Page 202 of 219 FirstFirst ... 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 ... LastLast
Results 5,026 to 5,050 of 5466
  1. #5026
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Big in Japan
    Posts
    47,742
    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    You fundamentally just don't get it. Using electricity isn't inherently bad. Electricity can come from renewables and there is lots of stranded energy that isn't conducive for much because it's away from population centers, but feasible for BTC mining. There is a mass exodus out of China happening right now and much of the energy used in new mining locales will be primarily renewable. I still firmly believe that BTC mining will drive green energy development, even though people have a hard time accepting this idea. Finally as far as tech is concerned, BTC is by far the most decentralized and secure network; those things themselves are hugely innovative. New advancements such as Taproot and Schnoor signatures are big improvements and will be love in a few months.

    Then why do I have to pay capital gains taxes on it?

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
    Because you got lucky in the speculative bubble.

    If you seriously consider this an investment, you will never retire.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  2. #5027
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Edge of the Great Basin
    Posts
    2,895
    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    You fundamentally just don't get it. Using electricity isn't inherently bad. Electricity can come from renewables and there is lots of stranded energy that isn't conducive for much because it's away from population centers, but feasible for BTC mining. There is a mass exodus out of China happening right now and much of the energy used in new mining locales will be primarily renewable. I still firmly believe that BTC mining will drive green energy development, even though people have a hard time accepting this idea. Finally as far as tech is concerned, BTC is by far the most decentralized and secure network; those things themselves are hugely innovative. New advancements such as Taproot and Schnoor signatures are big improvements and will be love in a few months.
    Credit where credit is due, you keep repeating the same discredited talking points. The problem is bitcoin just lost its largest so called source of renewable 'stranded energy' when hydro powered mining farms in Sichuan were shut down.

    Wet season Chinese hydro powered mining was bitcoin's main claim to being powered by renewables. Now that's gone. What bitcoin has left are token renewable sources useful for greenwashing but otherwise mostly mined with energy derived from coal and other fossil fuels. Even the Bitcoin Mining Council threw in the towel and says “We are not trying to fix bitcoin.” They've chosen instead to become a lobbying group intent on spreading disinformation.

  3. #5028
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Big in Japan
    Posts
    47,742
    Quite absurd to use that argument that Bitcoin power usage will be cool because it will primarily use renewable sources. Wtf. Then I've seen squeaky clean kids on tv say that coins are actually good for the environment, because they inspire the development of more renewable sources. Haha. Ain't that a chicken and egg plate of bullshit. Meanwhile, Texas goes down from severe cold, Texas limits consumption from extreme heat. And it's not as though the rest of the country is awash in plentiful, cheap power. I wouldn't be surprised if the Northeast has another great outage if a big heat wave happens over a week, which happens every now and then. I never read that we invested the hundreds of billions to fix that. So, right, it's ok to let a bunch of greedy con men use the power that would fuel a small city to make funny money, when there's plenty of fucking money in the world, anyway. Um, no. No way

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  4. #5029
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Edge of the Great Basin
    Posts
    2,895
    Yeah, it's important to recognize energy is not just an environmental problem, it's also a macroeconomic problem because energy price shocks contributed to all but one of the modern postwar recessions.

    The one two combination of price spikes causing supply shocks followed by demand driven inflation leads to a disruptive economic cycle. So even if a person doesn't care about environmental problems, increasing energy demand inevitably creates economic problems too.

  5. #5030
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Matchbox 20
    Posts
    2,317
    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    What bitcoin has left are token renewable sources useful for greenwashing but otherwise mostly mined with energy derived from coal and other fossil fuels.
    It will be renamed from 'mining' to 'equity generation' and the process will be sold as "impetus equity generation for a fairer and greener future".
    Wall street could lap that up. Same process, even greater waste, but with a blessed twist! Bitcoin will also have to be renamed to 'Enviro Credits'.

    What are we doing? "We are securing the future of our society and planet through equity generation and the creation of Enviro Credits. The most blessed Satoshi has found a way to secure generational wealth and simultaneously provide the impetus for a fairer and greener future for all the nations and tribes in our multi-planet human future"

    /s
    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
    we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er

  6. #5031
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    3,050
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Sorry Benny, should have put a /R after that question.

    I wanted to get Stale to hold forth, he did not fail to do so.
    You all complain about me for telling it how it is, but behave like this. Act with some integrity man.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

  7. #5032
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    13,553
    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    Gold is hard to verify. Gold is difficult to divide. Gold is extremely difficult to transport. Gold is easily seized by corrupt entities. Gold mining is conducted by pouring cyanide, literal poison, into the water supply and leaves giant scars on the landscape.

    It's the 21st century. I hate to break it to you, but shit isn't going to get less digital. Millennials and Zoomers understand this. Sorry if you don't.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
    Not all gold mining is done in this fashion. It's still something that will always be a piece of worth.

    Tell me what happens if the whole internet goes dark? Those bitcoins (and fiat) will be worth piss....gold? Not so much.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app
    http://www.firsttracksonline.com

    I wish i could be like SkiFishBum

  8. #5033
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    3,050
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Because you got lucky in the speculative bubble.

    If you seriously consider this an investment, you will never retire.
    Nah, son. I did my research and realized BTC is a profound technological breakthrough that solved the Byzantine General's Problem. Once I came to this conclusion I used the well-established dollar cost averaging strategy which allowed me to accumulate a nice position with a relatively low cost basis. Admittedly, my investing strategy is quite aggressive, but I make a decent six figure salary as a software developer and have a few decades until I reach traditional retirement age. However, I'd like to save enough to retire before then and expatriate to Central America.

    It's easy for you to write BTC off as a speculative bubble. But let's be honest here shall we? How many of you thought BTC was dead after the Mt. Gox hack in 2014? What about after the 2017 bull run? What kind of cognitive dissonance does it take to keep denying that BTC is here to stay now that we have Billionaires like Paul Tudor Jones and Ray Dalio owning some? How about publicly traded companies adding it to their balance sheets? What about El Salvador declaring it legal tender with several other countries not far behind?

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

  9. #5034
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Big in Japan
    Posts
    47,742
    Perfect. Retire to Central America where the power goes out daily. And men with guns roam freely.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  10. #5035
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    3,050
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    Not all gold mining is done in this fashion. It's still something that will always be a piece of worth.

    Tell me what happens if the whole internet goes dark? Those bitcoins (and fiat) will be worth piss....gold? Not so much.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app
    Well, not all BTC is mined with coal but you all sure act like it is. Just a few minutes of research illustrate the huge environmental devastation from gold mines, much of which is done illegally.

    https://www.usaid.gov/peru/our-work/illegal-gold-mining

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/ticotim...t-crucitas/amp

    Alternatively, even by the most conservative estimates, BTC mining uses renewable energy at a rate 2x that of the USA's grid.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/hbr.org...tually-consume

    What happens if the whole internet goes dark? LOLOLOLOLOLOL That's really your argument? Take a lap man. In fact, take two.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

  11. #5036
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    3,050
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Perfect. Retire to Central America where the power goes out daily. And men with guns roam freely.
    Let me get this straight. You live in the United States and you're pointing your finger at other countries for...gun violence?

    Interesting strategy.



    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

  12. #5037
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    5,447
    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    Well, not all BTC is mined with coal but you all sure act like it is.
    The marginal kWh comes from the most expensive source. Very fundamental macroeconomics. If you cut back demand by one kWh you'll burn that much less fossil fuel (*). It's not about whether all of it comes from coal, just the last one--which is to say, any of them. You have to hit 100% renewable before you aren't burning fossils. This is the same challenge faced by electric cars, and if not for that we'd have dumped gasoline a decade ago.

    (*)The only exception is if you aren't yet using all of the electricity from solar and wind and so have excess instantaneous renewable capacity. Dams don't help you with this because the water is limited and 100% of it will be used when needed if you don't use it right now.

  13. #5038
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Big in Japan
    Posts
    47,742
    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    Let me get this straight. You live in the United States and you're pointing your finger at other countries for...gun violence?

    Interesting strategy.



    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
    You are young and very naive.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  14. #5039
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Where the sheets have no stains
    Posts
    16,442
    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    You all complain about me for telling it how it is, but behave like this. Act with some integrity man.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
    Except that you are only telling it like you perceive it to be and you are absolutely positive that your viewpoint is the right one and everyone else is wrong.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  15. #5040
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    6,233
    Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values. It is strongest when tied to personal security - including financial security.

  16. #5041
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Treading Water
    Posts
    5,463
    I keep checking in to see when you guys are going to reassure me that this shit is coming around again.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Lots of Cream, Lots of Sugar

  17. #5042
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    3,050
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    You are young and very naive.
    You're free to think that if you'd like. That doesn't change the fact that the USA has an obscene amount of gun violence which doesn't appear like it will be getting better anytime soon. So anyway, congrats on joining PG in the making blanket racist statements against Central America club.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Except that you are only telling it like you perceive it to be and you are absolutely positive that your viewpoint is the right one and everyone else is wrong.
    It's called conviction man. I post facts to the best of my ability. Most anti-crypto people here resort to childish behavior and manipulation which you were guilty of a few posts above. Maybe I'll be more amenable towards your viewpoints if you post something of value.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

  18. #5043
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Edge of the Great Basin
    Posts
    2,895
    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    Alternatively, even by the most conservative estimates, BTC mining uses renewable energy at a rate 2x that of the USA's grid.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/hbr.org...tually-consume
    Not anymore. Your outdated article discusses hydro power in China as the main source of renewable bitcoin mining. Not only was Chinese hydro seasonal to began with (bitcoin renewable claims often incorrectly extrapolated season percentages to an entire year) but now even that's gone.

    The article also mentions Scandinavian hydro powered mining but Norway and other Nordic countries are also seeing increasing opposition to bitcoin mining, arguing it should be prioritized last in connecting to the grid. And El Salvador's Bukele says geothermal energy will be used to mine bitcoin but El Salvador is densely populated and mostly powered by oil. Only 3.4% is geothermal. That means using available renewables to consume additional energy has the same effect as burning more oil directly.

    There's no getting away from the fact Proof-of-Work is made to waste resources by design.


    https://www.tu.no/artikler/nytt-utva...mnettet/510967

  19. #5044
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    N side, Terrace, BC
    Posts
    4,026
    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    Using electricity isn't inherently bad. Electricity can come from renewables
    Yeah, it's not inherently bad. Using your cell phone or computer isn't bad either but both those things use shit tons of plastic and that currently comes from the oil and gas industry. As does energy for bitcoin mining and air conditioning (partially powered by awesome coal fired plants). And fuel for your heliski trip. And to fill up your cool sport ute. Electricity can come from renewables but doesn't in large part because the infrastructure isn't there yet. Yeah stalefishman, I'd like to believe that your bitcoins are are thing for good but I can't help think they represent nothing except a ponzi scheme that I missed getting in on the ground floor on. Just like that liquor bottle ponzi scam in the '80's (you know, buy this one guy a bottle and you'll get 6 back). Well I did get one bottle back the one year I tried that bullshit get something for nothing scam, so it was break even for me. What happens when BTC goes to $0.50 ......because really it's an investment in what exactly? Nothing tangible I can see. Hope it doesn't collapse the economy and I hurt for that. Stalefish, I don't wish you ill. I just disagree with the premise that BTC and crypto in general is "good" for the planet.
    “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

    www.mymountaincoop.ca

    This is OUR mountain - come join us!

  20. #5045
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Cloud City
    Posts
    7,691
    The best bitcoin mining machine is the s19pro and the cost of it has gone through the roof, I've seen it >$12k! Plug that one into your roi calculator if you want a laugh. Also I've read that the dedicated PSUs can't be had for love or money, so machines can't be repaired. I have an s15 that needs a psu. I'm very curious how the Chinese exodus will affect the market for mining hardware. Add in the price of bitcoin cut in half - lot of forces at play and hash rate is falling so I am looking for "miner capitulation".

    I had a couple of buy orders filled 33.3k and 32.3k.
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  21. #5046
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Matchbox 20
    Posts
    2,317
    ^^^ Thanks Shera. That gives me a data and maths idea for the Bitcoin network:

    • Bitmain Antminer S19 pro Mining Hash Rate: 110TH, Power Consumption: 3250W, Dimensions: 400mm ( L) * 195mm (W) * 290mm (H).
    • Cost per Bitmain Antminer S19 pro bought by RIOT last year in an order of 8,000 units = $2,212 per unit. Consumer retail is about $14,000 on Amazon.com.
    • Network hashrate for BTC is 140 million TH/s right now.
    • Cost per transaction (fees plus BTC reward distribution) is $143.
    • Transactions per second of the network = 7-ish
    • 568,000 unique Bitcoin wallet addresses.


    That means that if all the machines were the best Antminer S19 Pro's:

    • 1.272727 million = number of mining units it would take to serve the network.
    • 5.264 million gigawatts = total power consumption.
    • 28,789 cubic metres = space (volume) required by all the machines, not including racking and other infrastructure.
    • $2.815 billion dollars = cost of hardware at bulk buy price. Or $17.8B dollars at retail pricing for the machines.
    • 1.595 billion strands of 14 guage copper wire to carry the electricity with 220V standard.
    • The cross sectional area of the wire will need to be 3.317 million square metres. (5.2M GW / 220V = 23.9B amps / 15amps) = 1.595 trillion strands of wire X 2.08mm square)


    It only takes the DeLorean in Back to The Future 1.21 gigawatts of power to initiate time travel. With the power used by the Bitcoin network in just 1/4 of ONE second, all 568,000 Bitcoin address owners could be sent back to the Rai Stones era with oral history accounting (ancient blockchain method).

    It would require 22.53 hours of constant purchasing for just for the initial purchase of time travel vehicles. During the 22.53 hours of waiting, the network will also be operating at 5.264 million gigawatts per second. So 426.9 #plaid #watts (see ***) will be needed for the transactions although the actual time travel machines need just 1/4 of a second of the networks energy consumption.

    There would also be a $8.52 transaction fee per user. In addition, there will also need to be an exchange account created for each user and it will need to be funded with dirty fiat and each user will also need a Ledger hardware wallet and a 12 word passphrase that they can't lose. Rainbow log charts not needed since Rai Stone era still using regular rainbows.

    Good luck finding the electricity to get back
    (see ****)



    ======================
    Please let me know if you see any calculation errors and I will be glad to correct any values.
    *Using 30 day average value.
    ** VISA has offered to do this for free in a total of 10.32 seconds - no waiting. They say they can bill you in 30 days at 18% interest on unpaid accounts. If you can return to the future BEFORE the purchase, then you can actually travel for free (think about it!). You also can collect travel points but only if you return in-the-future.
    *** From now on a billion gigawatts will be referred to as #plaid #watts in honour of the movie Space Balls.
    **** OMG. Key detail. They could actually stay in the Rai Stones era and reproduce. This could cause a fissure where time tracks diverged from a nexus point and the end result being ... never mind
    Last edited by puregravity; 06-21-2021 at 11:03 AM.
    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
    we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er

  22. #5047
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    At The Shmograsboard
    Posts
    3,698
    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    You're free to think that if you'd like.... . It's called conviction man. I post facts to the best of my ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    You are young and very naive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Except that you are only telling it like you perceive it to be and you are absolutely positive that your viewpoint is the right one and everyone else is wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values. It is strongest when tied to personal security - including financial security.
    Stale, the challenge with you is that you are very resistant towards facts that come from the outside, i.a, You.
    This regarding discussion about energy expenditure, computational issues, financial structures, behaviourism or geopolitics.
    To date, you have never been wrong, re-evaluated your point of views or adapted your viewpoint to circumstances when presented with evidence, statistics or facts.
    In your own words, you have merely been upholding your "conviction". Sadly this approach does not hold up to any kind of scientific rigour or come across as a particularly robust investment strategy...albeit you stated yourself that "my investing strategy is quite aggressive". As many has stated here, very few wishes you ill or want to see you eat shit, but with your current mindset it is very hard to maintain a meaningful discourse.

    With the vested interests (fiscal, psychological, etc) it might be very hard for you to distance yourself from the unfolding events (unlike LeeLau) to make sound moves in the very near future.

    The Writing is on the Wall, has been for a while.
    Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin.

    "China said Monday it had ordered domestic banks and Ant Group Co. payment platform Alipay not to provide services linked to trading of virtual currencies, tightening the reins on the cryptocurrency industry yet again."

    "The inquiry was focused on services provided to assist speculative trades in virtual currencies, it said, adding such activities “disrupt financial order and also breed risks of criminal activities like illegal cross-border asset transfers and money laundering.”"

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s?srnd=premium

    The floggings will continue until morale improves.

  23. #5048
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    3,050
    Quote Originally Posted by garyfromterrace View Post
    Yeah, it's not inherently bad. Using your cell phone or computer isn't bad either but both those things use shit tons of plastic and that currently comes from the oil and gas industry. As does energy for bitcoin mining and air conditioning (partially powered by awesome coal fired plants). And fuel for your heliski trip. And to fill up your cool sport ute. Electricity can come from renewables but doesn't in large part because the infrastructure isn't there yet. Yeah stalefishman, I'd like to believe that your bitcoins are are thing for good but I can't help think they represent nothing except a ponzi scheme that I missed getting in on the ground floor on. Just like that liquor bottle ponzi scam in the '80's (you know, buy this one guy a bottle and you'll get 6 back). Well I did get one bottle back the one year I tried that bullshit get something for nothing scam, so it was break even for me. What happens when BTC goes to $0.50 ......because really it's an investment in what exactly? Nothing tangible I can see. Hope it doesn't collapse the economy and I hurt for that. Stalefish, I don't wish you ill. I just disagree with the premise that BTC and crypto in general is "good" for the planet.
    I wish you well too. However, you don't get BTC's value proposition because (I surmise) you come from a position of immense financial privilege that you don't realize you have, nor do most other North Americans.

    I don't think printing an infinite amount of money that largely goes to the already rich is good for the planet. It devalues the money earned from people's labor and props up an economy premised upon endless growth and consumption sustained by artificially low interest rates.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

  24. #5049
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Edge of the Great Basin
    Posts
    2,895
    The problem with a 'propped up economy':

    Name:  E4ZZ21aXIAQ6YaQ.jpg
Views: 228
Size:  91.2 KB

  25. #5050
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    3,050
    Quote Originally Posted by Meathelmet View Post
    Stale, the challenge with you is that you are very resistant towards facts that come from the outside, i.a, You.
    This regarding discussion about energy expenditure, computational issues, financial structures, behaviourism or geopolitics.
    To date, you have never been wrong, re-evaluated your point of views or adapted your viewpoint to circumstances when presented with evidence, statistics or facts.
    In your own words, you have merely been upholding your "conviction". Sadly this approach does not hold up to any kind of scientific rigour or come across as a particularly robust investment strategy...albeit you stated yourself that "my investing strategy is quite aggressive". As many has stated here, very few wishes you ill or want to see you eat shit, but with your current mindset it is very hard to maintain a meaningful discourse.

    With the vested interests (fiscal, psychological, etc) it might be very hard for you to distance yourself from the unfolding events (unlike LeeLau) to make sound moves in the very near future.

    The Writing is on the Wall, has been for a while.
    Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin.

    "China said Monday it had ordered domestic banks and Ant Group Co. payment platform Alipay not to provide services linked to trading of virtual currencies, tightening the reins on the cryptocurrency industry yet again."

    "The inquiry was focused on services provided to assist speculative trades in virtual currencies, it said, adding such activities “disrupt financial order and also breed risks of criminal activities like illegal cross-border asset transfers and money laundering.”"

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s?srnd=premium
    Funny that you claim my views don't hold up to scientific rigor when cryptocurrency is the culmination of thousands of years of math, science, and technology. I'm also constantly reassessing my investment thesis as I seek out and gain more knowledge. Over time that has made me gravitate more and more towards BTC. This strategy may not come across clearly in this thread. However, I've literally spent thousands of hours researching the history of money, crytpo, etc. To me it feels like, and I could be wrong about some of you, that most people's "research" about crypto doesn't go beyond shit posting in this thread and reading a handful of mainstream media articles on crypto that are often horrendously inaccurate.

    My investment moves are for the long-term, not the near future. I believe this is at odds with the general US economy which is hyper-focused on maximizing next quarter's EBITDA and why I really don't like investing in stonks.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •