Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[Bobby Stainless]

So if BTC mining is using as much energy daily as some smaller nations, how is it sustainable? At some point it must stop; what happens to the value then?

Increase scarcity.

[Bromontana]

So if BTC mining is using as much energy daily as some smaller nations, how is it sustainable? At some point it must stop; what happens to the value then?

That's kind of like saying we run out of sunlight at some point. Demand for energy spurs gdp growth, monetary expansion & higher supply. Humans might be sloppy, but we adapt.

[DJSapp]

So if BTC mining is using as much energy daily as some smaller nations, how is it sustainable? At some point it must stop; what happens to the value then?

Nvidia and AMD develope better, faster, more efficient processors and mining takes less energy per transaction.

[Flyoverland Captive]

Nvidia and AMD develope better, faster, more efficient processors and mining takes less energy per transaction.

I’m not so sure that’s gonna happen:

“Miners took advantage of faster, more efficient hardware not to use less electricity but to do more mining. That’s how people always deploy more energy-efficient technologies. It happened with steam. It happened with oil. It's happening with LEDs—they’re more energy-efficient, but their introduction hasn’t reduced overall power used for lighting. People have just installed more, brighter lights. “The greater the value of a bitcoin, the more electricity people will be willing to spend to compete for it,” says Michael Taylor, a computer scientist at the University of Washington. “Increasing the energy efficiency of bitcoin SHA-256 mining hardware helps only sublinearly, as improving energy efficiency simply means people can deploy more miners at the same operating cost.””

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wir...al-warming/amp

[DJSapp]

I’m not so sure that’s gonna happen:

“Miners took advantage of faster, more efficient hardware not to use less electricity but to do more mining. That’s how people always deploy more energy-efficient technologies. It happened with steam. It happened with oil. It's happening with LEDs—they’re more energy-efficient, but their introduction hasn’t reduced overall power used for lighting. People have just installed more, brighter lights. “The greater the value of a bitcoin, the more electricity people will be willing to spend to compete for it,” says Michael Taylor, a computer scientist at the University of Washington. “Increasing the energy efficiency of bitcoin SHA-256 mining hardware helps only sublinearly, as improving energy efficiency simply means people can deploy more miners at the same operating cost.””

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wir...al-warming/amp

In 2009 (Bitcoin creation), the most powerful graphics card Nvidia made, the gtx 295 ran 1192 gflops @ 289 watts. Today a gtx 1080ti runs 10600 gflops @ 250 watts.

More gflops/watt is more energy efficient computing, and a gtx 1080ti isn't even the most efficient miner. Though Moore's law is seeming to slow down, advances in chips will help with the energy consumption.

[4matic]

My suspicion that CME market makers were buying up bitcoin prior to the launch is something to watch.

[that dude who did that thing]

Six days later and I'm STILL waiting for Gemini to verify my identity. Either I'm a lot more slippery than I thought I was, or they are getting absolutely slammed, or their systems actually suck.

Coinbase had my account up and running in a matter of minutes. I realize they offer neither the security nor the services that Gemini will offer, but there's a lot to be said for speed.

[digitaldeath]

Six days later and I'm STILL waiting for Gemini to verify my identity. Either I'm a lot more slippery than I thought I was, or they are getting absolutely slammed, or their systems actually suck.

Coinbase had my account up and running in a matter of minutes. I realize they offer neither the security nor the services that Gemini will offer, but there's a lot to be said for speed.

Bitcoin fever
This is poor financial maneuvering

[that dude who did that thing]

Bitcoin fever
This is poor financial maneuvering

Or cheap entertainment.

Change your perspective and your life will follow.

[digitaldeath]

Or cheap entertainment.

Change your perspective and your life will follow.

Cheeeeep!

[Bobby Stainless]

Six days later and I'm STILL waiting for Gemini to verify my identity. Either I'm a lot more slippery than I thought I was, or they are getting absolutely slammed, or their systems actually suck.

Coinbase had my account up and running in a matter of minutes. I realize they offer neither the security nor the services that Gemini will offer, but there's a lot to be said for speed.

Coinbase is linked to https://www.gdax.com

I have not used Gemini, but gdax is a hell of a lot better than Coinbase.

Ledger Nano S. They were 72 dollars on Amazon. I think they have doubled.

[Benny Profane]

That's kind of like saying we run out of sunlight at some point. Demand for energy spurs gdp growth, monetary expansion & higher supply. Humans might be sloppy, but we adapt.

Dear lord, really? Seriously?

Here.
http://www.theamericanconservative.c...odern-history/

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I still think we see a dip as low at 10k like bromontana pointed out. Who knows when that will happen though. Longtime hodlers will call it another day. The noobs and media will call it a crash. It is gonna scare alot of noobs off who will sell at a big loss. The hodlers will scoop up the cheap coins and live to ride another even higher wave a few months later.

But, the bulls keep diving back in hard on any retracement.

[that dude who did that thing]

Benny, you seem awfully invested in "proving" the point that BTC is a bubble. Of course it's a bubble. I doubt anyone thinks there is anything objectively justifying current trading prices, but so what? Some people make money on bubbles, some people lose money. I don't read anything here indicating that people are sticking their retirement funds in BTC. Instead, a bunch of overpaid dentists are playing games with money they can afford to lose, in the hope they can properly time their exit. some of them will succeed, others will not.

[Bobby Stainless]

I still think we see a dip as low at 10k like bromontana pointed out. Who knows when that will happen though. Longtime hodlers will call it another day. The noobs and media will call it a crash. It is gonna scare alot of noobs off who will sell at a big loss. The hodlers will scoop up the cheap coins and live to ride another even higher wave a few months later.

But, the bulls keep diving back in hard on any retracement.

That would be nice but I doubt it. I have absolutely no data to back that up.

[Bromontana]

Dear lord, really? Seriously?

Here.
http://www.theamericanconservative.c...odern-history/

That guy uses a lot of words to say little.

Anyhow, back to crash scenarios... I was wrong about the 125ema, it's at a shade under 8k and rising. So best case during a strong selloff is dip buy 8k. If it needs lower like the 2015 crash and basing from 1100 to 200, the equivalent now would be around 3500-5000. So that's what I'm prepared for, up to 80% drawdown.

BCH has piqued my interest as a proxy short of btc itself, as well as having more of a transactional value in commerce.

[Benny Profane]

That guy uses a lot of words to say little.

You know, I try not to wish bad upon most people, and, I hope you remain healthy and loved, but, you and a million Chinese people are going to learn the very hard way. You're never going to retire.

Sent from my SM-G900V using TGR Forums mobile app

[Benny Profane]

Benny, you seem awfully invested in "proving" the point that BTC is a bubble. Of course it's a bubble. I doubt anyone thinks there is anything objectively justifying current trading prices, but so what? Some people make money on bubbles, some people lose money. I don't read anything here indicating that people are sticking their retirement funds in BTC. Instead, a bunch of overpaid dentists are playing games with money they can afford to lose, in the hope they can properly time their exit. some of them will succeed, others will not.

Didn't you learn anything from the mortgage bubble? When banks and hedge funds and markets get involved, then we're all vulnerable. Lord only knows how badly some are exposed already, and it's all some crypto secret or something.

The longer it's tolerated as a non fraud and legal exchange, the more the greedy fucks pile on, even the ones who wear expensive suits and live in Ct..

[Bromontana]

Benny, my btc holding is less than one month's net pay. I put 22% of gross in retirement this year. I've spent free time the last five years working on building a portfolio management system that beat the s&p this year by a decent clip. I'm 36, almost own my home, and have less total debt than half of my household annual. Enjoy your private pension as my generation overcomes the challenge of succeeding without that option.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

That would be nice but I doubt it. I have absolutely no data to back that up.

Historically were supposed to see a huge correction and maybe I'm just trying to prepare myself in case it does happen, but the last few weeks have pointed to nothing but up for a while.

[that dude who did that thing]

Didn't you learn anything from the mortgage bubble? When banks and hedge funds and markets get involved, then we're all vulnerable. Lord only knows how badly some are exposed already, and it's all some crypto secret or something.

The longer it's tolerated as a non fraud and legal exchange, the more the greedy fucks pile on, even the ones who wear expensive suits and live in Ct..

What I learned from the housing bubble was that market values of any asset can change, but that fundamentals usually do not. In that case, I learned that not needing to cash out my house, and only using commercial real estate for long-term investment purposes left me in a pretty good spot. I also learned that Americans (and most other nations) were dumb enough to continually make bad choices in the aggregate, even as most people make reasonable choices individually, and there's literally nothing I can do about that (and lord knows I've tried harder than most).

So, if folks like bromontana wantt to play with their money, more power.

[Benny Profane]

I'm 36, almost own my home, and have less total debt than half of my household annual.

Oh, well, carry on then. That's like saying I'm white, born in comfort, never had to take out a student loan, and somehow have nearly paid off a home in a white, priveleged hood at a very young age, which means you had serious help in that endeavor from somebody else. All the while, you had enough time and money and energy to ski a fair amount, a very expensive activity. So, no wonder you're a bit bored and just want to play around.

But, it's not bit players I worry about, it's the big guys who know how to scam the world and get rich at the same time. Who knows, it's so crazy right now, Trump might even bail them out.

[that dude who did that thing]

Benny, so what? Seriously, there's a good chance I'm the most progressive-minded, most politically active person you will communicate with today (and I also have considerable knowledge and understanding of finance and economics). But even I have a hard time getting worked up about whether one group of assholes use bitcoin to take money from another group of assholes. The disconnect between the world of finance and the world of the rest of us schmucks who go to work, earn a half-decent living, raise our families and envision a retirement that does NOT involve driving Ferraris in Italy, is so broad that there is not much reason to care about who skewers who in global financial games, or how they do it. The difference between what you think of as a healthy financial system, and the world of silly bubbles that we have, has so little impact on the lives of most people, that they will continue to actually vote for the world of silly bubbles and think that they are engaged in high finance. So, yeah, it's a bubble, so the fuck what? The serious players know it's a bubble, only idiots are going to sink money they can't afford to lose, and I've little sympathy for people who gamble with money they can't afford to lose.

And in the meantime I made 10% in the last week, with table stakes money. I at least am gambling with money I CAN afford to lose.

[mud]

[wakefield]

How salty can one person get? I'd assume someone who skis understands risk tolerance. Maybe not?

People have this idea that the only way to invest in crypto is to go all in. Sure, that's probably a lot of teenagers and the anarchic crowd. But if you're investing sensibly, you're throwing a small chunk of change at this stuff every month after taking care of the mortgage, retirement accounts, and index funds. It's certainly what I'm doing (minus the mortgage, but not because I already paid off a home).

And if someone's playing with house money, who the hell cares?

On the BTC correction: A pullback to 8-10k would seem reasonable, and I agree there'd be massive media coverage and the requisite freakout by people who went in during the past couple of months. But that kind of pullback is totally normal. I'd be buying. Watching ETH drop from 400 to 150 or so in June-July was helpful there

All of the technical arguments are stacked against Bitcoin, but I don't see it going away or giving up the #1 market cap spot. I just wouldn't put more money in at this price. Same's true for Ethereum for me—given where I started buying, it just seems outside of my comfort zone.