them every day, but they are a blast in the right conditions. Once in a while.
    186cm Rossignol S3
    -like: amazing float for width, fun, carve well, forgiving, easy skiing
    -dislike: relatively low speed limit, too short
    -I like these despite their length, but they are due for replacement. I wish they made a 195cm or even a "Super 3"
    195cm Rossignol Super 7
    -like: stable, hardpack performance (for their width), higher speed limit
    -dislike: too short, I frequently go over the bars in powder even mounted -1.5, hooky in certain conditions
    -planned on being replaced next year
    196cm ON3P Pillowfights (first gen)
    -like: everything
    -dislike: they aren't appropriate for groomer days, but sometimes I use them anyway

    I'm definitely in the market for some 191s next year, maybe Jeffries. Just not sure if I should try to salvage these with a remount or just ride out the season on my beat old skis.

    Thanks for the help guys.

  12. #362
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    Yeah, given all that, I'd say a 191cm Jeffrey 114 (which I think I read will exist year) would be pretty ideal. Problem is the "next year" part.

    PowTron may skewer me for saying this in an ON3P thread, but a 193cm Praxis MVP could also fit the bill with more instantaneous gratification possible.

  13. #363
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    I was thinking the the above but didn't want to jack the ON3P thread.
    Last edited by 2FUNKY; 01-12-2015 at 08:59 PM.

  14. #364
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    Tex—replace the Super 7s with 191 Billy Goats. Just do it.

    193 MVP sounds like a decent replacement of the Kartel. It's too bad the Piste Jib doesn't come in a 19X. Do you like tail rocker and/or ski switch? If not, the 194 Freeride or 191 9D8 in a medium flex might be work...?
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  15. #365
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    The main reason I don't have Billy Goats is because they don't come in a 195cm. The Super 7s measure 192cm and feel too short to me (tip dive, over-the-bars are problems). Replacing them with a 191cm (even with a longer running length) doesn't really address my major complaint. My Pillowfights at 196cm feel about the right length for my preferences. I know it sounds like I want ludicrously long skis, but I'm tall. There is no shortage of 5'10" guys who prefer skis in the 190s. Comparatively, I'm actually being kind of conservative. At least that's what I tell myself!

    I do like tail rocker, and I do ski switch some. I prefer a raised tail. I've been having a blast on fun shaped skis. I generally prefer playful over burly, medium over stiff flex.

    I need to try and find a way to demo the Jeffrey and Goat. Probably the MVP too. I missed Powtron by a single day (again!) because I travel to ski. Struck out renting some demos last year because the shop never got their shit together. I noticed they are no longer a dealer this year.

    I think the answer will most likely be the replace BOTH the S3 and S7 with a 191cm Jeffrey 114 in my quiver. Next year.

  16. #366
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    FWIW the 191 Billy Goat should feel substantially longer than a 195 Super7 on snow. I'm basing this on having skied both the "188" Super7 and the 186 Billy Goat and the BG definitely skis longer. As you probably know, the 191 BG will actually measure 191cm. Obviously I don't know you and how you ski, but I wouldn't automatically write off the BG as being too short. Demoing would be wise for sure.

  17. #367
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    Demoing is definitely a priority to figure out what to do for my next pair.

    Still debating trying a new mount on the Kartels vs straight selling.

  18. #368
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    Sorry for clogging up the thread with sour grapes... I offer this picture to keep the stoke up.


  19. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGortex View Post
    Sorry for clogging up the thread with sour grapes... I offer this picture to keep the stoke up.

    That is creeping me out...I have the same jacket, same color pants, and the same color helmet. I also ski Grizzlycorn topped Jeffrey 114's. Woah.................................good thing I am the Liberache of skiing so I can wear something different if we ever ride together, haha.

    As for skis, you will not go over the handlebars on a 191 BG. It skis (and measures) longer than a 195 Rossi. I ski 191 BG's for big mountain and Powder and ski very forward and have never had the over the handlebars feeling. And yes, there will be 191 in Kartel 106 and Jeffrey 114 next year, 100% for sure.

    With the Kartel 98 it is surprising me you feel you have to ski it in the backseat, but perhaps you are not comfortable on the mount position (mentioning the extra tail length when comparing). No shame in that, may just be a preference thing.
    Last edited by PowTron; 01-14-2015 at 05:35 PM.
    You should have been here yesterday!

  20. #370
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    REMINDER: Demo at Loveland tomorrow, 1/17...also looks like we will have a demo on 1/31 at Loveland with the first peek at the 15/16 skis.
    You should have been here yesterday!

  21. #371
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    Saw some Girzzlycorns w/ green binders, today at Alpine Meadows. Anybody here?

  22. #372
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    To add to the advice for TG.

    Scrap the rossis. Comparing rossignol to on3p skis is like comparing o'douls to trippel bag when you're trying to get drunk on good beer.

    Super 7 becomes a billy goat. That's a safe, mindless decision.

    S3 becomes a wren 102. Or a k106, maybe. I totally understand the "ass over the tails" stability issue. I have the same issue with the caylor. That issue will likely vanish with the wren.

    I've been rocking the 193 mvp. A little big for a park/bumps ski for me (6' 165), but It is still awesome. I rail the tips with impunity.

    Pm me if you want to go the praxis route. I am a big fan of both companies, but I want a playful ish ski in the 110mm category without symmetric tip and tail rocker. I know the mvp is close to the Jeff, but I think for me, having slightly longer tip rocker is the difference between feeling like I have to backseat it and getting to Rail the tips.
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    for me, having slightly longer tip rocker is the difference between feeling like I have to backseat it and getting to Rail the tips.
    I don't understand how adding an 8 cm more tip rocker allows you to "rail the tips" better except in powder.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  24. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowTron View Post
    That is creeping me out...I have the same jacket, same color pants, and the same color helmet. I also ski Grizzlycorn topped Jeffrey 114's. Woah.................................good thing I am the Liberache of skiing so I can wear something different if we ever ride together, haha.

    As for skis, you will not go over the handlebars on a 191 BG. It skis (and measures) longer than a 195 Rossi. I ski 191 BG's for big mountain and Powder and ski very forward and have never had the over the handlebars feeling. And yes, there will be 191 in Kartel 106 and Jeffrey 114 next year, 100% for sure.

    With the Kartel 98 it is surprising me you feel you have to ski it in the backseat, but perhaps you are not comfortable on the mount position (mentioning the extra tail length when comparing). No shame in that, may just be a preference thing.
    Twins!

    I will absolutely jump at the opportunity to ski a 191cm BG. I just don't want to buy a set without demoing. I believe they ski significantly longer than my Super 7s, but I don't know if they will be long enough. One day, I might actually be in town when you are and I'll find out. Wilderness Exchange is the only listed dealer in CO (Denver unfortunately), and they only have a 186cm BG.

    I'm hoping it's just the mount position making me uncomfortable. That would be the best news! Unfortunately the consensus seems to be it's a little bit of everything (length, flex, design, etc). It'll be a little over two weeks before I'm back in CO, so I have plenty of time to decide if I want to even try a -2 mount.

  25. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    To add to the advice for TG.

    Scrap the rossis. Comparing rossignol to on3p skis is like comparing o'douls to trippel bag when you're trying to get drunk on good beer.

    Super 7 becomes a billy goat. That's a safe, mindless decision.

    S3 becomes a wren 102. Or a k106, maybe. I totally understand the "ass over the tails" stability issue. I have the same issue with the caylor. That issue will likely vanish with the wren.

    I've been rocking the 193 mvp. A little big for a park/bumps ski for me (6' 165), but It is still awesome. I rail the tips with impunity.

    Pm me if you want to go the praxis route. I am a big fan of both companies, but I want a playful ish ski in the 110mm category without symmetric tip and tail rocker. I know the mvp is close to the Jeff, but I think for me, having slightly longer tip rocker is the difference between feeling like I have to backseat it and getting to Rail the tips.
    It's worth noting that I like the S3 more than the Kartel right now. Rossi makes (some) good skis. ON3Ps are better in my opinion, but that doesn't make all Rossis shitty. Sometimes a Budweiser does the trick too. Regardless, I'm still game to replace both the S3 and S7 with ON3P. It was my original plan, and just needs a little tweaking.

    Can you elaborate on Caylor issues you had? Was it a mount point issue? Too much tail rocker? Flex? Did you find a solution or just a different ski? This could be really helpful to my Kartel predicament. Thanks.

    I respectfully disagree that a Billy Goat is a safe mindless decision as a replacement for a Super 7. I have little doubt they are better than the Super 7, but that doesn't necessarily make them right for me. I'm open to it, but would like to demo. I don't think you'd want to automatically buy the same size ski as a 5'8" 150lbs guy. You'd flat out have different needs just based on leverage, weight, body mechanics etc. If he loved the 186s, you'd probably buy the 191s. The ski may accommodate both people, or it may not. I've been burned repeatedly trying to make short skis work for me, so I'm going to be a little gun-shy dropping big bucks on skis.
    Last edited by TexasGortex; 01-18-2015 at 11:20 AM.

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