Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[jono]

there is some utility to bitcoin, the coiners even argue it when they talk about evading currency controls, despotic governments, etc. but that use case is small compared to hodlers and ponzi enthusiasts. It’s also generally not a stable dependable use case, like using your BTC reserves to defend your stable coin peg like some banana republic with a currency run

That's always how I've tried to value it: if the supply stabilizes (aka never, since it eventually goes down) the global black market and evasion of local currency laws markets should establish its primary value. Maybe there are others. I'm open minded on that, but so far the banana sales seem unconvincing.

Can lost keys pay for mining costs? I wish pureantigravity was here, I bet he could set forth a ripping good read about how things play out if too many keys get lost.

[MakersTeleMark]

Ok. Please provide your definition of growth (not in price). Preferably one which demonstrably exists, so we don't have to go off on some tangent about whether you've stopped beating your wife.

What if she likes it, Daddy?

[stalefish3169]

Bitcoin is a negative-sum game for everyone who’s not a miner. On average, they’ll all cash out less than they put in.

You’re concerned about people losing money? Well, every time someone cashes out and harvests their big gains, that’s locking in losses for everyone else.

So fuck off with your concern about loses, cause you were bragging about cashing out your gains and paying taxes on them just a week or two ago.

That's literally the whole point of markets.Who buys stonks or anything hoping to sell at a loss?
Adults who chose to take the other sides of my trades made their own decisions. That's much different than the peanut gallery with no skin in the game who come in here to cheer on losses.



Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[dunfree]

That's literally the whole point of markets.Who buys stonks or anything hoping to sell at a loss?
Adults who chose to take the other sides of my trades made their own decisions. That's much different than the peanut gallery with no skin in the game who come in here to cheer on losses.



Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

lol, just a stupid pimp. Damn coiners are dumb

[neckdeep]

That's literally the whole point of markets.Who buys stonks or anything hoping to sell at a loss?
Adults who chose to take the other sides of my trades made their own decisions. That's much different than the peanut gallery with no skin in the game who come in here to cheer on losses.



Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Again, conveniently forgets stock prices have an EPS ratio and, often, dividends. Crypto, nope. No earnings...not even a fucking business plan, ya chump. As long as a business is reasonably profitable, equity has a floor under it. Crypto has no such floor. It's purely market sentiment, a relentless untethered churn of fear and greed. Even a wildly speculative derivative is derivative of something. Crypto has nothing. There is no there, there. As mentioned, if crypto is a stock, its an investment in a company that doesn't exist. Like Truth Social.

[dunfree]

Hey , he’s smart, you shouldn’t feel bad when he gets fucked.

[J. Barron DeJong]

That's literally the whole point of markets.Who buys stonks or anything hoping to sell at a loss?
Adults who chose to take the other sides of my trades made their own decisions. That's much different than the peanut gallery with no skin in the game who come in here to cheer on losses.



Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

I posted the link, then posted the actual text, but I guess you need a bit more handholding so:

As every literate adult should know, when one buys stock from a company… gives him the right of property of a certain percentage of the company — including its assets, and any profits that the company may make in the future.

Similarly, when one buys shares of an ETF based on a physical commodity, like oil, grain, or gold…it is that expectation of revenue from final consumers that gives value to the fund’s shares


Finally, when one buys bonds or or other titles… It is that legally supported expectation of return with interest from the issuing entity that gives value to those tokens.


Because of those sources of revenue external to the body of investors, investing in stocks or commodities is a “positive-sum” game — an endeavor that is expected to give a positive profit to all investors who hold their shares long enough.


…when one buys some bitcoin… That record gives the holder of that private key the right to sell those bitcoins to other investors...
...and that is all. Unlike stocks, bonds, and commodity-based funds, there is no source of revenue that could return the money invested by all bitcoin buyers.


You’re definitely this guy



Will be interesting to see how this plays out when you finally realize what the game is.

[stalefish3169]

Again, conveniently forgets stock prices have an EPS ratio and, often, dividends. Crypto, nope. No earnings...not even a fucking business plan, ya chump. As long as a business is reasonably profitable, equity has a floor under it. Crypto has no such floor. It's purely market sentiment, a relentless untethered churn of fear and greed.

1) There are plenty of stocks that have cooked their books to make EPS look good.

2) There have been numerous stocks that have been horrible for investors including Enron, WeWork, and more recently Peloton and Shopify, etc.

3) Not all stocks pay dividends.

4) You can stake crypto and earn yield.

5) BTC has an excellent "business plan" in the form of its whitepaper.

[4matic]

With regard to the Luna UST crash. “There is never one cockroach”.

Also, COIN misses revenue by 30% and blames volatility? That’s just making stuff up.

[stalefish3169]

I posted the link, then posted the actual text, but I guess you need a bit more handholding so:

As every literate adult should know, when one buys stock from a company… gives him the right of property of a certain percentage of the company — including its assets, and any profits that the company may make in the future.
[FONT="]
[/FONT]Similarly, when one buys shares of an ETF based on a physical commodity, like oil, grain, or gold…it is that expectation of revenue from final consumers that gives value to the fund’s shares[FONT="]


[/FONT]Finally, when one buys bonds or or other titles… It is that legally supported expectation of return with interest from the issuing entity that gives value to those tokens.[FONT="]

[/FONT]
Because of those sources of revenue external to the body of investors, investing in stocks or commodities is a “positive-sum” game — an endeavor that is expected to give a positive profit to all investors who hold their shares long enough.


…when one buys some bitcoin… That record gives the holder of that private key the right to sell those bitcoins to other investors...
...and that is all. Unlike stocks, bonds, and commodity-based funds, there is no source of revenue that could return the money invested by all bitcoin buyers.

I bet everyone who bought Zoom stock is stoked on the sweet dividends they got to make up for the -69% 1 year stock price. Oh wait, Zoom doesn't even pay a dividend.

You guys are comparing apples and oranges. The one thing BTC and stocks do have in common though is they can both be traded by consenting adults who need to do their own research.

[CarlMega]

Lolz.



The futility in justifying, celebrating an inherently a zero-sum-game (pardon me, negative sum game) because there may be bad investments elsewhere.

[J. Barron DeJong]

You guys are comparing apples and oranges.

Yes, exactly! We’re comparing actual investments vs. a purely speculative asset with a baked in net-negative return.

[dunfree]

Yes, exactly! We’re comparing actual investments vs. a purely speculative asset with a baked in net-negative return.

actual investments don’t let you fuck widows and orphans

[stalefish3169]

Yes, exactly! We’re comparing actual investments vs. a purely speculative asset with a baked in net-negative return.

baKEd iN NEt-NegaTivE REtuRn

https://twitter.com/charliebilello/s...83504556335105

[J. Barron DeJong]

baKEd iN NEt-NegaTivE REtuRn

https://twitter.com/charliebilello/s...83504556335105

Ooh, got me! Should I pick some of the worst performing crypto assets to compare?


ETA: Accounting is mostly just adding and subtracting, so it’s always a bit surprising how often it catches people up.

[stalefish3169]

Ooh, got me! Should I pick some of the worst performing crypto assets to compare?


ETA: Accounting is mostly just adding and subtracting, so it’s always a bit surprising how often it catches people up.

DYOR research and buy or don't buy what is best for your own personal situation.

[Mustonen]

baKEd iN NEt-NegaTivE REtuRn

https://twitter.com/charliebilello/s...83504556335105

Madoff Investment Securities outperformed the market too.

Until it didn’t.

The difference between a failed stock and a failed cryptocurrency is that the stock promised to generate long term value based on doing something of value, even if it failed. The crypto was just waiting for the bigger fool to pay more than the prior fool until it ran out of moneyed fools. That’s all it ever promised.

That could be a really long time coming with crypto. Maybe. Its downfall will be loss of interest. And goddamn that can come quick in today’s world. All it will take is something shinier behind it to lure away all the “investors” with more money than they know what to do with. All you with less than 8 to 9 figure investments are just riding coattails.

Fuck. Seriously. This all crashes fast. Maybe not in a few years. Maybe this summer.

[J. Barron DeJong]

DYOR research and buy or don't buy what is best for your own personal situation.

dO yOuR oWn ReSeArCh!!!

I gave you the research explaining quite clearly why Bitcoin is negative sum, and you don’t get it. So obviously there are some issues with DYOR.

[Mustonen]

Also, Do Your Own Research is a tool for building the pyramid. Rely on experts? Fuck. No. That won’t sell BTC. Do your own research. Here is a bunch of propaganda to get you started.

If be interested to see the correlation of DYOR and the topic. Guessing it will lean heavily toward BTC and things like vaccinations and global warming will have bit parts. Pure speculation.

[4matic]

If BTC falls to where the trailing return equals AMZN it’s still been a great investment. Right?

Bitcoin $BTC: +994,608%
Tesla $TSLA: +15,200%
NVIDIA $NVDA: +6,053%
Netflix $NFLX: +2,337%
Amazon $AMZN: +1,427%

[Mustonen]

If BTC falls to where the trailing return equals AMZN it’s still been a great investment. Right?

Bitcoin $BTC: +994,608%
Tesla $TSLA: +15,200%
NVIDIA $NVDA: +6,053%
Netflix $NFLX: +2,337%
Amazon $AMZN: +1,427%

Depends on when you got in, I guess? Anybody have numbers there? How many people (accounting for things like Mt Gox) would come out ahead in that scenario?

[4matic]

Depends on when you got in, I guess? Anybody have numbers there? How many people (accounting for things like Mt Gox) would come out ahead in that scenario?

Like buying NFLX at $700. It’s the context of past performance is no guarantee. Should never really look at that as a metric. There’s only what you own now.

[jono]

DYOR = you can't sue me. Or anyone, because there's no one who's responsible. So DYOR. NFTs belong in that bucket:

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/769...ctant-explorer

[byates1]

Fuck. Seriously. This all crashes fast. Maybe not in a few years. Maybe this summer.

Or sovrign wealth funds like the UAE etc buy BTC. Then, yeah it doesn't crash.

We'll all know in a few years.

[Mustonen]

Or sovrign wealth funds like the UAE etc buy BTC. Then, yeah it doesn't crash.

We'll all know in a few years.

Indeed, we will. I’m not placing bets and a significant investment in BTC is well beyond my risk tolerance. I’m not rooting for failure, I just can’t fathom how it doesn’t.