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  1. #9976
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    "I'll justify a scam by pointing out something which, in my opinion, may also to me resemble a scam. 'Two scams make a right' is the saying I think"

    Well I'll take a page out of your "past performance is a predictor of future performance!" playbook/bible and say that I've never once lost a dollar in anything like what's happened to SOL or the coin you shilled LUNA. Thanks for making me feel so confident!

  2. #9977
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    "I'll justify a scam by pointing out something which, in my opinion, may also to me resemble a scam. 'Two scams make a right' is the saying I think"

    Well I'll take a page out of your "past performance is a predictor of future performance!" playbook/bible and say that I've never once lost a dollar in anything like what's happened to SOL or the coin you shilled LUNA. Thanks for making me feel so confident!
    Thanks for reminding us, once again, that you're as pure as the driven snow.

  3. #9978
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    Dec 2008
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    Here ya go, Boomers. Still no spot ETF, but love that SEC investor protection. Mmmmmmmmmmmm

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/etf-tha...test_headlines

    Financial firm ProShares is ready to roll out the first U.S.-listed short bitcoin futures exchange-traded fund this week, allowing investors to effectively bet against the largest cryptocurrency after its price tumbled below $20,000 over the weekend.

    The Bethesda, Md., firm’s fund, the Short Bitcoin Strategy ETF, will trade on the New York Stock Exchange and go by the ticker BITI.

    The fund launch comes as a brutal selloff in cryptocurrencies has shown no signs of abating. Bitcoin has plunged 56% this year, while ethereum has plummeted 69%, according to CoinDesk data. The total market capitalization of all digital currencies stood at $857 billion on Sunday, well below its peak of nearly $3 trillion last November. As the Federal Reserve has been unwinding its easy-money policies to fight inflation, investors have been dumping more speculative assets.

    Last October, ProShares launched an ETF for bullish bitcoin investors—the ProShares Bitcoin Strategy ETF, the first U.S.-listed bitcoin ETF. The fund trades under the ticker BITO and holds bitcoin futures contracts rather than the cryptocurrency itself. It raised more than $1 billion in assets from investors in two days.

    Bitcoin surged to its record of $67,802 in November shortly after the fund started trading. The fund’s assets have fallen drastically. As of Friday, the futures fund, which holds $643 million in assets, has declined 56% this year, according to Morningstar data.

    The ETF came to market after a yearslong effort by asset managers to create funds that hold actual bitcoins. The Securities and Exchange Commission has rejected applications for ETFs that invest directly in bitcoins because of concerns that bitcoin trading isn’t transparent enough to protect investors from fraud and market manipulation.

    SEC Chairman Gary Gensler has expressed a preference for ETFs that hold bitcoin futures that trade on regulated venues such as the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. But a drawback of futures-based ETFs is that the futures market can sometimes underperform the underlying assets they are supposed to track. Investors and analysts have also raised concerns about the added cost of rolling futures contracts from one month to the next.

    Nate Geraci, president of investment-advisory firm ETF Store, said the short bitcoin futures ETFs are designed to track the opposite performance of the S&P CME Bitcoin Futures Index for a single day only, which means investors will experience tracking error over time. When the index falls, the value of the ETF rises—and vice versa.

    “While the long only bitcoin futures ETFs have done an admirable job of tracking the spot price of bitcoin, the bottom line is that futures-based products aren’t a perfect substitute,” Mr. Geraci said. “Inverse products with a daily reset will only magnify that fact.”

    Michael Sapir, chief executive of ProShares, said the disparity in performance between bitcoin and bitcoin futures has been minimal this year as the futures market has matured.

    “Of course, there can’t be any guarantees,” he said, “but based on how the futures market has been tracking the spot market, we are optimistic that the inverse product will track well as well.”

    ProShares manages more than $65 billion in assets and is among several asset managers that have been jockeying to launch the first ETF that bets against bitcoin futures. Direxion Funds and AXS Investments filed for similar products in April.

  4. #9979
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  5. #9980
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    Here ya go, Boomers. Still no spot ETF, but love that SEC investor protection. Mmmmmmmmmmmm
    ^^Boomers aren't rushing to a <24 hour asset.
    They are also adding a mutual fund version (BITIX), but I haven't seen any details on that yet.

  6. #9981
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile View Post
    ^^Boomers aren't rushing to a <24 hour asset.
    They are also adding a mutual fund version (BITIX), but I haven't seen any details on that yet.
    My comment was for all the haters with no skin in the game who love to say it's going to zero. Now they can short it easily.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

  7. #9982
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    Oct 2006
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    MA
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    I can’t believe how much it’s dropped! How much these con artists are duping these absolute sheep into losing so much money. Need the SEC to step in and protect people from themselves. Tell them what they should do with their own money! For the grace of God!!!!! Stocks and bonds and (gasp) index mutual funds (shriek) are ruining people!


    I’m not a Bitcoin or crypto person at all but the absolute smugness of the told-ya-so naysayers who didn’t make 6x over the last 7 years (including the recent drop that has everyone so hot and bothered) is rich! Put your $ in the short btc etf or pipe down.
    Decisions Decisions

  8. #9983
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    Apr 2006
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    Gareth soloway was calling for a 20k BTC 6 months ago. I wasn't thinking that was possible. Well here we are. He's also calling for a 100k BTC after we bottom, which could be 12k.

    Like cono said, nothing is getting better anytime soon. QT will continue. Everything is going lower, except food and energy.

    I'm going to start a GoFundMe for my gas next ski season

  9. #9984
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    My comment was for all the haters with no skin in the game who love to say it's going to zero. Now they can short it easily.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
    shorting a cult is never easy

  10. #9985
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    May 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Landers View Post
    Put your $ in the short btc etf or pipe down.
    The problem with this is to short you are even more at the whims of a Celsius type provider so if you really are questioning the integrity of crypto... it doesn't make sense to jump in their pool with a leveraged & exposed position you may not even be able to access.

  11. #9986
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Fair enough, don’t short it. I wouldn’t either.
    Decisions Decisions

  12. #9987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Landers View Post
    Think it’s going down?
    I don't think I want an exposed position where there's a loan from these guys and they control my ability to fulfill my end. No thanks.

    I'm way more interested in the human element meets tech limitations of the BTC saga. I think the BTC balancing and controlling levers work in a closed loop environment like a simulation. But the juicy story-line is how miners, investors/users and ultimately, the utility of the tech can play out in world where you don't control influences. I already know it doesn't scale, but is it durable?

    What I'd say now is that BTC has inherent outsized & extreme reactions to optimism, pessimism and external dependencies like energy. Because of that and lack of regulation ensuring one can conduct good-faith trading, a time-bound short is not a sensible investment. If you question the integrity of the entire fickle apparatus - a short only exposes you to more of the risk you are avoiding.

  13. #9988
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    Oct 2002
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    my own little world
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Landers View Post
    I can’t believe how much it’s dropped! How much these con artists are duping these absolute sheep into losing so much money. Need the SEC to step in and protect people from themselves. Tell them what they should do with their own money! For the grace of God!!!!! Stocks and bonds and (gasp) index mutual funds (shriek) are ruining people!


    I’m not a Bitcoin or crypto person at all but the absolute smugness of the told-ya-so naysayers who didn’t make 6x over the last 7 years (including the recent drop that has everyone so hot and bothered) is rich! Put your $ in the short btc etf or pipe down.
    It has nothing to do with line go up or line go down. It’s a negative sum game being used to part the foolish and easily led from their retirement. It’s a ponzi. The arguments for crypto just seem obviously more foolish in light of the “asset” cratering, but they are actually just as absurd when the line is going up.

    Pipe down? Pay to criticize? Why? How is that the bar to discuss BTC? Why do you get to decide that?
    focus.

  14. #9989
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    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    How is it any different than all the BS dot com stocks that never had a dollar in revenue Except they were put in your 401k through index funds.

    Fake stocks.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  15. #9990
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    How is it any different than all the BS dot com stocks that never had a dollar in revenue Except they were put in your 401k through index funds.

    Fake stocks.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    MSTR is the same fucking thing. Same ticker, same CEO, same bullshit.

    Late 90s bubble was a mix of real companies with outrageous long term expectations (CSCO, JDSU), companies valued well before their time that made good (AMZN) too early to make money (pets.com) and fraudulent dog shit

    half of crypto/buttcoin bullshit is people looking at the suck of us banking and not seeing the problem is institutional not technical, the other half is libertarian brainworms

  16. #9991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    It has nothing to do with line go up or line go down. It’s a negative sum game being used to part the foolish and easily led from their retirement. It’s a ponzi. The arguments for crypto just seem obviously more foolish in light of the “asset” cratering, but they are actually just as absurd when the line is going up.

    Pipe down? Pay to criticize? Why? How is that the bar to discuss BTC? Why do you get to decide that?
    I'm just trying to have a retirement. I currently pay a ton of SS taxes and SS may be insolvent by the time I reach retirement. Additionally, I get a giant chunk taken out of my paycheck to pay for our state's public employee pension plan, which is severely underfunded with many extremely generous benefits going to people who don't need them. In the most egregious cases, some multi-millionaires like college football coaches are getting like 80k USD a month on the backs of current workers. But yeah, BTC is the ponzi.

  17. #9992
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  18. #9993
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    Dec 2005
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    11,149
    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    I'm just trying to have a retirement. I currently pay a ton of SS taxes and SS may be insolvent by the time I reach retirement. Additionally, I get a giant chunk taken out of my paycheck to pay for our state's public employee pension plan, which is severely underfunded with many extremely generous benefits going to people who don't need them. In the most egregious cases, some multi-millionaires like college football coaches are getting like 80k USD a month on the backs of current workers. But yeah, BTC is the ponzi.
    didn't realise this is an "either/or" situation

  19. #9994
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    Mar 2019
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    2,100

    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    Quote Originally Posted by stalefish3169 View Post
    I currently pay a ton of SS taxes and SS may be insolvent by the time I reach retirement.
    Everyone who was ever your age 40 years ago has said this. And every other person that age has said it in the subsequent year and so on. And here they are now, collecting their social security checks.

  20. #9995
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    Mar 2006
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    19,814

    Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

    The problem with a “spot” etf is custody and settlement. Futures exchange have that in place. Even the GLD etf has a warehouse with actual gold in it. It can be done but I’m not sure there is a mechanism to back it yet.

  21. #9996
    This thread hits 10k. Is that foreshadowing BTC??

  22. #9997
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    MSTR is the same fucking thing. Same ticker, same CEO, same bullshit.

    Late 90s bubble was a mix of real companies with outrageous long term expectations (CSCO, JDSU), companies valued well before their time that made good (AMZN) too early to make money (pets.com) and fraudulent dog shit

    half of crypto/buttcoin bullshit is people looking at the suck of us banking and not seeing the problem is institutional not technical, the other half is libertarian brainworms
    I participated in the dotcom bubble on both the long/short side. IMO crypto is very similar.

    When you say "half of crypto/buttcoin bullshit is people looking at the suck of us banking and not seeing the problem is institutional not technical, the other half is libertarian brainworms"; I feel you're conservative. I feel that most of the cryptotwitter BS is sunk-cost fallacy and sales/marketing yoga-babble gabfest.

    However, the small percentage of blockchain tech that succeeds will have outside returns.

    That Proshares short fund will be for short term trading; the time decay on their positions will be outrageous.

  23. #9998
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    Nov 2002
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    Cloud City
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    Quote Originally Posted by acostiga View Post
    This thread hits 10k. Is that foreshadowing BTC??
    Oh cool, good eye!
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  24. #9999
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by acostiga View Post
    This thread hits 10k. Is that foreshadowing BTC??
    It's the only thing BTC related which is almost guaranteed to up right, unless Splat comes back from the dead and LUNA's it.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
    This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
    Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague

  25. #10000
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    Apr 2006
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