Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[NakedShorts]

It keeps getting better for the LUNAtics.
Apple Meet Tree

https://twitter.com/WatcherGuru/stat...YSKAVPSOw&s=01

[Mustonen]

I'm not sure about that. I understand the fears around it and why banks would not want to deal with it from a logistical perspective. However, I was under the impression that crypto/blockchain tech literally CUTS all the bloat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with standard wires, banking transactions, credit card transactions, and all the usual shuffling around of funds, aren't there a butt ton of "middlemen" along the way? It is asinine that in the very digital year 2022, that funds can take anywhere from 1 to several business days to officially complete. It all SHOULD occur within milliseconds no matter what you're doing. The techs there. The regulatory and processing burdens however impede that. I thought using BTC et al kind of eliminated some of that intermediary bloat. ESPECIALLY when dealing direct between parties (not using a 3rd party outfit). I could be wrong on this tho. Feel free to school me, friends.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app

Crypto doesn’t solve any of that, except that it has been ducking regulatory burdens. Traditional payments can occur within milliseconds. Real-time payments are a thing. There are tons of lines around them because of consumer fraud protections and liability that falls on those middlemen. Turns out that it is damned scary to send somebody money instantly without a middleman, and a baseline tool to prevent fraud is time. This seems suspicious? Let’s go ahead and put a pause on it for a day or two and see what shakes out.

There used to be a lot of noise about crypto solving the trust problem, and that’s actually basic to its value proposition, but in reality it exacerbates it. I don’t have to trust you to get your money instantly, but I have to trust you a LOT to give you money instantly, immutably.

[schuss]

Crypto doesn’t solve any of that, except that it has been ducking regulatory burdens. Traditional payments can occur within milliseconds. Real-time payments are a thing. There are tons of lines around them because of consumer fraud protections and liability that falls on those middlemen. Turns out that it is damned scary to send somebody money instantly without a middleman, and a baseline tool to prevent fraud is time. This seems suspicious? Let’s go ahead and put a pause on it for a day or two and see what shakes out.

There used to be a lot of noise about crypto solving the trust problem, and that’s actually basic to its value proposition, but in reality it exacerbates it. I don’t have to trust you to get your money instantly, but I have to trust you a LOT to give you money instantly, immutably.

Mostly correct. I'm not the ultimate expert on this stuff, but right now crypto is in the "honeymoon" period where there's not a ton of regulatory burden. For it to be real and usable as a financial currency, they WILL have to comply with things like international Know Your Customer laws and other attestation that's key for international payment flow. Crypto does not cut any bloat out other than not having to use a "bank" to use it, but technically cash is the same way in that you use banks and financial service companies for ease of use. The point of blockchain is instilling a write-forward only record in environments of multiple untrusted parties that uses a consensus mechanism to ensure no one is fucking with the primary record of truth.
It's a really bad fit for currency based on the technical weight I described above, as we currently transfer a lot of that overhead to banks to take care of, which they're generally decent at. I'd say Euro banks are a bit ahead as US banks have slow-walked faster transaction processing as it means updating a lot of process and technology.

[Mustonen]

Mostly correct. I'm not the ultimate expert on this stuff, but right now crypto is in the "honeymoon" period where there's not a ton of regulatory burden. For it to be real and usable as a financial currency, they WILL have to comply with things like international Know Your Customer laws and other attestation that's key for international payment flow. Crypto does not cut any bloat out other than not having to use a "bank" to use it, but technically cash is the same way in that you use banks and financial service companies for ease of use. The point of blockchain is instilling a write-forward only record in environments of multiple untrusted parties that uses a consensus mechanism to ensure no one is fucking with the primary record of truth.
It's a really bad fit for currency based on the technical weight I described above, as we currently transfer a lot of that overhead to banks to take care of, which they're generally decent at. I'd say Euro banks are a bit ahead as US banks have slow-walked faster transaction processing as it means updating a lot of process and technology.

Right. The problem it’s solving is not the primary problem facing traditional payment channels. “DID I send you $100K?” instead of “Are you really you and will you do what you say?” and “How do we resolve a dispute?”

It totally nailed the first while confounding the second and blowing the third away entirely. I.e. it solved A trust problem, but didn’t solve THE trust problem. Regulations are catching up, slowly, but the fourth problem that is still unspoken is the same one at the core of why we don’t advise our grandmas to hide all their cash in their mattress. If you hold it as cash, somebody can take it, and when it’s gone it’s gone. You lose. If you hold it as crypto, somebody can take it, and when it’s gone it’s gone. You lose. If somebody takes all your money out of your bank account, you generally will be made whole by the bank. That third party is not just a necessary evil for payment processing, and that’s not even how it started out in the first place.

[summit]

I wonder how many people in the crypto market are leveraged into it so they can't get out and how many are just mentally leveraged into it so they won't get out?

[dunfree]

I wonder how many people in the crypto market are leveraged into it so they can't get out and how many are just mentally leveraged into it so they won't get out?

given how tightly concentrated crypto wealth is what matters is the portfolios that matter are likely both.

[shera]

I wonder how many people in the crypto market are leveraged into it so they can't get out and how many are just mentally leveraged into it so they won't get out?

If you don't like crypto, don't let the door slam you in the asss.

[Mustonen]

If you don't like crypto, don't let the door slam you in the asss.

But, like, you don’t really mean that. Because you count on broad adoption to drive price and gains since that is the only way those things can be achieved.

That’s what makes the whole space so weird and so reminiscent of pyramid schemes.

[summit]

If you don't like crypto, don't let the door slam you in the asss.

At first I chuckled and wondered why you might take my post so personally.

Then I reread it. To clarify, I don't think that everyone in crypto is trapped either fiscally or mentally, and see how my post might be understood insultingly as such. But I do think some significant portion of speculators are trapped, thus my wonder.

[J. Barron DeJong]

WTF Tether?


https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/stat...PF2X63yRR_ETXQ

If they happen to steal all your money, can’t say they didn’t warn you.

[dunfree]

They think their users are stupid, and they are right

[schuss]

But, like, you don’t really mean that. Because you count on broad adoption to drive price and gains since that is the only way those things can be achieved.

That’s what makes the whole space so weird and so reminiscent of pyramid schemes.

I mean, the whole space is built on artificially manufactured scarcity via the algorithms. There's no intrinsic value or other use for any of it, which is just a massive achilles heel to the whole thing. All it takes is a meaningful uplift in the types of compute that are good at crypto mining and suddenly cost/coin to mine craters. It's a point-in-time play that eventually will fade to obsolescence (barring the mining of the last bitcoin or similar). It feels a bit why NFT's started to come to the fore - maybe if it's something unique that isn't subject to Moore's or any other law, value can be retained.
There's no foundational strength to the space beyond techbros thinking it's cool who happen to have lots of money and others installing some stuff and burning electricity (or storage space, with chia) to create some level of return.

[Art Shirk]

I put 1% of my net worth into crypto awhile back at some solid lows and I plan to check on it in 20 years or so and see if it’s still there. Plenty of less speculative places to make money so it’s just an insurance policy in case there ever really are lambos.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://twitter.com/silvermanjacob/s...PF2X63yRR_ETXQ

Let’s see those diamond hands

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://twitter.com/watcherguru/stat...PF2X63yRR_ETXQ

<this is fine.gif>

[Mustonen]

I bought at $40K. Small sum, you wouldn’t call it a position or an investment, really. In any event, hasn’t worked out terrifically well yet. I was hoping “lambos” and at this point it’s looking more like “bus pass.”

[shera]

Well h3ll, I guess I better see what's going on - fud everywhere.

I don't hold much cel token, I made a chunk of change on it some time back. Now I use it to pay interest on a loan. It sure is beat down, maybe I'll buy some.

I also have a link stack there on Celsius earning interest.

[MultiVerse]

<this is fine.gif>

Attachment 416132

[J. Barron DeJong]

Well h3ll, I guess I better see what's going on - fud everywhere.

I don't hold much cel token, I made a chunk of change on it some time back. Now I use it to pay interest on a loan. It sure is beat down, maybe I'll buy some.

I also have a link stack there on Celsius earning interest.

I wonder how byates and stalefish are doing. Haven’t shown there faces in here in a while…

[shera]

They're not noobs, prolly ok. I seem to get more chatty when the volatility comes, hehe.

So Cel token doubled in the last hour, there was an opportunity, well maybe hasn't bottomed. I might actually buy some, will watch it.

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/05/12...ancial-crisis/

[byates1]

I wonder how byates and stalefish are doing. Haven’t shown there faces in here in a while…

Both of us have posted here daily. What are you talking about?

This is a fantastic time to buy BTC and eth

Buying BTC as we speak.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Both of us have posted here daily. What are you talking about?

This is a fantastic time to buy BTC and eth

Buying BTC as we speak.

I’m aware that you post here daily, that’s why I thought it was odd that you hadn’t posted today.

[shera]

Give unto Caesar...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/05/12...ancial-crisis/

[byates1]

30k seems to be support. I'm guessing we climb from here.