ATK raider 14 DIN binding

[auvgeek]

Any more info or thoughts on the Raider 14 2.0 before I pull the trigger? Planning to mount on Zero G 108 without brakes as a general touring setup, paired with a lighter/skinnier setup (Down LD90 and Superlight 2.0). Was really debating these or the Kingpin, but skialper was pleased with their power transfer, and I'd prefer to save the weight over the Kingpin.

Specifically, can anyone comment on the toe retention and durability, especially compared to Speed Radical? Are the toe wings Al like Plums? I'm trying to decide if I want to keep my Speed Radical toes or go full 14 2.0. Will probably use a dynalook toe plate as a toe spacer regardless.

Also, looks like they ship with the "freeride spacer." Can anyone confirm?

[Lindahl]

Go with the 14 toes. Great retention and strong springs. You won't get the power transfer of the Kingpin though.

[auvgeek]

You won't get the power transfer of the Kingpin though.

You've A/B the Kingpin and the Freeraider 2.0? How much time do you have on the new heel piece?

[Lindahl]

No but it doesn't offer anything new over other bindings I've been on. Its the same zero-gap springload and rotating heel with tech pins. It'll have the same vague feel in the heel and lack of power transfer as all the others. The only thing it offers over the 1.0 is more predictable vertical release as the ski is flexed.

[JanIdar]

By looking at pdf-manual I think that 2.0 still has the same 4mm gap than 1.0 has. I´ve been happy with 1.0 for couple of weeks but I´m a mellow skipping jong so what do I know.

Ps. sorry about my english, second language

[N3vrast]

Hi,

I have just got 2 days on the new 2.0s on Ravens, and can confirm that on the freeride 14s you get the spacer shipped with the binding. This is only for the 14 and not the case for the Raider 12 2.0.
As for the other questions about the 4mm gap etc. Yes I spoke to ATK before mounting, and you are supposed to have a 4mm gap on the heel. The extra power transfer happens through the "freeride spacer" mount. This spacer is supposed to barely touch the bottom of the shoe when mounted in the binding without any wheight on the shoes. The spacer has microadjustement screws that you access through sliding the springloaded top to the side.

As for the bindings skiability: Since this is my first tech binding I do not have any reference but compared to my Dukes and STH14, they skied great. Mind you this was my first two days of skiing this year on brand new skis in +2 C crud conditions. But they felt real solid and after the initial scepticism of this low tech wizardry I did not even think about it.
One note tho, the ski brakes in the front does not fold in on top of the ski as other bindings tend to do. So the skibrakes is always touching the snow when you are turning, you can hear the scratching noices when skiing on ice/hardpack. I had 108mm brakes for my 104mm Ravens. It is a fairly easy fix to bend the brakes a bit upwards, but you will not be able to fix it completely.

As for the new Ravens (since there is very little info on these), they are absolutely the best crud ski/heavy snow skies I have ever tried. Very stable and easy to handle in low and high speads. My previous experience is on TSTs, EHP 187/193 and Pont2ns.

[auvgeek]

^^Thanks for the info! How do you like the magnetic heel riser system?

Re brakes: that would annoy me for sure. Have you considered removing the brakes and going with leashes?

[plugboots]

I have been in contact with ATK as well, and the spacer is called: AL07 FREE-RIDE SPACER. I think I will order a pair for my Raider 12's, which are being mounted as we speak. Bummer about the brakes rubbing, if that happens for me, I'll remove and go to the B&D leashes.

[N3vrast]

The magnetic heal system is great, the two heal risers has different magnetic strenghts, so when you flip the top yellow one from ski to walk the bottom black riser will stay at its place due to a higher magnetic retention to the binding compared to the yellow riser. And when flipping back both risers will hold together. You can also just flip the riser over when the heelpiece is in ski mode for traverses etc. This only work from walk to ski tho. Not the other way around. I think the magnetic heel system is the best I`ve seen. I need to use them a bit more to say for sure on the durability, but I am not concerned so far.

Yes for the brakes it is a bit to get used to, I think it happens to other bindings to, but you dont notifce since it is not in your field of view. The brakes are not detachable on the 14s, they are on the 12s tho. Anyway I do not think it is reducing the skiing performance, and they are activated in walk mode to, so am happy with they way they are.

[auvgeek]

The brakes are not detachable on the 14s

Wait, really?? That may be a deal breaker for me.

[SiSt]

Wait, really?? That may be a deal breaker for me.

Older version you can unscrew two hex-screws to remove the brakes. Don't have a pair of the new ones available.

[Lindahl]

I have just got 2 days on the new 2.0s on Ravens, and can confirm that on the freeride 14s you get the spacer shipped with the binding. This is only for the 14 and not the case for the Raider 12 2.0.
As for the other questions about the 4mm gap etc. Yes I spoke to ATK before mounting, and you are supposed to have a 4mm gap on the heel. The extra power transfer happens through the "freeride spacer" mount. This spacer is supposed to barely touch the bottom of the shoe when mounted in the binding without any wheight on the shoes. The spacer has microadjustement screws that you access through sliding the springloaded top to the side.

FWIW, I've been on other tech bindings without space between the bottom of the boot and the binding (at least with my boots) and they definitely still don't feel like an alpine binding or a Kingpin. They still ski fine but they're lacking that power transfer and have a vague heel feel. Color me extremely skeptical still.

Also ATK makes no claims about improved power transfer on their site that I can see. If it did, you'd think they'd mention it. If I remember correctly, the freeride spacer was designed to reduce stress in the heel pins when landing airs. They had an issue with pins breaking at one point in time (before the Raiders?). I also believe I remember reading that a few skiers (their athletes?) had broken pins this way in the original Raider 14, so they came out with the spacer mid-season.

[plugboots]

So the skibrakes is always touching the snow when you are turning, you can hear the scratching noices when skiing on ice/hardpack. I had 108mm brakes for my 104mm Ravens.

I am now pretty skeptical of this. I just got my skis back from getting mounted, (and no I did not mount my own fucking skis), and I like the way the brakes tuck in and out of the way:


Dude, you must angulate more than Ligety or Schifrin, because on my 106 wide skis with 108 brakes, my boot hits first:

[N3vrast]

Looks good plugboots!
Yeah about that brake wdth... Well I do angle my skis alot, but after wrighting my last post I got suspicious so I checked my brakes again. And it turns out that I had recieved a toe piece with 120 mm brakes even though I ordered 108 mm. Due to some previous noncense with the bindings I did not notice this before bringing them back home for my Chistmas skiing. They are back at the shop now, annoying!

Lindhal: It does not say much about the power transfer on the spacer, I have read that it have that function after the redesign in different ski magasines. I got curious so I am waiting for a reply from ATK as we speak

[N3vrast]

FWIW, I've been on other tech bindings without space between the bottom of the boot and the binding (at least with my boots) and they definitely still don't feel like an alpine binding or a Kingpin. They still ski fine but they're lacking that power transfer and have a vague heel feel. Color me extremely skeptical still.

Also ATK makes no claims about improved power transfer on their site that I can see. If it did, you'd think they'd mention it. If I remember correctly, the freeride spacer was designed to reduce stress in the heel pins when landing airs. They had an issue with pins breaking at one point in time (before the Raiders?). I also believe I remember reading that a few skiers (their athletes?) had broken pins this way in the original Raider 14, so they came out with the spacer mid-season.

Reply from ATK: Talking about our spacer, it provides an increased torsional stability, without modifying the side release values, and improves the energy transmission, especially if combined with the 2.0 heels with ERS. By the way, our heels have been tested with 5 tons ( 5'000 kg ) applied vertically on the pins ( 2.5 tons each ) without any damage on the binding.
A good skier may apply 250 kg on 4 pins = 62.5 kg each pin =)
The safety ration is quite good i guess =)

Sounds like improved power transfer to me

[JRainey]

I think the more solid connection between the bottom of your boot and the ski helps transmission. Especially if the boot heels have those harder plastic nubs resting on in. I doubt it's as good as a kingpin which clamps the boots down across the width of the boot heel. On atk you're just resting on it.

I had a solid inbounds day in JH on the 1.0 heels and they were much better than speed turns or plums unsupported.

Still gonna mount kingpins on a euro resort daily driver.

Touring: light hojis with atk heels and dyna toes

Daily: heavy hojis with inserts for fks and kingpins.

[hnnaum]

What do you think about "XXL toe adjustment plates" (R08A) for raider 2.0.
( http://www.atkrace.it/collezione-pro...plate/?lang=en )

It reduces toe and heel pins height difference, allow changing toe piece position..
Ecxept added weight do you see any other fault?

[smooth operator]

What do you think about "XXL toe adjustment plates" (R08A) for raider 2.0.
( http://www.atkrace.it/collezione-pro...plate/?lang=en )

It reduces toe and heel pins height difference, allow changing toe piece position..
Ecxept added weight do you see any other fault?

shims with benefits. I like

Honestly these and the heel block are so simple yet usefull. Props ATK

one downside:
"MADE FOR: all our bindings except for FR14"

[Jonathan S.]

Raider 12 to be distributed in U.S. for next season:
http://us12.campaign-archive2.com/?u...c&e=9e96b6112d

[retirwntm]

Damn. Those things are sexy. Unfortunately for me I'd be better off using trekkers and quitting beer and pizza rather than some micro binder.

[nickel]

Reply from atk: (snip) By the way, our heels have been tested with 5 tons ( 5'000 kg ) applied vertically on the pins ( 2.5 tons each ) without any damage on the binding.
A good skier may apply 250 kg on 4 pins = 62.5 kg each pin =)
The safety ration is quite good i guess =)

Sounds like improved power transfer to me

I thought this was out of whack and so stated running the math, mostly because this statement made me want to learn. It's actually pretty accurate if all we did was press strait down on skis/ bindings and still experienced the kind of accelerations we do .A 100kg skier going from 80 to a stop in 2 seconds does exert roughly 250kg of force. Unfortunately to really get the force applied, you need to factor in the moment because the width of your ski is a lever and then torque gets into it and I got lost.

TISOL (today I sort of learned)

[plugboots]

Raider 12 to be distributed in U.S. for next season:
http://us12.campaign-archive2.com/?u...c&e=9e96b6112d

But I already bought the red ones.

[hnnaum]

I wonder how toe adjustment plates affects the efficiency of the brakes? Because it reduces effective length of the brake..

[Lindahl]

I wonder how toe adjustment plates affects the efficiency of the brakes? Because it reduces effective length of the brake..

It doesn't affect the effeciency because the brakes are mostly useless anyway. They'll keep the ski from taking off on you on firm snow, but they definitely won't stop a ski.

[LawndartGustav]

It doesn't affect the effeciency because the brakes are mostly useless anyway. They'll keep the ski from taking off on you on firm snow, but they definitely won't stop a ski.

Nope they probably won't stop a ski but I do love those brakes for:
- stopping a ski from taking off
- holding the skis together when being carried, in lifts etc.
- tipping the skis over more easy and that means they stop. It also means no leash! and do I love that last par