Independence Pass 2.15.14

[EK3]

I'd say that quote sticks out. Will be interesting to see the relative knowledge of the rest of the group once that info is out in the public.

That quote could NOT be further from truth. Both guys had many years of BC experience!!!! That is a completely false claim!

[glademaster]

That quote could NOT be further from truth. Both guys had many years of BC experience!!!! That is a completely false claim!

This. A friend of the two victims who I know out here claims they were both experienced and educated backcountry travelers.

[Hugh Conway]

It is time for people to dial back their goals and aspirations for a little while until conditions improve and stick to less consequential terrain.

that message will never get through without a change of culture.

[Grizzled]

Terrible tragedy for these men, their travel companions, friends, families and local community.

As you youngins say - vibes to all.

[deeppo]

I do feel like there is something to this story that is not known yet. It really just does not make sense that 7 people were caught on a giant slide path late in the afternoon in high avalanche conditions. Condolences to everyone involved.

[Lone Star]

Summit needs attention. Always has. Always will. Gotta be first on scene.

when i got in over my head a few years ago, resulting in a SAR call out, he was indeed one of the first to arrive on scene. I can't say that I felt like he got his ass there in a hurry because he needed attention---- he got there fast because in a small community there's a good chance it's one of your friends that you are going to be helping out.

[simplypow]

thanks to those who posted the sheep creek tar, and fuck me I just totally sharted

[whipski]

tick, tick, tick

[MagnificentUnicorn]

That quote could NOT be further from truth. Both guys had many years of BC experience!!!! That is a completely false claim!

I have many years bc experience but know fuck all about Colorado, I think that is what made the quote stick out. It said they weren't familiar with THAT terrain not that they weren't experienced.

[COpow]

I have many years bc experience but know fuck all about Colorado, I think that is what made the quote stick out. It said they weren't familiar with THAT terrain not that they weren't experienced.

This.

12345

[Lindahl]

Maybe they weren't planning on skiing that line, but do you really have to be familiar with the terrain to say no thanks, considering the conditions? If so, you might want to rethink whether you should be in the backcountry. From events I'm familiar with 'experienced in backcountry' is thrown around WAY more often than it should be. There's also a lot of people I know, who, if they were in an accident tomorrow, many would say the same about them, even if it'd be pretty far from the truth (in my opinion). Not saying it was the case here, but the circumstances definitely makes one wonder.

[spiff361]

That quote could NOT be further from truth. Both guys had many years of BC experience!!!! That is a completely false claim!

"I do feel like there is something to this story that is not known yet. It really just does not make sense that 7 people were caught on a giant slide path late in the afternoon in high avalanche conditions. Condolences to everyone involved."

Time will show that there is nothing more to this story apart from poor decisions and that although there was some experience it is hyperbole to indicate that there was enough back country experience in the group, especially as two of the locals only recently moved to the area when they took over the business.

and wouldn't the claim of many years experience, however valid, be thrown out the door the minute they approached the situation with the very clear and present warnings?

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Maybe they weren't planning on skiing that line, but do you really have to be familiar with the terrain to say no thanks, considering the conditions? If so, you might want to rethink whether you should be in the backcountry. From events I'm familiar with 'experienced in backcountry' is thrown around WAY more often than it should be. There's also a lot of people I know, who, if they were in an accident tomorrow, many would say the same about them, even if it'd be pretty far from the truth (in my opinion). Not saying it was the case here, but the circumstances definitely makes one wonder.

Well there is this too. Well said.

[JoeStrummer]

I don't even have 6 friends, much less 6 other backcountry skiing friends I could get on the same 40 degree slope on a high avy danger day in mid-winter. This just makes me fucking sad.

RIP. Inexperience and experience seem to get us killed in equal measure in this game. I don't think it really even matters anymore.

[fastfred]

With the conditions we have in many places throughout the Rockies right now, most people lack the skills to mitigate the hazards that exist.

Safe skiing techniques will only mitigate the hazard to the point that one person may be caught/killed.

It is time for people to dial back their goals and aspirations for a little while until conditions improve and stick to less consequential terrain.

well said thanks

[newbreak]

That terrain during this type of avy danger... to manage it you have to thread a tiny fu*king needle, doesn't matter how experienced or inexperienced of a BC traveler you are, your margin of error is miniscule and right now probably more like Nonexistent.

IMHO. That looks like high stakes terrain and many calories were endeavored to get up there, not just a lazy day tour. Unless the accident happened while crossing one of the runouts lower in the valley..triggered from below. Do we know these detail yet?

Just because you do compression tests and dig a pit, it doesn't tell the story at all, just adds context to the infinite problem of the surrounding snowpack. Human decisions are made every time. This one is a head scratcher to me.

There are lessons to learn, that's what I think the spirit of the Slide Zone forum can be. Sometimes it takes harsh criticism to unearth the lesson itself. Other times it's being directly connected to the victims and survivors.

I hope the survivors can heal quickly, and the victims families can get closure.

RIP

[totaliboard]

Inexperience and experience seem to get us killed in equal measure in this game. I don't think it really even matters anymore

Never did. Never will. Doesnt matter who you are, doesnt matter who you with. You are the variable. Snowpack is the control.

[Lindahl]

That terrain during this type of avy danger... to manage it you have to thread a tiny fu*king needle, doesn't matter how experienced or inexperienced of a BC traveler you are, your margin of error is miniscule and right now probably more like Nonexistent.

Maybe not directed at me, but I was making the point that experience/knowledge tells you not to push it and even be up there, not how to thread whatever needle (don't see how any needle could be threaded on that slope, so yeah, anyway).

[newbreak]

Maybe not directed at me...

Definitely not.

[JoeStrummer]

Never did. Never will. Doesnt matter who you are, doesnt matter who you with. You are the variable. Snowpack is the control.

Yeah, yeah, I get all that Lil Tremper. The snowpack doesn't care about your Avy 2 cert or the deposit you have down on the bouncy castle place for ypur kid's birthday. I get all that. And if I ever forget it there are plenty of dingbats around here to remind me.

My point was more that the first question asked is always "Were they experienced?" The response then determines how they are judged by the internet clown court. Either "dumbasses" or "dumbasses that shoulda known better." I guesa I am musing why it makes any fucking difference?

[Hugh Conway]

Duh. Experienced = one of "the tribe". Not experienced = gaper peon who deserves to die so mountains won't be polluted by the unworthy.

Whoever it may be, it's sad that they are gone and their loved ones are grieving.

[Micol]

vibes to all

[benkraj]

Sorry if this was already brought up, but I haven't seen anything.

Was the slide triggered from above or below?

[~mikey b]

when i got in over my head a few years ago, resulting in a SAR call out, he was indeed one of the first to arrive on scene. I can't say that I felt like he got his ass there in a hurry because he needed attention---- he got there fast because in a small community there's a good chance it's one of your friends that you are going to be helping out.

Yep. I understand all that. And maybe my comment is off the mark when you know more. I get it. Maybe he's just passing along info. But first on scene out in the world is not the same as first on scene here. A bit unprofessional in my opinion, but maybe good intentions.

Whatever. Does not matter much really. Two more dead ski junkies

[MakersTeleMark]

Look, like other times this year - it ripped, big. BIG.

Safety zones, one at a time?

It really didn't matter at that point.

Take the lesson, and move on.