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  1. #11526
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    No one is surprised that you avoided addressing the fallacy: if you don't believe BTC will significantly help these things then, by BTC maxi "critical thinking", you are for these things.
    No one is surprised your rebuttal avoided the issues and offered up only a nonsensical word salad.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

  2. #11527
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    Quote Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker View Post
    who are these energy rich but poor people, russians?
    Impoverished zombie power plant owners. Bitcoin mining brings outdated end of life dirty coal plants back from the dead.

  3. #11528
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    Impoverished zombie power plant owners. Bitcoin mining brings outdated end of life dirty coal plants back from the dead.
    That's at most a handful of highly sensationalized situations. BTC mining uses a much higher proportion of renewables than almost every other industry and it's trending greener all the time.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

  4. #11529
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    The rich are always gonna get a piece of the action. But this is just validation for the transition to web 3.0, which will be an improvement due to player owned NFTs and play-to-earn incentives. Lots of people in developing nations making really good money for just playing video games. That really didn't exist before at scale.
    word salad like this^ ?

  5. #11530
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    That's at most a handful of highly sensationalized situations. BTC mining uses a much higher proportion of renewables than almost every other industry and it's trending greener all the time.

    That's a lie told by the bitcoin mining council using made up self reported numbers. The truth, bitcoin mining is fueled by dirty fossil fuel operations from coast to coast. Meanwhile, ETH reduced its emissions by 99% after switching to proof-of-stake.

  6. #11531
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    Energy rich people could be Nigerians (where BTC already has some of the highest use) with access to vast amounts of unutilized hydro. There are also Native American mining operations already.

    It's not 2013 anymore. Anyone thinking BTC is still anonymous needs to do more research. KYC/AML is a thing.

    Third, much research suggests that fiat and tradfi have higher percentages of illegal use than BTC.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
    Cite your shit. The amount of "random wallets" I see happening is ridiculous just in normal news.

    All the greenwashing is bullshit too. Yes - there's more miners where energy is cheap because duh, but there's a significant (if not the majority) on non-renewables.

  7. #11532
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    That's at most a handful of highly sensationalized situations. BTC mining uses a much higher proportion of renewables than almost every other industry and it's trending greener all the time.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
    The "industry" is just making a bullshit string right?
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  8. #11533
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    Bitcoin miners outbidding utilities[which would sell the power to families in actual homes] for solar project output to "green mine" bitcoin is bullshit of the first order. Without the crazy high of last years bull rush of mining profit I bet some of these "green" projects aren't doing so well today.

    Other than oligarchs, who is going to build multi billion dollar Nigerian hydro projects to mine btc?
    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
    Ottime

  9. #11534
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    Third, much research suggests that fiat and tradfi have higher percentages of illegal use than BTC.

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    Base Rate Fallacy, I’d presume.

  10. #11535
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    I think we all have made our positions/opinions clear and are spinning our wheels page after page at this point.

    BTC will either be successful or it won't.

  11. #11536
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    What timeframe do you think is appropriate for evaluating that binary?

  12. #11537
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    Quote Originally Posted by byates1 View Post
    I think we all have made our positions/opinions clear and are spinning our wheels page after page at this point.

    BTC will either be successful or it won't.
    what is success? people will make (and lose!) money on it. does it help the greater good? does it solve problems outside of the ones it creates?

    I don't have an agenda to push ETH or Doge over BTC, I think they are all useless scams. If I made money on them, I would be happy and hopefully acknowledge the same as I would with winning the lottery or picking the right ponies on an exactobox at the track. neither of those serve the public good either despite the promises of money for education or however they wash gambling.

    ETA: i'd be less annoyed if my friends didn't text me to let me know they are thinking about HODLING or whatever IDGAF
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  13. #11538
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    word salad like this^ ?
    I don't think you understand how big the video game industry and crypto are going to be.

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Pic...metaverse-fund

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  14. #11539
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    That's a lie told by the bitcoin mining council using made up self reported numbers. The truth, bitcoin mining is fueled by dirty fossil fuel operations from coast to coast. Meanwhile, ETH reduced its emissions by 99% after switching to proof-of-stake.
    Meanwhile ETH is a pre-mined centralized shit coin.

    Disclaimer: I own a decent amount of ETH.

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  15. #11540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    Bitcoin miners outbidding utilities[which would sell the power to families in actual homes] for solar project output to "green mine" bitcoin is bullshit of the first order. Without the crazy high of last years bull rush of mining profit I bet some of these "green" projects aren't doing so well today.

    Other than oligarchs, who is going to build multi billion dollar Nigerian hydro projects to mine btc?
    How's your war on Christmas lights going? Did you know they use more energy than BTC? What purpose do they serve?

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  16. #11541
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    Did you know they use more energy than BTC?

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    Incorrect.

    There was a 2008 study by the US DOE that said the US used approximately 6.63 Terawatt-hours of electricity every year for "decorative holiday lights." That same study suggested that if we could switch those lights from 5% to 100% LEDs, that would go down to 0.66 Terawatt-hours. In a 2015 study, 57% of US consumers preferred LED Christmas lights, so I'm going to estimate that the current annual US energy usage for Christmas lights is < 3 Terawatt-hours. The US represents about 4.25% of the world population. If we make the ridiculous assumption that the Christmas light energy density / population is the same in the rest of the world as it is in the US, we'd get a worldwide Christmas light energy consumption of 70 Terawatt-hours. That's an upper upper upper bound. The real number is probably a tenth of that.

    According to the University of Cambridge, 2022 year-to-date energy consumption for Bitcoin is about 100 Terawatt-hours. Full-year 2021 was 105 Terawatt-hours. Bitcoin consumes more energy than Christmas lights. Probably an order of magnitude more.

  17. #11542
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    BTC is not going to replace USD anytime soon. Full stop.

    The US monetary policy has been hijacked by the ruling class. The bulk of the bailouts in 2008 as well as in 2020 went to the people that needed it the least. Wealth inequality skyrocketed.

    Try reading a crisis wasted by Reed Hundt. He was a Dem insider's insider. In great detail he explains how Timothy Geithner made sure the bulk of the GFC money went to the banks. After that, the fed kept QE going way too long and bought up MBS way longer than they should have. Now we have a rapidly worsening housing affordability crisis going full stream ahead into a recession. Good times.

    Sorry it hurts your feelings if some of us want another option.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
    Do you really think that answers the question or explains you railing against a monetary system that allows for the expansion and contraction of the monetary supply? Yes the bailouts weren’t perfect in 08 or 20, but we’d be wayyyy worse off if we had a monetary system that was fixed.

    If the Fed didn’t buy mortgage backed securities the housing market would be in taters, next to no building would be occurring and the construction industry would be crushed. Interest rates would be higher than they were in 82. How would bitcoin or crypto do anything to help the housing market?

    This is par for the crypto course though, anything bad in the world of trad fi means crypto is the solution, even when crypto has nothing to offer or is worse than traditional finance. Additionally, no matter how negative a crypto development is; price drops, fraud, theft, exchange collapse, institutional/ whale investors selling while retail is buying and trend is downward, it all really means BTC will soon be worth way more than it is today.

    Regarding BtC as an alternative, I highly doubt you want it as a stable “alternative” to USD. You invest in it because you think it will make you rich, not because it is going to be stable and maintain purchasing power relative to USD after inflation. If that is the return you thought BTC was going to give, you and 99% of crypto investors would dump it.


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  18. #11543
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    I don't think you understand how big the video game industry and crypto are going to be.

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Pic...metaverse-fund

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
    This is by far the dumbest take and evidence that people don't understand video games.
    To baseline, videogame costs can be simplified into dev cost (initial and continuing updates for service games), licensing (engines, brands, middleware etc.), Distribution (steam, epic store, app stores) and server infrastructure.
    Currently, most games run closed ecosystem economies - you get a knife in counterstrike, it can be sold to other cs players with some restrictions. Others are closed and account locked (Apex legends is mostly this way, as are most games because scams are common).
    This means the companies capture 100% of the money people pay in for new items and a percentage of user to user trades. This more than pays for continuing dev and infrastructure.
    You're proposing moving to a model where they profit less and have to pay more to dev as they have to interact with some central NFT protocol. This also means people can get all the items they want outside the game and be a net zero revenue for a game. Why would any company pursue this?
    Not to mention the clones and one pixel different nfts people will develop with pseudo games to cheat the economy.
    We already have models like this, it's called gold farming and it's banned from most games because it makes them impossible to balance and flooded with bots (lost ark is the latest example).

  19. #11544
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    As some one with no skin in the game, watching strictly for the riveting sociology, I have one question. When FTX is called an exchange that's a misnomer right? They are/were functioning more like a bank than an intermediary?

    Also, if you want to take it old school Reminiscences of a Stock Operator is a great easy read. I've got money long term in what ya'll call tradfi but as a reformed bond broker/trader that's seen the manipulated markets from the inside, I'll keep my speculation in meatspace thanks.

  20. #11545
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    What timeframe do you think is appropriate for evaluating that binary?
    My timeline. 15 yrs. I'll be 62. We'll see how I've done.

  21. #11546
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    Quote Originally Posted by byates1 View Post
    My timeline. 15 yrs. I'll be 62. We'll see how I've done.
    You’re implying that for you the only metric that matters is whether the BTC price went up more than say 5% annual average. You don’t care about the success metrics Stalefish posits that btc will be widely used as an alternative to corruptly or ineptly managed fiat?

  22. #11547
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    ...If the Fed didn’t buy mortgage backed securities the housing market would be in taters, next to no building would be occurring and the construction industry would be crushed. Interest rates would be higher than they were in 82. How would bitcoin or crypto do anything to help the housing market?
    Name:  TATERS.jpg
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  23. #11548
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    Well, crypto can formally count on the EU Central Bank as an adversary. I'm sure no decision makers listen to them.
    https://gizmodo.com/european-central...nce-1849835418

    Insert "This is good for bitcoin" here

  24. #11549
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    Quote Originally Posted by schuss View Post
    This is by far the dumbest take and evidence that people don't understand video games.
    To baseline, videogame costs can be simplified into dev cost (initial and continuing updates for service games), licensing (engines, brands, middleware etc.), Distribution (steam, epic store, app stores) and server infrastructure.
    Currently, most games run closed ecosystem economies - you get a knife in counterstrike, it can be sold to other cs players with some restrictions. Others are closed and account locked (Apex legends is mostly this way, as are most games because scams are common).
    This means the companies capture 100% of the money people pay in for new items and a percentage of user to user trades. This more than pays for continuing dev and infrastructure.
    You're proposing moving to a model where they profit less and have to pay more to dev as they have to interact with some central NFT protocol. This also means people can get all the items they want outside the game and be a net zero revenue for a game. Why would any company pursue this?
    Not to mention the clones and one pixel different nfts people will develop with pseudo games to cheat the economy.
    We already have models like this, it's called gold farming and it's banned from most games because it makes them impossible to balance and flooded with bots (lost ark is the latest example).
    This jong, Richard Garfield, created an obscure game called Magic: The Gathering or something like that. Maybe you guys have heard of it???

    https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/29/ma.../?guccounter=1

    [Probably nothing, Blue Benny]

  25. #11550
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    You’re implying that for you the only metric that matters is whether the BTC price went up more than say 5% annual average. You don’t care about the success metrics Stalefish posits that btc will be widely used as an alternative to corruptly or ineptly managed fiat?
    I'd like to see BTC strengthen over time, be used as an independent system to transfer value. As a speculative investment id like to see it maintain and increase in value.

    As a currency? Maybe. All it takes is adoption and an apple like fanboy that becomes ubiquitous. May happen. The 20 something's of today will seek out ever easier, more tech savvy and cool ways to move value around. I'm 48 and only carry cash as a novelty. Don't use or carry a wallet. That shit is over.

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