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  1. #6426
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    The only accounting function solved is when it comes to shareholder distribution, though. Thatís a pretty tiny part of the overall accounting burden. Agreed that it can all be automated, but thereís nothing special about NFT here.

    The international investment is a cool angle, but the NFT can only enforce what it sees. Your hypothetical $1M of revenues is still entirely predicated on trust that all revenues are actually being accounted for in whatever blockchain is being used, or that all expenses are legitimate and appropriately bid, or that local regulations/taxes are being handled appropriately, and I donít see any obvious means that would provide visibility outside of the blockchain environment, itís just a massive false sense of security. Without regulation or third party audit or being local, you still donít know whatís going on in your PH investment property outside of the inputs being plugged in locally. I can see how itís a tool, but I canít see how itís any more than that and Iím still at a loss that it portends anything particularly disruptive or game changing, whatever game that is (accounting software? Thatís a small gameÖ. And it doesnít get bigger when you private label it with a blockchain).

    Honestly, and this sounds more incendiary than I mean it, it feels like the only game this is really changing is pulling things like apartment building investments into the crypto pyramid scheme. Which would explain some of the fervor around NFT.

    ETA: I freely acknowledge that I donít have to understand something for it to exist or be good or successful. Most of my friends donít really understand my passion for skiing. But for whole economies and industries to shift such a thing needs to be built on something that can be explained and understood, and that isnít evidenced in any of this discussion here.

    Also ETA: I completely support building cool new paradigms even if we donít understand how they might be truly useful in the future in a meaningful way. If thatís all weíre talking about, cool, letís nerd out. But I get puzzled when proponents try to tell me weíre already there.
    focus.

  2. #6427
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    Just because you can't understand it, don't blame the very straightforward explanations you have received.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  3. #6428
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    Just because you can't understand it, don't blame the very straightforward explanations you have received.
    Iím not blaming the explanations, Iím expressing doubt because the explanations kind of suck. How many times have we heard in this thread that people study this shit like itís their job just to understand whatís going on? YeahÖthat feels like a pretty light thread to hang economic change on.

    Here, though, Iím just doubting that NFTs are going to change the world in any meaningful way, even if they become ubiquitous. We claim that weíre at the head of a paradigm shift that will pick new winners and losers but we canít explain any incentives that donít rely on operating anonymously and/or outside of established regulatory and taxation structures.

    I donít believe in your dystopian anarchic prediction of the future, and if it does come to pass I kinda think the digital world is one of the first things to go, and anything that relies on that digital world to build value is going to be hard pressed to justify ANY resource needs to be sustained. But thatís just blind pontificating.
    Last edited by Mustonen; 12-03-2021 at 01:40 PM.
    focus.

  4. #6429
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    The funny thing about NFTs is when comes to art is they are more transparent and auditable than the current art market, not less. Look at the chain and you can find someone doing wash sales with their nft, you can trace what wallet holds the nft, this is all much easier than the current art market. And from the perspective of at least some art market participants, thatís not a good thing.

  5. #6430
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    I never made any predictions, and most of the current use cases for nfts don't impress me, but you can bury your head in the sand and it won't bother me one bit.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  6. #6431
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    I never made any predictions, and most of the current use cases for nfts don't impress me, but you can bury your head in the sand and it won't bother me one bit.
    Well, Iím not doing that either. Iím in here asking questions Ďn shit.
    focus.

  7. #6432
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    Questions arenít allowed. Criticism is not allowed. Just hair trigger butt hurt ďFUD!Ē anguish anytime someone dares question anything.

    This NFT discussion is interesting except for the butt hurt.

  8. #6433
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    I think the only thing that LL and I have provided are very clear explanations of the current and imagined possible use cases for NFTs. Nothing more.

    Certainly not "a dystopian anarchic prediction of the future".

    I own 3 NFT's, and they have nothing to do with art or music.

    And when you come in with such a perspective as the following, "it feels like the only game this is really changing is pulling things like apartment building investments into the crypto pyramid scheme", you have intellectually already shot yourself in the foot.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  9. #6434
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    I think the only thing that LL and I have provided are very clear explanations of the current and imagined possible use cases for NFTs. Nothing more.

    Certainly not "a dystopian anarchic prediction of the future".

    I own 3 NFT's, and they have nothing to do with art or music.
    Sorry. You didnít predict that. I was projecting because it was fun based on:

    The underpinnings for most of this relies on anonymity or on evading regulations or taxation. Or all of the above. For that to go mainstream, that feels like the world stops working. Cheerleaders for that would then be relying on the world economies to continue to generate enough surplus to support systems that create $650K digital yachts. Seems like a bad bet, and it all feels very dystopian and anarchic.

    I think itís all beanie babies and ways to certify beanie babies. I can square with permanent beanie babies in my economy, too, but I canít square with it being more than that. And Iím trying to because I know seemingly smart people who believe just that.
    focus.

  10. #6435
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post

    And when you come in with such a perspective as the following, "it feels like the only game this is really changing is pulling things like apartment building investments into the crypto pyramid scheme", you have intellectually already shot yourself in the foot.
    I intellectually shot myself in the foot (not sure what that means, but Iíll give you the benefit of the doubt that itís bad or exposed me somehow) by pointing out that NFTs seem to be a way to pull certain contracts into the pyramidic crypto ecosystem rather than NFTs being a way to revolutionize contracts? That right there is my favorite hot take of the day, though, and it perfectly explains the slobbering being given NFTs by all the crypto blogs.
    focus.

  11. #6436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    I intellectually shot myself in the foot (not sure what that means, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that it’s bad or exposed me somehow) by pointing out that NFTs seem to be a way to pull certain contracts into the pyramidic crypto ecosystem rather than NFTs being a way to revolutionize contracts? That right there is my favorite hot take of the day, though, and it perfectly explains the slobbering being given NFTs by all the crypto blogs.
    Nice pivot from pyramid scheme to ecosystem. NFT's are assets, pure and simple. They are a tokenization of a thing on a block chain.

    They can represent anything. They strictly proscribe ownership of something, in any scale, to anything. How you choose to use them is up to your imagination.

    The future will all be about tokenization of everything from your identity and reputation, to your property, relationships, etc. and blockchain is just an immutable ledger.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  12. #6437
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    Well that’s not a shitty dystopian hell scape.

    also an indictment of the blindness of coinbros. Magical token don’t mean shit if it’s garbage in.

  13. #6438
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    Well that’s not a shitty dystopian hell scape.
    Be the change you want to see.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  14. #6439
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    FTR I'm enjoying this back and forth with you Mustonen. It's (partly) my job to think through this. And I'll also freely admit I can't and have not thought through every use case, every problem or whether there is solution to the problem. Will try to rejoin later

  15. #6440
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    Well that’s not a shitty dystopian hell scape.

    also an indictment of the blindness of coinbros. Magical token don’t mean shit if it’s garbage in.
    I think you fundamentally do not understand the difference between a coin, a currency, and a token.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  16. #6441
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    I think you fundamentally do not understand the difference between a coin, a currency, and a token.
    i think you make sweeping bullshit statements because you can’t substantively rebut points. You’ve got your religion of credentialism but call it “tokens and blockchain”

  17. #6442
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    i think you make sweeping bullshit statements because you can’t substantively rebut points. You’ve got your religion of credentialism but call it “tokens and blockchain”
    You don't know one thing about what I believe.

    Please point out one sweeping bullshit statement I have made.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  18. #6443
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    FTR I'm enjoying this back and forth with you Mustonen. It's (partly) my job to think through this. And I'll also freely admit I can't and have not thought through every use case, every problem or whether there is solution to the problem. Will try to rejoin later
    Me too!

    I agree thereís something there, but I donít know what it is. Part of my job is figuring out what the hell this stuff means, too, and figure out if thereís an application for it. All Iíve seen, outside of blockchain serving as a speculative investment vehicle, is a way for people to lose their life savings to fraudsters. Otherwise itís just a more complicated and more fraught way to do things that we already do.

    Thereís probably more to it, though.
    focus.

  19. #6444
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    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  20. #6445
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    You don't know one thing about what I believe.

    Please point out one sweeping bullshit statement I have made.
    yawn, tedious rhetorical games, how exciting you posted this
    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    The future will all be about tokenization of everything from your identity and reputation, to your property, relationships, etc. and blockchain is just an immutable ledger.
    Its credentialism. you can call it a college degree or a token. You can have it registered at the registrars office or on the blockchain. Same with a marriage. Or any number of “real world” things. It’s only a proxy.

    now post some stupid smug bromide.

  21. #6446
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    yawn, tedious rhetorical games, how exciting you posted this


    Its credentialism. you can call it a college degree or a token. You can have it registered at the registrars office or on the blockchain. Same with a marriage. Or any number of “real world” things. It’s only a proxy.

    now post some stupid smug bromide.
    Ad hominems suit you well.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  22. #6447
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    Ad hominems suit you well.
    Not that it matters I guess, but youíre leading the personal shit slinging in this particular round by a big margin. Take a lap, bro.
    focus.

  23. #6448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    Not that it matters I guess, but you’re leading the personal shit slinging in this particular round by a big margin. Take a lap, bro.
    Point out a single instance of shit slinging.

    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat

  24. #6449
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    What?

    Maybe NFTs and immutable blockchains are what actually make the Matrix possible?
    focus.

  25. #6450
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    You guys are making my Bitcoin crater, quit it

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