2014/2015 ON3P Skis (Official Thread) - Discussion and Lust

[TexasGortex]

I am going to be touring on the new CD. I really only tour for powder so I can justify that in my mind...it is very lite-weight for a ski that size.

(these are all the justifications going on in my head in silence) hahaha

In line with the J114 (slightly more due to more material, but that is the closest comparison).

Thanks. I'll have to demo a pair.

[adrenalated]

I am going to be touring on the new CD. I really only tour for powder so I can justify that in my mind...it is very lite-weight for a ski that size.

(these are all the justifications going on in my head in silence) hahaha

You should put nice lightweight bindings like Guardians on there too.

[cooks]

I think 916s and day wrekkers would be even better.

[adrenalated]

Fuck it, he should just posthole/snowshoe in alpine boots.

[TexasGortex]

I have guardians with alpine boots on those Pillowfights. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but my pace was also pretty leisurely. Couple hours up of side country.

I was in Japan! So much excitement! I was totally convinced I was going to CRUSH IT. Turned out it didn't snow, a bunch of Australians beat me to it, and my wife was on the better skis that day. I downsized skis later that afternoon.

[ScrewYou]

Cant believe you guys are making a wren 88!! Will be picking up a set of those next season

[ffmedic84]

Cant believe you guys are making a wren 88!! Will be picking up a set of those next season

Should probably just sell me your Jeffreys now to make room for them

[ScrewYou]

Should probably just sell me your Jeffreys now to make room for them

Im never selling the jeffreys..

Billy goats or viciks maybe

[CaliBrit]

Next year to buy. For Demo...extremely soon.

Dibs on a demo! Would even host a Mag's demo day (read switch skis at lift line) at Kirkwood/Alpine if we could make that happen.

[jvskinn]

Im never selling the jeffreys..

Billy goats or viciks maybe

Curious about this, my almost everyday ski is a 181 Jeffrey 110mm waist, and I love it, wouldn't trade it for anything, but I've been thinking about getting a BG for pow days. Do you think there's too much overlap between the skis? Why sell the BG but keep the Jeffrey? A lot of the great things I've read about the BG also apply to the Jeffrey so I've been wondering.

[adrenalated]

Compared to Jeffery, the BG is:
-looser in pow
-hooks less in funky 3D snow
-floats better
-mounted more aft, therefore the front of the ski can be driven harder, especially in chop
-not as easy to spin
-won't carve as precisely on hardpack
-can't be skied from the backseat, especially on hardpack

I don't think they really overlap that much, the Jeffrey is a wide jib ski that skis any kind of snow pretty well, whereas the BG is a playful directional ski that is biased towards soft snow.
(Note - I don't own Jeffreys, but have skied them. I think they're an excellent example of the genre but I'm not too into the jibby center-mounted feel.)

[jvskinn]

Compared to Jeffery, the BG is:
-looser in pow
-hooks less in funky 3D snow
-floats better
-mounted more aft, therefore the front of the ski can be driven harder, especially in chop
-not as easy to spin
-won't carve as precisely on hardpack
-can't be skied from the backseat, especially on hardpack

I don't think they really overlap that much, the Jeffrey is a wide jib ski that skis any kind of snow pretty well, whereas the BG is a playful directional ski that is biased towards soft snow.
(Note - I don't own Jeffreys, but have skied them. I think they're an excellent example of the genre but I'm not too into the jibby center-mounted feel.)

Exactly what I was looking for, thanks!

Now I just need someone buy the Lotus 120's and Factions I'm selling in gear swap so I can jump on some BGs.

[TahoeJ]

Curious about this, my almost everyday ski is a 181 Jeffrey 110mm waist, and I love it, wouldn't trade it for anything, but I've been thinking about getting a BG for pow days. Do you think there's too much overlap between the skis? Why sell the BG but keep the Jeffrey? A lot of the great things I've read about the BG also apply to the Jeffrey so I've been wondering.

I used to own the 181 Jeffrey that was 110mm. Loved it, but then I got 186cm Billy Goats and found myself always using them and so I sold the Jeffrey's. So they definitely overlap to some degree, IMO, but it depends on how jibby / switch oriented you are (which I am not, I prefer a directional feel). On the other hand, I did buy some Wren 112's because they're a different type of ski and I'm rarely conflicted about which one to use on certain days. The Jeffrey's were better on hard pack than the BG so I would use them for dust on crust type days, but for me the Wren 112 made a lot more sense for that purpose.

So the answer is: it depends. ;-)

[galibier_numero_un]

Anyone have the lowdown on Loveland Demo days? On the ON3P site, their calendar shows February 7th.

Is the safe bet to bring alpine boots? Looking at Billy Goats, Steeples and Wrens.

Thanks,
Thom

[adrenalated]

Powtron is the man to confirm the date. Bring alpine boots

[jvskinn]

I used to own the 181 Jeffrey that was 110mm. Loved it, but then I got 186cm Billy Goats and found myself always using them and so I sold the Jeffrey's. So they definitely overlap to some degree, IMO, but it depends on how jibby / switch oriented you are (which I am not, I prefer a directional feel). On the other hand, I did buy some Wren 112's because they're a different type of ski and I'm rarely conflicted about which one to use on certain days. The Jeffrey's were better on hard pack than the BG so I would use them for dust on crust type days, but for me the Wren 112 made a lot more sense for that purpose.

So the answer is: it depends. ;-)

Sounds like the worst case scenario is that I like the Billy Goats too much

[galibier_numero_un]

Powtron is the man to confirm the date. Bring alpine boots

That was my guess on both points. Thanks, I'll PM Powtron.

For anyone who's interested, here are the details on the Loveland site: http://skiloveland.com/events/?cid=m...9266&mc_id=241

... Thom

[Nevada29er]

Is there going to be another run of 189 BGs this year?

If so, will they be 15/16 or 16/17 sidecut? Hopefully the later.

[PowTron]

Loveland demo on 2/7 as stated.

Yep, alpine boots. See you there.

[PowTron]

Nevada29er,
Not sure on additional 189, but if we do it will be the 15/16. Great to lust after new gear, but it's not available for the general public until next season

[galibier_numero_un]

Thanks Powtron,

You guys are whipping me into a frenzy over this. As I read through this entire thread, some parallel thinking (with people's whose preferences seem to line up with mine) began to unfold.

I've been debating the next arrow in the quiver: choosing between either a mid-width touring ski (Steeple 102/112 or an ultralight Freeride or Backcountry), vs. filling in the other end with an all out powder ski (C&D or Protest). This is to compliment my Atomic Automatic 109's and GPO's (both in 182). I'm 5'9" & 170Lbs and don't do mach looney.

Like Superchicken, I've been mulling over the option of re-purposing Automatics (rather than my GPO's, since the Automatics are the softer of the two) with some tech bindings, and I've already installed inserts in them.

With the comments in this thread about the Goats, I think this (in combo with the GPO's and some old school skis like original Coombas which still have a lot of life), might fill out my lift served quiver nicely. I'm getting ahead of myself. Next Sunday's demo will tell me alot.

What's also apparent, is that I'd get more use out of the Goats than C&D's or Protests, while at the same time, giving me better deep snow performance than my GPO's.

My only conundrum here in Colorado is that there's always a part of the day when I'm in tight trees, so length choice will be tricky, but if I were to guess, I'd wait on backordered 184's. They'd definitely be quicker than my non-rockered, 181 Combas, even if they're not quite as quick as the 182 GPO's and Automatics.

Next weekend, the Goats and Steeples ought to tell me what I need to know. Having gone through this entire thread, the following comments really jumped out at me (there were others as well, but I lost track of them) and I thought it might benefit someone else, so here goes ...

Just had my first day on some 2015 186 BGs ... Definitely think the float better than my 187 GPOs, need to ski those two back to back soon.

Much as I still want the C&D, I have yet to sink my goats...

With both mounted on the line, the 191 goat has WAY better float than the 192 GPO. GPO is a little quicker edge to edge and a little snappier in tight spaces. Less demanding in bumps. I've converted the GPO to a touring ski (because they are predictable in anything and easier to shut down than the BG) and use the BG for soft in bounds days.

I skied mine today. My first year on BG's (or any ON3P ski) and probably 4th day so far. While the tips a super loose and surfy, straight outta the factory they had felt a little grabby just behind the rockered part of the tip and under foot, so I took a gummy stone to 'em and wow, they felt dialed today. I'm sure 12-18" of fresh helps too but even on the more firm skied out stuff they just felt smoother and more predictable. So fun... Approaching Protest effortlessness - super easy and quick to transition but easier to lay over and more locked in when you need it, which is exactly what I was looking for. They are really growing on me.

Cheers,
Thom

[galibier_numero_un]

Building a line is one of my favorite things to do, but there is definitely frustration at times. That is internally too. Our interests change over time as well, but that is part of the fun. I do think sometimes people aren't completely realistic with minor changes between skis. Functionally, the difference between 98 vs 102 underfoot, or 189cm vs 191cm, is minor in performance, but it is very large in terms of perceived function (and with so many options these days, it is already difficult to compete in this business). Right or wrong, it is what it is, so it is one element that has to play into design decisions.

Here's my take...Actual function? Similar skis. Perceived function? Different skis. A lot of people on here know that two skis, identical besides one being +4mm wider overall, will be very similar in how they ski. But as far as buying skis goes, many people aren't in the know and as such, the Wren 112 doesn't make it into a lot of conversations where people are looking for a 105-110 directional ski. It's too wide, and thus the mental gap is too far for many to view it as a viable option (even if everything else - flex, sidecut, weight, rocker - match).

Second consideration here is we are trying to stop certain models from competing with each other. Case in point, the BG and Wren 112. Very different skis, but one of our most asked ski comparison questions on the wider end. Different skis, but currently competing in the same space.

So, as performance between the two models would be very similar, what would the Wren 108 achieve over a Wren 112? Similar ski, on brand, same performance characteristics, but finally competes in the space most people are buying in? Easy answer - more sales.

Brilliant insight Scott. Before I split up with my partner in my audio business, I was in constant conflict with him, by advocating the same position you take - that a product has to earn it's keep, not confuse the customer, and not overlap with other products to the point where the customer suffers from paralysis from analysis. In the end, they'll always be wondering if they bought the right product, even when they were choosing between two very good options. At some point, you have to make some decisions for the customer, which of course involves the "L" word ... listening

Cheers,
Thom

[Nevada29er]

Nevada29er,
Not sure on additional 189, but if we do it will be the 15/16. Great to lust after new gear, but it's not available for the general public until next season

To quote a well known movie, "If you build it, they will come..."

[optics]

In for the wren 88 and 108.

Any chance of a presale deal like the old days?

[mtnjam]

You guys rock!

I saw what you did for the Dear Jack Foundation and for one of their patient's.

That says a lot about your company and the integrity all you guys at ON3P.