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  1. #3326
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Yeah - but those aren't generally due to willful negligence.
    Sure it is, if politicians and utility managers ignore future demand scenarios and hide in their shells.

  2. #3327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Holy shit.

    Are you on drugs?
    Well, I do live in Oregon.

    But besides that, do cars get better gas mileage today than they did in the 1970s? Do some of them even run on electricity from renewable resources? What exactly makes you think that we won't see technological advancements in energy production and BTC mining...especially when there is massive money to be made?

  3. #3328
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    So confused. I thought this was a Bitcoin thread.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    However many are in a shit ton.

  4. #3329
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    So confused. I thought this was a Bitcoin thread.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    It is. Were at the 'make fun of Stalefish for thinking that hashrate means security' phase.
    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
    we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er

  5. #3330
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    It is. Were at the 'make fun of Stalefish for thinking that hashrate means security' phase.
    LOL, making fun of stalefish. Whose the one who thinks bitcoin is going to zero!

  6. #3331
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    I'm here for the Texas bashing.

  7. #3332
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    You quoted *everything* I ever wrote here. Seriously. Go back and read your own posts - you quoted my every word! Splat started this thread, and he deleted his posts too.

    You know who the real troll is? It is someone that uses ad ho·mi·nem instead of debate things reasonably - as in the spirit of TGR.

    ad ho·mi·nem
    /ˌad ˈhämənəm/


    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    It is. Were at the 'make fun of Stalefish for thinking that hashrate means security' phase.
    Ok, Mr. Ad Hominem.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

  8. #3333
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    I'm not saying that there are no downsides to BTC. I'm saying that the positives make it all worthwhile. I specifically stated "abundant access to clean energy" in the post you quoted. The profit motive for BTC mining with clean energy will lead to advancements in green energy production. The reason why people have continued to use fossil fuels over and over is because they can make A LOT of money. If the same people realize that they can get greater returns with clean energy, that's where the CapEx will go. Mr. Musk is in a pretty good position to drive innovation that direction. You're calling the baseball game over in the bottom of the first inning, man.
    An enormous benefit to society in recent years is market economies doing more with less. For the first time in human history in recent years we've managed to proportionally increase our standard of living with relatively less energy consumption.

    Per capita, we produce more food on less land etc. Beer and other consumer staples, for example, used to come in steel cans. Then the switch was made to aluminum and then aluminum cans became lighter. The first Al cans weighed 90 grams, in the early 70s an aluminum can weighed 21 g, the 80s 14 g, and now it's 12 g or even 10 g. If cans weighed what they did in the 80s it would require an additional 600K tons of aluminum production annually.

    In contrast BTC does less with more, not more with less. The marginal cost of mining a coin scales with the price. If the BTC price is $50K then the net investment in mining gear and electricity approaches $50K. You get a cost structure that looks something like coins mined per minute * price. Right now that's about 0.65 coins per minute so 0.65 * 1440 * 50,000 = $46,800,000 cost per day or $17 billion annually of additional new electricity/capital to run the network.

    If the BTC price goes to $100K the new additional capital and electricity network requirement is $34 billion. At $1 million BTC the requirement is $342 billion of additional new capital per year to scale the network.

    In contrast, the cost of mining more gold or aluminum is determined by essentially physical fixed costs. Whereas with BTC the marginal mining cost approaches the BTC coin price. A higher BTC price means mining costs and power consumption also increase just to maintain the network.

  9. #3334
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    ^^agreed with a lot including the initial premise.

    As more of the 21m coins are mined, looking out 200 years (we’ll never make it that far right?) its a sozeable initial price to pay for another store of value. But going forward is there an energy component to trade? Nothing is free, maybe the initial energy useage is the price we pay for this.
    Gold takes a lot of energy and leaves a lot of waste to mine as well. Not to say one is right and the other isn’t (or both wrong or both right). Just food for thought.
    Decisions Decisions

  10. #3335
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    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
    we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er

  11. #3336
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    The marginal cost of mining a coin scales with the price. If the BTC price is $50K then the net investment in mining gear and electricity approaches $50K. You get a cost structure that looks something like coins mined per minute * price. Right now that's about 0.65 coins per minute so 0.65 * 1440 * 50,000 = $46,800,000 cost per day or $17 billion annually of additional new electricity/capital to run the network.

    If the BTC price goes to $100K the new additional capital and electricity network requirement is $34 billion. At $1 million BTC the requirement is $342 billion of additional new capital per year to scale the network.

    In contrast, the cost of mining more gold or aluminum is determined by essentially physical fixed costs. Whereas with BTC the marginal mining cost approaches the BTC coin price. A higher BTC price means mining costs and power consumption also increase just to maintain the network.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Landers View Post
    As more of the 21m coins are mined ... Nothing is free, maybe the initial energy useage is the price we pay for this.
    Gold takes a lot of energy and leaves a lot of waste to mine as well. Not to say one is right and the other isn’t (or both wrong or both right). Just food for thought.
    Random Thoughts on Mining

    Is Bitcoin mining like mining gold? Are they 'found'? Is someone discovering Bitcoins hidden in some complicated math or deep crypto treasure chest?

    "New bitcoins are generated by a competitive and decentralized process called "mining". This process involves that individuals are rewarded by the network for their services. Bitcoin miners are processing transactions and securing the network using specialized hardware and are collecting new bitcoins in exchange."
    - https://bitcoin.org/en/faq#how-are-bitcoins-created

    Then they are assigned. They are simply balances and do not exist as unique cryptographic or mathematical entities. They become other people's Bitcoins when miners sell them.



    In the source code of a Bitcoin node there are a few lines of code that credit the balances of miners with new Bitcoin at the start of the next block. Like "Add 1 to Bob's balance".

    All the hashrate and electricity consumption is just the transaction processing arranging the transactions into blocks every 10 minutes. The new Bitcoins are added to the balance of the miners at the head of the next generated block.

    New blocks are created here in the source code. Each miner has a 'coinbase wallet address' that the next block will credit with the reward at line 157 there, see "// Create coinbase transaction."



    What best describes this activity?

    It is more like paying accountants to add up entries. When they complete the task, a payment entry is made to the accountants own balance. It is just a balance entry in real life added to the payroll for these two accountants.

    So, there are no intrinsic maths or special properties of a Bitcoin. It is simply a balance entry added to an account number. Bitcoins do not exist as unique cryptographic or mathematical entities. They are just account balances.

    When the system was new, the work required to add up entries and do the proof-of-work was easy. Can be done with pencil and paper as per http://www.righto.com/2014/09/mining...and-paper.html.


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    Last edited by puregravity; 02-21-2021 at 09:58 PM. Reason: grammar and formatting
    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono
    we are not arguing about ski boots or fashionable clothing or spageheti O's which mean nothing in the grand scheme ― XXX-er

  12. #3337
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    I just opened a Coinbase Acct and bought some Bitcoin. Prepare for the impending crash.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    However many are in a shit ton.

  13. #3338
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    I just opened a Coinbase Acct and bought some Bitcoin. Prepare for the impending crash.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Been there done that!

  14. #3339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    What the fuck? Have you heard about the air and water pollution issues in China? You seem to be saying that there's no downside to all of those coal burning plants making their electricity. And the dams? Do you know how many millions have been displaced as those dams were built, and how entire ecosystems have been disrupted by them? C'mon.

    Look at this Texas thing. We can't even provide day to day service to millions after a fairly common weather event (and you know most grid managers bite their nails in during annual heat waves), but even GM thinks we can all roll in non fossil fuel cars and trucks by 2035. Really? Yet, Tesla and Bitcoin keep on blowing up. Insane
    no no....china uses renewable energy.....i learned that here...oh wait...no...

  15. #3340
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm2e View Post
    I just opened a Coinbase Acct and bought some Bitcoin. Prepare for the impending crash.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Lol, you weren't joking!

  16. #3341
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    In a purely competitive market, an agile elastic managed currency will always out-do a fixed supply unmanaged currency.
    That is why Bitcoiners want your fiat.
    Their needs are finite. They want to get in and get out, with more of what will be used in the future - fiat.
    If they truly believed that Bitcoin was the currency of the future, they would never sell their Bitcoin because fiat would be less valuable.

    A scheme characterized by a loss system (pays $45M for miners each day), plus a ledger (distributed or not), plus the need for new investors to pay off old investors is not called a currency. It is called a Ponzi scheme - a decentralized Ponzi scheme is still a Ponzi scheme.
    Heh.

  17. #3342
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    You bastard
    You fuckers talked me into it.
    I should have mentioned, I’m the unluckiest person I know.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    However many are in a shit ton.

  18. #3343
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    So about a week ago I was finally able to get going with trading. I tossed an equal amount at 3 different things on Gemini (Ethereum, BAT, and Orchid) and 1 thing on Kraken (Dogecoin).

    All 3 on Gemini were actually on a solid trajectory over the course of the week and I was up a few bucks, but today they all just dipped below the initial "investment." The ONE thing that's holding strong for me? Freaking Dogecoin of all things. LMAO. It's all so ridiculous. Gonna ride it all til it either evaporates or actually does something. I guess if I've learned one thing, it's that throwing any legit sum of money at this stuff probably ain't for me. Either way, it's been really fun to watch the rollercoaster. Almost like watching the pig races at Bear Creek, Montana and just about as silly.

  19. #3344
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    Tether FUDDERS today.

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    https://bitcoinist.com/clear-skies-f...les-with-nyag/

    A dark cloud has been lifted from Bitcoin, and it could mean clear skies for the crypto market for here on out. Why? The most dangerous potential “black swan” hanging over the crypto market for years, has now been significantly derisked. According to breaking news, the company behind the stablecoin Tether and crypto exchange Bitfinex, has settled with the New York Attorney General’s office for some $18.5 million to clear the firm of accusations of “any wrongdoing.”

    Here’s why this is such a big deal for Bitcoin, Ethereum, and the rest of the crypto market.

    DARK CLOUD OF TETHER FUD LIFTED FROM CRYPTO MARKET
    Tether has long been the center of controversy in the cryptocurrency market. The stablecoin trading under the USDT ticker, earned itself a notorious reputation early on for a lack of transparency into the fiat and assets said to be backing the asset.

    Tethers are tied one to one with the dollar in terms of value, and are said to be backed by a corresponding dollar or asset valued accordingly. The New York Attorney General’s office, however, made allegations against Tether after issues arose stemming from a portion of the company’s assets it could no longer access.

    Tether today revealed that it has settled with the NYAG’s office for $18.5 million, while admitting to no wrongdoing. According to a statement, over 2.5 million pages of documents were submitted providing insight into operations, helping to defend the company’s innocence. ‘

    A settlement, however, doesn’t fully prove innocence, so there’s no telling the true situation behind the scenes at Tether.

    FORECAST: CLEAR SKIES FOR BITCOIN AND ALTCOINS
    The stablecoin was also demonized for being used to manipulate the price of Bitcoin during the 2017 bull market. There’s also a direct correlation with new stablecoins entering the crypto market, and large Bitcoin uptrends.

    One of the darkest clouds hanging over Bitcoin this entire time, however, has been the claim that the cryptocurrency market’s capital was nothing but unbacked capital built on Tether, that was ready to come crashing down as soon as this case concluded.

    RELATED READING | BITCOIN HASN’T REACHED MANIA STAGE YET, ACCORDING TO THIS METRIC

    The crypto community speculated it could potentially mean the end of the current bull market, had that information come to light. Instead, a settlement means the case is now closed, and the company is essentially cleared of “any wrongdoing” as it claims.

    With nothing wrong to report, and no pending cases against Tether. There’s nothing but clear skies for Bitcoin and the rest of crypto.

  20. #3345
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    FWIW, Attorney General James Ends Virtual Currency Trading Platform Bitfinex’s Illegal Activities in New York:

    A Stablecoin Without Stability – Tethers Weren’t Fully Backed At All Times

    When No Bank Backs You, Turn to Shady Entities — Bitfinex Hid Massive Losses

    The OAG Investigation Shines a Light on Unlawful Trading in New York State

    Bitfinex and Tether Banned from Continuing Illegal Activities in New York

  21. #3346
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    FWIW, Attorney General James Ends Virtual Currency Trading Platform Bitfinex’s Illegal Activities in New York:

    A Stablecoin Without Stability – Tethers Weren’t Fully Backed At All Times

    When No Bank Backs You, Turn to Shady Entities — Bitfinex Hid Massive Losses

    The OAG Investigation Shines a Light on Unlawful Trading in New York State

    Bitfinex and Tether Banned from Continuing Illegal Activities in New York
    oh theres nothing to see here...

    TO THE MOON...

  22. #3347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    oh theres nothing to see here...

    TO THE MOON...
    If they had anything other than NY gangster shakedown tactics meant to keep the already powerful in power, there would be criminal charges. NY is screwing over young Americans while financial innovation goes elsewhere.

  23. #3348
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    Looks like ALL my crypto getting crushed right now. Not like it matters since I'd be out a whopping few bucks if I cashed out now, which I won't. Actually thinking about tossing some MORE into it while it's on this hard dip. I wonder how much longer this dip is going to last. Seems to be pretty much across the board. What the hell. I'm in for more. Just gotta time it right.

    I do have to laugh at people like the Treasury Secretary, Janet Yellen as well as Bill Gates talking trash about Bitcoin. It's almost as if they feel threatened by it or something. Makes you wonder:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/22/yell...t-bitcoin.html

  24. #3349
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Looks like ALL my crypto getting crushed right now. Not like it matters since I'd be out a whopping few bucks if I cashed out now, which I won't. Actually thinking about tossing some MORE into it while it's on this hard dip. I wonder how much longer this dip is going to last. Seems to be pretty much across the board. What the hell. I'm in for more. Just gotta time it right.
    Ahhh... timing the market.



    I do have to laugh at people like the Treasury Secretary, Janet Yellen as well as Bill Gates talking trash about Bitcoin. It's almost as if they feel threatened by it or something. Makes you wonder:
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/22/yell...t-bitcoin.html
    Or... perhaps... they're correct about it.


  25. #3350
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Ahhh... timing the market.
    Hey. When one of your "shares" is worth like 0.000000001 cents, timing is everything! Haha

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