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  1. #3076
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    Yup. Name:  Screenshot_20190611-111401.jpeg
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    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using TGR Forums mobile app

  2. #3077
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    I only take advice from dogs on twitter, good call.

  3. #3078
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    by "fuck all to do with it" you mean it being 2nd generation p2p finance, right?

    1998 - PayPal founded, gen1 p2p reliant on existing infrastructure
    2008 - trust-based banking model collapses
    2009 - bitcoin founded, gen2 trustless p2p network
    ? Um. No.

    I expected more intellectual honesty from you.
    focus.

  4. #3079
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    ? Um. No.

    I expected more intellectual honesty from you.
    You can argue bitcoin will fail based on a number of different constraints. Or you can argue p2p trustless models are doomed for similar reasons. But to deny the line of progression from paper to digital to crypto seems like selective hearing.

    Look at square's app right now. p2p cash transfers, bitcoin & bank connections all next to each other. And the founder is both accumulating btc and hiring bitcoin-focused developers. Name:  20190611_134101.jpeg
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    Success has many fathers, while failure remains an orphan // Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not the fish they are after - HDT

  5. #3080
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontana View Post
    You can argue bitcoin will fail based on a number of different constraints. Or you can argue p2p trustless models are doomed for similar reasons. But to deny the line progression from paper to digital to crypto seems like selective hearing.

    Look at square's app right now. p2p cash transfers, bitcoin & bank connections all next to each other. And the founder is both accumulating btc and hiring bitcoin-focused developers. Name:  20190611_134101.jpeg
Views: 78
Size:  14.4 KB
    Here, Iím just arguing that ACH is not currently destined for imminent failure and crypto is not exactly driving the current innovation in P2P payments. Your example quite clearly shows that itís just trying to tag along for the ride, as much any any other point you think youíre making. Iíd say if anything itís a net distraction from meaningful innovation, but whatevs.

    Also crypto != bitcoin != blockchain. Itís exhausting to argue this stuff when you keep changing what youíre arguing about.
    focus.

  6. #3081
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Well sure. Iím just talking about all bitcoin is crypto, but not all crypto is bitcoin kind of stuff. You know, Sesame Street level logic.
    focus.

  7. #3082
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    The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks

  8. #3083
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    I'm with you on the Sesame Street stuff.

    4 out of 8 top coins are simply Bitcoin forks
    https://crypto.bi/z/threads/4-out-of...in-forks.1186/

    "50% of the top 8 coins are simply money printed out of thin air. In one or two more years we'll have a fourth or fifth version of Bitcoin dangling with several billion U$ market cap and absolutely no purpose"

    LOL.
    So you're admitting that crypto is money? Lol

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using TGR Forums mobile app

  9. #3084
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    If you follow the logic, he was noting crypto as not pressuring ACH evolution. Strange considering crypto is p2p and the next line of progression within p2p (wechat/venmo/paypal are old tech...). I noted bitcoin's place in the p2p space and involvement with a key p2p CEO and he rebuffs with "ZOMG they're not the same." Okay man, strawman away.

  10. #3085
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    Sure - If you have a large fortune and would like to turn it into a small fortune.

    LOL
    Whatever you say. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20190327-173556.jpeg 
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ID:	285426

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using TGR Forums mobile app

  11. #3086
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    It's much more fun watching PG react on mute. Just count the number and timing of the poasts to judge how tweaked he is.

    Something like 60% of his poasts are on this thread!

  12. #3087
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    TGRz pays me in poastcoin.

    Am bullish.

  13. #3088
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    some 0% of his posts add value. He makes no supported arguments, just sky will fall, just you wait.

    Blockchain technology has many uses, and blockchain networks that end up being desirable to use because of certain benefits, (speed, security, anonymity, inventory tracking, building application on top of network, etc) will increase in value. Networks have value. Access to those networks and the ability to use them is granted through tokens, crypto currencies. If you want to use ethereum to track inventory, and you have 1000 items to track, you need at least 1000 ether to track your items. If others all see the benefit provided by the network, and want to use it to track their inventory as well, the value of ether just went up. Crypto currency is only as valuable as the perceived benefits provided by the network they reside in. Bitcoin network has certain perceived benefits. Secure, anonymous, self reinforcing incentives for the different players, and so people want to use the network. the token, bitcoin has value. If more people want to use the network, the value of bitcoin will rise.
    sigless.

  14. #3089
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    A big part of the perception seen among the skeptics here is that benefits of bitcoin & crypto in general are most limited when talking about relatively wealthy residents of developed economies. The further you go out to the fringe, whether it be down the income scale in the developed world or to a much broader spectrum in remote or undeveloped areas, the more pronounced the likely impacts are. So it makes sense for middle/upper class people in the first world to look down on the resource usage & tail risk and say "ya waste of time." A bit of adverse selection inhibits the initial adoption.

  15. #3090
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    A big part of the perception seen among the skeptics here is that benefits of bitcoin & crypto in general are most limited when talking about relatively wealthy residents of developed economies. The further you go out to the fringe, whether it be down the income scale in the developed world or to a much broader spectrum in remote or undeveloped areas, the more pronounced the likely impacts are. So it makes sense for middle/upper class people in the first world to look down on the resource usage & tail risk and say "ya waste of time." A bit of adverse selection inhibits the initial adoption.
    "You know who will benefit most from our electricity and computer network intensive product?
    1) People who live in countries where they can't keep the power on, and
    2) people who can barely afford to put food on the table"

  16. #3091
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    If you have a cell phone you have a bank. No need for ID, no age limits etc. Rural & poor largely qualify.

  17. #3092
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    If you have a cell phone you have a bank. No need for ID, no age limits etc. Rural & poor largely qualify.
    How do they get money from their hand into a bitcoin wallet?

  18. #3093
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyCarter View Post
    How do they get money from their hand into a bitcoin wallet?
    What money?

    Labor * time = a debt to the laborer
    settle with an online payment of an agreed to medium. Bictoin apps are free. Only need access to the app store & a network.
    use mobile to transfer as needed

    No money needed, just a phone. Preferably your own. But not strictly necessary.

  19. #3094
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    If you follow the logic, he was noting crypto as not pressuring ACH evolution. Strange considering crypto is p2p and the next line of progression within p2p (wechat/venmo/paypal are old tech...). I noted bitcoin's place in the p2p space and involvement with a key p2p CEO and he rebuffs with "ZOMG they're not the same." Okay man, strawman away.
    Iím not the one making the ďbitcoin == P2P competitor who is pressuring established payment systemsĒ straw man. Thatís largely fabricated bullshit.

    Easy to say, but also easy to point to the fact that P2P payment systems arenít utilizing bitcoins in any meaningful volume and donít want for anything other than ease of getting money from their bank account to the other personís bank account in real time. That problem hasnít really been solved yet, not simply. Hereís a clue: introducing an unrelated third party non-currency doesnít solve shit. Itís about cost and friction and adoption.

    Nobody actually gives a fuck about getting rid of trusted third parties. No matter how many bitcoin blogs youíre reading.
    focus.

  20. #3095
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    What money?

    Labor * time = a debt to the laborer
    settle with an online payment of an agreed to medium. Bictoin apps are free. Only need access to the app store & a network.
    use mobile to transfer as needed

    No money needed, just a phone. Preferably your own. But not strictly necessary.
    The best medium is the one that is friction-less and stable. Bitcoin is not that. Itís not designed to be that. Why are you so invested in making it that?
    focus.

  21. #3096
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    I’m not the one making the “bitcoin == P2P competitor who is pressuring established payment systems” straw man. That’s largely fabricated bullshit.
    What are your feelings on this as it relates to your argument that crypto doesn't have anything to do with pressuring ACH evolution? You can argue JPM Coin isn't a cryptocurrency - technically I suppose it's not - but to act as though bitcoin has nothing to do with the best bank in the world hastily launching a blockchain coin is a tricky position to maintain.

    Published - February 14, 2019

    J.P. Morgan this month became the first U.S. bank to create and successfully test a digital coin representing a fiat currency. The JPM Coin is based on blockchain-based technology enabling the instantaneous transfer of payments between institutional accounts.
    Ultimately, we believe that JPM Coin can yield significant benefits for blockchain applications by reducing clients’ counterparty and settlement risk, decreasing capital requirements and enabling instant value transfer.
    The JPM Coin isn’t money per se. It is a digital coin representing United States Dollars held in designated accounts at JPMorgan Chase N.A. In short, a JPM Coin always has a value equivalent to one U.S. dollar. When one client sends money to another over the blockchain, JPM Coins are transferred and instantaneously redeemed for the equivalent amount of U.S. dollars, reducing the typical settlement time.
    https://www.jpmorgan.com/global/news...-coin-payments

  22. #3097
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bromontane View Post
    What are your feelings on this as it relates to your argument that crypto doesn't have anything to do with pressuring ACH evolution? You can argue JPM Coin isn't a cryptocurrency - technically I suppose it's not - but to act as though bitcoin has nothing to do with the best bank in the world hastily launching a blockchain coin is a tricky position to maintain.







    https://www.jpmorgan.com/global/news...-coin-payments
    Thatís adorable.

    Your bitcoin bux are awesome, sweetie. You go! The best bank in the world agrees with you!

    Theyíll probably process ten thousand payments with it in the next month alone! Success! Lambos!

    Stick to speculation, dood. Chances are pretty good that youíll be able to find a greater fool. You know lots about that stuff. You donít need it to be true to make moneyz.
    focus.

  23. #3098
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    "Banking," the 3rd Lord Rothschild once remarked, "consists essentially of facilitating the movement of money from Point A, where it is, to Point B, where it is needed." - Niall Ferguson, The House of Rothschild

    All told, I'm struck by the juxtaposition of bitcoin holding such a small portion of the world's wealth while seemingly holding the keys to such a transformative technology. There're quite a few tech innovations that hold massive deflationary potential at the moment. We see it all over tech and I believe it's no different in banking. The existing infrastructure has been made redundant by a 7-page whitepaper & related effort. All using proper incentive alignment & clever engineering. Why not run with it and see where it leads? And along the way vet and dispatch every facile argument that comes your way.

    The kicker is that central banks are largely misinterpreting the deflationary signals as needing responses of expansionary monetary policy. When in fact they simply need to ensure the markets are orderly while innovation* takes care of the rest. Central banks are inadvertently playing into the hands of technologists by pressuring their currencies as better-regulated substitutes come to market... it's laughably stupid & seems like a troll.

    *by innovation I mean true disruption, not taking 50 years to cull a 3-day lead time to 1.

  24. #3099
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    K gravity, here is the 30 second search...
    Maersk (biggest) and the next two largest container companies all track their containers using a shared Blockchain Network. You may not be able to buy their "coins" but they exist.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.com...edger.amp.html

    American Express Blockchain currency transactions. Something like this will displace ach.
    https://www.americanexpress.com/us/f...cial-services/

    Jp Morgan developing "digital dollars" using ethereum platform. Also likely a replacement for ach type ledgers.
    https://media.consensys.net/j-p-morg...n-64f0fe3e55bc

    Now here is a guide for building your own inventory tracking system using ethereum.
    https://cerasis.com/blockchain-in-supply-chain/

    A little company you may have heard of called Microsoft using Bitcoin network to develop a new login system.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.zdn...blockchain-id/


    sent from Utah.
    sigless.

  25. #3100
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    Hi, I've got a #slow #inefficient #wasteful #arcane #blockchain clearing system based off 1979 Merkle Tree technology that has made a resurgence in ponzi circles due to #PriceGoesUp.
    We would like to replace your ACH and systems with it Soonô.

    LOL.

    In 10 years, no one that was an exec today promoting blockchain will even want to mention that on a CV. Programmers and in-the-know CEOs today already know, or are finding out the hard way, Blockchain really sucks.

    It solves nothing that can't be done much better with #legacy systems and the current #free databases.

    #WeeeChat 800 Million money transcations per day -uses legacy db tech.
    #Uber Millions of transactions per second - uses free database tech.

    "The company I work for is rapidly moving all international fund transfers onto a Blockchain Network to speed settlement, reduce costs, and improve transaction security. "

    No. That's a gullibility test to see who they don't want working there long term.

    Hashgraph is pretty interesting, particularly in comparison to blockchain, it won't be replacing ACH though....ever.

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