Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[stalefish3169]

Fixed it.

Want to address the limited transaction issue? How can BTC ever replace the USD, and be the currency of the developing countries you’re so concerned about, at only 10 transactions a second.

Make sure your solution doesn’t contradict the need for you to be the key holder so your BTC isn’t stolen by the corrupt exchange.

There is plenty of transaction capacity for the current use case and the second layer lighting network is improving transaction capacity everyday.

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[J. Barron DeJong]

There is plenty of transaction capacity for the current use case and the second layer lighting network is improving transaction capacity everyday.

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If you just get rid of the (theoretical) benefits of BTC you can make it fast:

Concerns About the Lightning Network

The most apparent problem with the Lightning Network—which is meant to be decentralized—is that it could lead to a replication of the hub-and-spoke model that characterizes today’s financial systems. In the current model, banks and financial institutions are the primary intermediaries through which all transactions occur.

Businesses that invest in Lightning Network nodes may become similar hubs or centralized nodes in the network by having more open connections with others. Other concerns are fraud, fees, hacks, and price volatility.

Closed Channel Fraud

One of the risks when using the Lightning Network is closing the channel and going offline. For example, suppose Sam and Judy are transacting, and one has malicious intent. The dishonest party may be able to steal coins from the other participant using a technique called fraudulent channel close.

Let's say Sam and Judy each put up an initial deposit of .5 BTC to open a channel, and a transaction of 1 BTC has taken place in which Sam purchased goods from Judy. If Judy logs off (closing the channel) after transferring the goods and Sam doesn't, Sam could broadcast the initial state (the time before the 1 BTC was transferred), meaning they both get their initial deposits back as if no transactions were done. In other words, Sam would have received 1 BTC worth of goods for free—and the deposit is returned.

This makes it necessary for third parties to run on nodes to prevent fraud within the Lightning Network, called a watchtower. The watchtower monitors the transactions and helps prevent fraudulent channel close.

[stalefish3169]

If you just get rid of the (theoretical) benefits of BTC you can make it fast:

Concerns About the Lightning Network

The most apparent problem with the Lightning Network—which is meant to be decentralized—is that it could lead to a replication of the hub-and-spoke model that characterizes today’s financial systems. In the current model, banks and financial institutions are the primary intermediaries through which all transactions occur.

Businesses that invest in Lightning Network nodes may become similar hubs or centralized nodes in the network by having more open connections with others. Other concerns are fraud, fees, hacks, and price volatility.

Closed Channel Fraud

One of the risks when using the Lightning Network is closing the channel and going offline. For example, suppose Sam and Judy are transacting, and one has malicious intent. The dishonest party may be able to steal coins from the other participant using a technique called fraudulent channel close.

Let's say Sam and Judy each put up an initial deposit of .5 BTC to open a channel, and a transaction of 1 BTC has taken place in which Sam purchased goods from Judy. If Judy logs off (closing the channel) after transferring the goods and Sam doesn't, Sam could broadcast the initial state (the time before the 1 BTC was transferred), meaning they both get their initial deposits back as if no transactions were done. In other words, Sam would have received 1 BTC worth of goods for free—and the deposit is returned.

This makes it necessary for third parties to run on nodes to prevent fraud within the Lightning Network, called a watchtower. The watchtower monitors the transactions and helps prevent fraudulent channel close.

I'm not saying lighting network is perfect. It's very very early. But people still have the option of BTC layer 1. I can send 5 BTC to anyone, anywhere in a few minutes and nobody can stop me. There is no similar functionality in tradfi. Sending any significant amount of money via a bank or wire transfer is a huge PITA, is subject to size limits, more expensive, and takes longer than BTC...and this is today.

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[J. Barron DeJong]

The parallels between Elon Musk’s ignorance of the history of content moderation and crypto boys ignorance of banking history/regulation is amusing to me.

[stalefish3169]

The parallels between Elon Musk’s ignorance of the history of content moderation and crypto boys ignorance of banking history/regulation is amusing to me.

It's called disruptive technology because it disrupts.



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[hatchgreenchile]

Lightning has been around since 2015. That surprised me.
Crypto really has the longest design and ramp up cycle in tech.

[Harry]

I'm not saying lighting network is perfect. It's very very early. But people still have the option of BTC layer 1. I can send 5 BTC to anyone, anywhere in a few minutes and nobody can stop me. There is no similar functionality in tradfi. Sending any significant amount of money via a bank or wire transfer is a huge PITA, is subject to size limits, more expensive, and takes longer than BTC...and this is today.

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Not sure what you are talking about. I just moved some money (worth more the 5 BTC) from a bank in Montana to my broker in NYC. Took less than a minute and nobody stopped me. And it was not a “huge PITA”. Couple of clicks.

[Bunion 2020]

I'm not saying lighting network is perfect. It's very very early. But people still have the option of BTC layer 1. I can send 5 BTC to anyone, anywhere in a few minutes and nobody can stop me.

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Bullshit. Send me 5 BTC to prove your contention.

[Mani_UT]

ISending any significant amount of money via a bank or wire transfer is a huge PITA, is subject to size limits, more expensive, and takes longer than BTC...and this is today.

It's not hard and it's there to protect people and the gov from fraudsters and cheats. Encouraging BTC is encouraging fraud and money laundering. I can see how it's appealing to the "tax is theft" crowd. Hopefully lots of tax evaders are losing their shirts right now. They should have paid their taxes

[MontuckyFried]

Is it true that not only has Sam Bankman-Fried not been arrested yet, but adding insult to injury, is getting to run around still doing talks? WTF?!

[bennymac]

if you boomers don't believe that BTC will solve world hunger, government + big bank corruption, and climate change you must therefore be all for world hunger, government + big bank corruption, and climate change.

[RoooR]

Lightning has been around since 2015. That surprised me.
Crypto really has the longest design and ramp up cycle in tech.

And bitcoin has been around for 13 years.

[MontuckyFried]

How kind of you to delete your post, Dumbfree. Anyway, dude's slated to be in NYC tomorrow for the NYT Dealbook Summit. Guess we'll see if he shows up...

https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1...3zkKrVh3RL2wpw

[Cono Este]

If he’s physically in NY tomorrow and not arrested, I’ll lose all hope. No, I’ll go apeshit.

In something like this, the US Govt, with all the racketing laws, wire fraud, can hit him with something.

They waited 20 yrs for my friend to come back after he opened a sports book in Antiguan and he never stole anything. Another guy came back right away and they sent him to jail. Just for accepting wires from us customers.n that’s why SBF made the comment he didn’t touch us accounts. Sure.

[goldenboy]

I'm not sure what's more amazing, that cryptobros think transferring money is hard and somehow new and different with crypto, or that bitcoin has been camped out at nearly the same price for a couple of weeks now despite everything going on.

[dunfree]

How kind of you to delete your post, Dumbfree. Anyway, dude's slated to be in NYC tomorrow for the NYT Dealbook Summit. Guess we'll see if he shows up...

https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1...3zkKrVh3RL2wpw

facts cant penetrate your thick fucking skull and your partisan knob sucking, why fucking bother. It’s like interacting with staledildo and his moronic babbling.

[MontuckyFried]

So I guess dunfree is pro-SBF, then. Makes sense.

[MultiVerse]

So I guess dunfree is pro-SBF, then. Makes sense.

I don't think a person has to be "for" or "against" SBF, rather there are "good faith" and "bad faith" arguments

1. Good Faith: SBF most likely committed fraud and regardless of how I feel about him or crypto or effective altruism or whatever justice should be served
2. Bad Faith: I dislike or even hate SBF and therefore the feds should find something—anything—to pin on him so that he's arrested immediately regardless of the status of any ongoing investigation, or I'll lose my shit

[dunfree]

So I guess dunfree is pro-SBF, then. Makes sense.

I got abused here months ago because he came out and said he was running Ponzi schemes and everyone in crypto was “cool bro, he’s smarter than you”. I’ve offered theories on why he hadn’t been arrested yet - because I supremely desire to see him behind bars if he’s as guilty as his statements suggest - while you’ve been peddling conspiracy theory that would make a drunken lemur turn its nose in disgust. So go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

[schuss]

I'm not sure what's more amazing, that cryptobros think transferring money is hard and somehow new and different with crypto, or that bitcoin has been camped out at nearly the same price for a couple of weeks now despite everything going on.

You see, they want it with no restrictions, so no Know Your Customer or other things that keep cartels and known terrorists from interacting with much of modern finance in an easy fashion.

[Vt-Freeheel]

https://www.axios.com/2022/11/29/sam...ftc-regulation

"Am I allowed to say a negative number?" he said, when asked about his personal finances. "I mean, I have no idea. I don't know. I had $100,000 in my bank account last I checked," he said.

"There's certainly an extent to which that I wish there had been someone who wasn't me who was in charge of managing conflicts of interest," he said, in a nod to the bankruptcy court claim that he ran FTX like a personal fiefdom.

[stalefish3169]

if you boomers don't believe that BTC will solve world hunger, government + big bank corruption, and climate change you must therefore be all for world hunger, government + big bank corruption, and climate change.

If people have the ability to believe in future potential, arguments can be made for BTC's positive impacts on each of your items. I know this may be a stretch for the Depends wearers in here (looking at you dumbfree), but hear me out.

Firstly, BTC is a game changer in that previously energy needed to be produced near population centers for the most part. However, as BTC's value continues to increase over the coming decades there will be the necessary financial incentives to harness large amounts of stranded power sources. This could provide energy rich but financially poor people with new sources of income. This could help to alleviate their food shortages.

Secondly, making financial transactions more transparent will allow more people to monitor for on chain funny business. While still in its infancy, this is already happening. There are lots of eyes already monitoring key wallets, exchanges, etc. This will allow way more insight than we've been privy to with tradfi.

Finally, money makes the world go around. Since fossil fuels have us by the balls and are immensely profitable, there is very little incentive for the oligarchs to change the system. BTC can catalyze renewable development and act as a load balancer for power sources like wind and solar that need stable loads to be efficient and cost effective. As much as you guys have your ostrich heads in the sand, this is already happening in Texas and elsewhere and trending up. Furthermore, there are many BTC mining operations using isolated flared methane to power ASICs while converting it to carbon dioxide which is a much less potent greenhouse gas.

So yeah, in summary, BTC can actually help ameliorate a lot of the challenges you mentioned. Thanks for the great post, Blue Benny.

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[ex-powderbroker]

who are these energy rich but poor people, russians?

it is transparent... but anonymous?

load balancer for solar, lol, like the greedy fucks hoping to make a mint on this scam care.

[bennymac]

So yeah, in summary, BTC can actually help ameliorate a lot of the challenges you mentioned. Thanks for the great post, Blue Benny.

No one is surprised that you avoided addressing the fallacy: if you don't believe BTC will significantly help these things then, by BTC maxi dogma, you are for these things.

#avoidersavoid

[stalefish3169]

who are these energy rich but poor people, russians?

it is transparent... but anonymous?

load balancer for solar, lol, like the greedy fucks hoping to make a mint on this scam care.

Energy rich people could be Nigerians (where BTC already has some of the highest use) with access to vast amounts of unutilized hydro. There are also Native American mining operations already.

It's not 2013 anymore. Anyone thinking BTC is still anonymous needs to do more research. KYC/AML is a thing.

Third, much research suggests that fiat and tradfi have higher percentages of illegal use than BTC.

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