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  1. #4176
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    Okay, I am not trying to be a Pure Gravity troll, I understand the potential utility of block chain tech. But there are so many "coins" why would or should we hitch our wagons to BitCoin and not one of a thousand others that are much less energy intensive. It kind of feels like tulip mania.

  2. #4177
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    I remember running across M-pesa in Kenya 10-12 years ago and thinking it was sort of mind blowing they had this in Kenya but we didnt have anything comparable in NA.

    Musk just basically said Bitcoin unfeasible to use it in a climate friendly way so is abandoning taking it as payment.

    Does quantum computing solve this issue?

  3. #4178
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinevibes View Post
    Solid read reflecting the true reality for the developing world.
    my experience is old, but plenty of the developing world in Asia or s. America had access to dollars or gold(India is the single largest gold market, you could buy or sell it in.any half large community) or other hard(Er) currency. There’s advantages to digital as mobile spreads, but the coinbro narrative that there was no choice ain’t true.

  4. #4179
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    I remember running across M-pesa in Kenya 10-12 years ago and thinking it was sort of mind blowing they had this in Kenya but we didn’t have anything comparable in NA.

    Musk just basically said Bitcoin unfeasible to use it in a climate friendly way so is abandoning taking it as payment.

    Does quantum computing solve this issue?
    Why is this an issue that needs to be solved? There are countless other cryptos that use less energy.

  5. #4180
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  6. #4181
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    I've read Elon's tweet several times now and maybe I've got rose colored glasses but I like what he said. He specifically targeted coal. If we could just shut down all the coal plants in the usa, then electric cars and bitcoin miners could start getting on the right side of things. Then hit it green energy from the other side with massive solar/wind farms with large scale storage like what they did in Australia and hydro and nuclear, and let oil and gas shrink in a more organic way because is it so political here.

    Anyway, I see a path and Elon is smarter then me.
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  7. #4182
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    x
    Hahaha, you posted that as I was typing...anyway, I am very happy to see some civilized conversation here.
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  8. #4183
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    Yes to civilized conversation. No to blind devotion (not targeting this towards you Shera).

    Elon is smart but also a troll. With a massive level of influence.

    Interesting that a lot of people are confused - he put 1.5B in! How can he then criticize it?!

    What is 1.5B to him? Seriously - look at the bigger picture. Thats like a millionaire putting $10,000 into doge and then saying ha Im just playin this actually is a stupid coin

    If you missed that point you should evaluate if youre paying enough attention to what is driving your confidence - that one was a gimme.

  9. #4184
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    Yes to civilized conversation. No to blind devotion (not targeting this towards you Shera).

    Elon is smart but also a troll. With a massive level of influence.

    Interesting that a lot of people are confused - “he put 1.5B in! How can he then criticize it?!”

    What is 1.5B to him? Seriously - look at the bigger picture. That’s like a millionaire putting $10,000 into doge and then saying “ha I’m just playin this actually is a stupid coin”

    If you missed that point you should evaluate if you’re paying enough attention to what is driving your confidence - that one was a gimme.
    you seem to be confused. Elon didn’t put money in. Tesla did. Then Tesla made money on BTC. And then Elon made lots of money from his Tesla compensation package. The millionaires company put in $10 grand, then the millionaire got $100 grand from the company.

  10. #4185
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    Good point. I was wrong about where the investment $ came from.

    Hes still trolling us all - for his benefit.

  11. #4186
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    my experience is old, but plenty of the developing world in Asia or s. America had access to dollars or gold(India is the single largest gold market, you could buy or sell it in.any half large community) or other hard(Er) currency. There’s advantages to digital as mobile spreads, but the coinbro narrative that there was no choice ain’t true.
    I'm a novice on crpyto, but I think: more options that are essentially universal = better and crypto/digital currency brings more control into the user, at any economic level, to interact and engage with the larger digital and/or global economy. The accessibility of gold, as an alternative to rupee in India is benefit, but you've got a jump through a few hoops to turn that asset into a usable currency for engagement beyond your community/region/country. If the world continues to globalize, digitize and conform to shared standards, the developing world shouldn't be left behind.

  12. #4187
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinevibes View Post
    I'm a novice on crpyto, but I think: more options that are essentially universal = better and crypto/digital currency brings more control into the user, at any economic level, to interact and engage with the larger digital and/or global economy. The accessibility of gold, as an alternative to rupee in India is benefit, but you've got a jump through a few hoops to turn that asset into a usable currency for engagement beyond your community/region/country. If the world continues to globalize, digitize and conform to shared standards, the developing world shouldn't be left behind.
    You are thinking straight! Keep reading and studying. Read the white paper, don't dismiss btc out of hand, it is utterly important. It keeps the rest of the community "honest" and it is the bar to rise above. Simultaneously, engage intellectually with all the exciting things that are happening the space. I am so infatuated with chainlink, giddy, hahaha.

    If you are investing, please start slow, don't let fomo wreck you. I started with what I called "the $100 plan" in 2018 with alts and they all lost 95%, what a joke. I also spent time and money on mining hardware and finally hit pay dirt with bitcoin mining last year and eth this year. I first purchased a small amount of bitcoin early in 2017 and now, 4 years later, finally I've built up a series of real successes. I'm still not rich, but I'm doing ok and I have a level of confidence and maturity.

    So take it slow! Likely you will not get rich this cycle, but you can gain a foothold. It's still early days.
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  13. #4188
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    Quote Originally Posted by shera View Post
    You are thinking straight! Keep reading and studying. Read the white paper, don't dismiss btc out of hand, it is utterly important. It keeps the rest of the community "honest" and it is the bar to rise above. Simultaneously, engage intellectually with all the exciting things that are happening the space. I am so infatuated with chainlink, giddy, hahaha.

    If you are investing, please start slow, don't let fomo wreck you. I started with what I called "the $100 plan" in 2018 with alts and they all lost 95%, what a joke. I also spent time and money on mining hardware and finally hit pay dirt with bitcoin mining last year and eth this year. I first purchased a small amount of bitcoin in 2017 and now, 4 years later, finally I've built up a series of real successes. I'm still not rich, but I'm doing ok and I have a level of confidence and maturity.

    So take it slow! Likely you will not get rich this cycle, but you can gain a foothold. It's still early days.
    Interesting POV.

    Here is the thing, most folks posting here are into Crypto because they want to increase their personal wealth and if as a by product some folks in the 3rd world manage to benefit that is a nice outcome. That said all this with BTC and ETH the rest of Crypto is speculation in hopes of making a killing. Good luck to you all but spare me the good of society song and dance. ETA *** Not directed specifically at you ***

    Same reason I am in the stock market, to increase my personal wealth.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  14. #4189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Interesting POV.

    Here is the thing, most folks posting here are into Crypto because they want to increase their personal wealth and if as a by product some folks in the 3rd world manage to benefit that is a nice outcome. That said all this with BTC and ETH the rest of Crypto is speculation in hopes of making a killing. Good luck to you all but spare me the good of society song and dance.

    Same reason I am in the stock market, to increase my personal wealth.
    Even in the first world we have serious problems with the rich getting richer. The wealthy have built such a powerful moat and crypto is one way to breach it. In the USA, we have this ludicrous red vs blue situation, a successful redirect of the real battle between the haves and the have nots. Sorry to get political, but many people in crypto want to win this fight and realize the american dream and the promise written into the constitution. In that matter we are on the same side as all the "brown" people everywhere here and abroad. You have been played if you think otherwise.

    Sorry for rant, but there it is.
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  15. #4190
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    All the more reason then to move away from Proof-of-Work crypto like bitcoin and adopt efficient crypto technology instead. Because poor air quality largely from fossil fuels is responsible for 1-in-5 infant deaths in sub‑Saharan Africa and is also, one of, if not the leading cause of life years lost in adults.

    You yourself said energy demand is increasing so "deal with it." As long as demand is increasing faster than renewables are being brought online then "getting on the right side of things" is a nonstarter unless we also find ways to do more with less, not more with more.

  16. #4191
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    Are you trying to claim that bitcoin mining is causing infant deaths in Africa? jeebus
    Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
    Henry David Thoreau

  17. #4192
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    Are you unaware of the enormous harm caused by air pollution in third world countries? The poor air quality in China where most of the world's bitcoin mining takes place?

    It would be hyperbole to blame all of that on bitcoin but you're acting as if it doesn't matter.

  18. #4193
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    Chump change compared to some of you Im sure but I just happened to catch this. Wish there was a few more 6s

    Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #4194
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinevibes View Post
    The non-rich in Kenya and much of Africa have been empowered by M-pesa over the last 15 years. Hopefully crypto+blockchain will empower and help equalize things further.
    This is actually a HUGE potential benefit to the developing world. Will explain in a sec in response to dunfree...

    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    my experience is old, but plenty of the developing world in Asia or s. America had access to dollars or gold(India is the single largest gold market, you could buy or sell it in.any half large community) or other hard(Er) currency. There’s advantages to digital as mobile spreads, but the coinbro narrative that there was no choice ain’t true.
    Sure, technically they "have a choice," but you're forgetting a MAJOR factor in the 3rd world that all too frequently holds people back. Corruption. Everyone from the local police to their countries' governments. I have a good friend from a poor Asian country. Lives in a rural village. Guy's doing amazing work serving his community in a wide variety of ways. He's built a thriving school, feeds the poor, etc. Anyway, he always told us NOT to send him money via mail because it would get intercepted. NOT to wire him money because same thing. Happened too many times to him and others. Anyway, my wife and other friends of ours would actually travel there to deliver by hand and spend time volunteering. Really great stuff. Anyway, a few years back the local police got mad. They had some sort of bogus charges saying he was "drug dealing" which is insta-jail in that country with some politicians there trying to push death penalty. Very serious charge. Anyway poor guy rotted in a 3rd world prison for about a year before we could get him out. Wrecked him but thankfully he got back to it doing good works. Great man.

    I have other friends in Africa that it's also difficult to help out for the same reasons. Crypto may be JUST the ticket for getting money around the world without thieving bastards trying to get their hands on it. Really could be a game changer worldwide.

  20. #4195
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    There are also Fintech Apps for that: Remitly and Wise.

    Remitly provides a mobile platform that helps users send money transfers from 17 countries, including the U.S., Canada and Ireland, to more than 100 receiving countries around the world. This includes Mexico, Russia, Egypt, Botswana, El Salvador, and Kenya.

    A cheaper, faster way to send money abroad, Wise is an online money transfer service that moves $6 billion in cross-border transactions every month.

  21. #4196
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    The wealthy have built such a powerful moat and crypto is one way to breach it. In the USA, we have this ludicrous red vs blue situation, a successful redirect of the real battle between the haves and the have nots. Sorry to get political, but many people in crypto want to win this fight and realize the american dream and the promise written into the constitution.
    Other than Crypto being the magic bullet to fix income inequality I agree with a lot of that. But a bunch of 1st worlders day trading on Cryoto is no different than taking a flyer on penny stocks or buying lottery tickets. No reason to apologize for you sincere beliefs BTW.


    Crypto may be JUST the ticket for getting money around the world without thieving bastards trying to get their hands on it. Really could be a game changer worldwide.
    Except for when it is used by people like those that just blackmailed a Pipeline and brought the SE US to a panic?

    Thanks and I will bow out of this now.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  22. #4197
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinevibes View Post
    I'm a novice on crpyto, but I think: more options that are essentially universal = better and crypto/digital currency brings more control into the user, at any economic level, to interact and engage with the larger digital and/or global economy. The accessibility of gold, as an alternative to rupee in India is benefit, but you've got a jump through a few hoops to turn that asset into a usable currency for engagement beyond your community/region/country. If the world continues to globalize, digitize and conform to shared standards, the developing world shouldn't be left behind.
    That’s all true but 90%+ of the developing world has no need of engagement beyond their community region. All of the hard money/anti-inflation stuff doesn’t matter; the poor in Argentina were fucked no matter what. inflation killed the middle class.

    you don’t need any of the crypto stuff for digital transactions. Alipay is huge for life in China but isn’t a currency. Hell europe or down under you just do direct bank transfers at very low cost unlike the shithole us.

    there are some smart people good at making money into crypto - especially if they are into or good at trading/gambling, and there’s a ton of bullshit.

  23. #4198
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    Quote Originally Posted by byates1 View Post
    ada at a dollar ish is cheap
    Bump.

  24. #4199
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    ^ yep. i've got 1800 ada.

    bought 250$ of eth @ 700 ish in the fall, converted that into ada the other day. in addition to the 1400$ the gov sent me. so 1800 ada cost me 250$ us. .06 a token.

    go charles!

  25. #4200
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    What do you think? Big tax changes, even crypto-to-crypto is now taxable in many places.

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    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman  Big Billie Eilish fan.
    But that's a quibble to what PG posted (at first, anyway, I haven't read his latest book) ―jono

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