Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

**J. Barron DeJong** · 06-02-2023, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

With BTC, nobody can stop you from sending a transaction with your own money. So your argument is moot.

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Sure it is. How many transactions can BTC handle?

Right, so now you need off-chain transactions which opens you up to fuckery.

**stalefish3169** · 06-03-2023, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Sure it is. How many transactions can BTC handle?

Right, so now you need off-chain transactions which opens you up to fuckery.

Bitcoin reaches final settlement much much faster than most tradfi transactions (about 30-60 minutes versus several days). This is especially relevant for the type of transactions (large, infrequent) like those mentioned in the Apple article. And of course we're seeing lots of banks are refusing to process large transactions or allow people to withdrawal their own money.

You keep making a straw man argument. It's going to be a long time, probably like a decade plus, until BTC and second layer solutions are making many high-volume transactions. However, BTC excels today at sending relatively infrequent large and/or critical payments.

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**mcphee** · 06-03-2023, 04:24 PM

Those 100 BTC transactions to the cartels are pretty critical, I’ll give you that.

**J. Barron DeJong** · 06-03-2023, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

Bitcoin reaches final settlement much much faster than most tradfi transactions (about 30-60 minutes versus several days). This is especially relevant for the type of transactions (large, infrequent) like those mentioned in the Apple article. And of course we're seeing lots of banks are refusing to process large transactions or allow people to withdrawal their own money.

You keep making a straw man argument. It's going to be a long time, probably like a decade plus, until BTC and second layer solutions are making many high-volume transactions. However, BTC excels today at sending relatively infrequent large and/or critical payments.

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If Bitcoin was to replace traditional bank transactions - even a small percentage of them - that settlement time becomes astronomical.

The settlement time in trad-fi is a deliberate choice, and unlimited transactions can occur in that period of time.

Bitcoin transaction rate is a hard cap. Exceed that rate, and transactions back up, and back, up, and back up, forever, until the transaction rate comes back down below the max rate the blockchain can handle. Which would be, uh, never, in the case where it started to replace trad-fi.

I feel like we’ve been over this before?

**Mustonen** · 06-03-2023, 04:37 PM

It’s adorable to imagine that BTC introduces some new paradigm of fast settlement unreachable by other technologies.

Talk about strawman arguments. Articulate how current settlement times are actually an issue for your everyday transactions. And why losing fraud protections would be a desirable trade off for faster settlement?

Actually don’t. You don’t know anything about this and nobody cares about whatever bullshit you’d spin up.

**mcphee** · 06-03-2023, 05:47 PM

But, it’s going to even the playing field for folks in third world countries, bring about new green energy by breaking current infrastructure, and help stalefish not be a poor even though he never would be given his current salary & profession

**stalefish3169** · 06-03-2023, 05:48 PM

Transactions per minute don't matter if a custodian is blocking them.

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**stalefish3169** · 06-03-2023, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

You don’t know anything about this and nobody cares about whatever bullshit you’d spin up.

Yet you keep responding to my posts. Curious.

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**mcphee** · 06-03-2023, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

Transactions per minute don't matter if a custodian is blocking them.

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Blocking or making sure they’re on the up and up and all parties are protected?

Potato, potahto I guess. Anyways, gimme like 22 of them shits, you really know how to shuck em.

**stalefish3169** · 06-03-2023, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by mcphee

But, it’s going to even the playing field for folks in third world countries, bring about new green energy by breaking current infrastructure, and help stalefish not be a poor even though he never would be given his current salary & profession

It's not breaking current infrastructure. ERCOT is pro-BTC.

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**Mustonen** · 06-03-2023, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

Transactions per minute don't matter if a custodian is blocking them.

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Yeah, because you must move $20k to this other checking account that is a new relationship immediately urgently DO IT NOW because … nobody actually needs to do that who isn’t a scammer. In almost every circumstance where this is a legitimate need it’s due to poor planning and a complete misapprehension re: how trust systems work.

I would actually be in favor of a crypto system where transactions are reversible upon arbitration by a trusted third party. That might have legs. But that isn’t even a little bit of the argument.

**J. Barron DeJong** · 06-03-2023, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Yeah, because you must move $20k to this other checking account that is a new relationship immediately urgently DO IT NOW because … nobody actually needs to do that who isn’t a scammer. In almost every circumstance where this is a legitimate need it’s due to poor planning and a complete misapprehension re: how trust systems work.

I would actually be in favor of a crypto system where transactions are reversible upon arbitration by a trusted third party. That might have legs. But that isn’t even a little bit of the argument.

I can’t count the number of times I’ve needed to move large sums of money in under a day.

Like, literally can’t count them, cause it never happens for any normal person.

**J. Barron DeJong** · 06-03-2023, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by mcphee

… and help stalefish not be a poor

This is the only one that matters. Every other argument is in service to this goal.

**mcphee** · 06-03-2023, 06:34 PM

I’m a sucker for feel good stories so let me get 23 BTC.

**byates1** · 06-03-2023, 06:42 PM

We're all gonna die.

**Bunion 2020** · 06-04-2023, 07:02 AM

Some day.

**stalefish3169** · 06-04-2023, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Yeah, because you must move $20k to this other checking account that is a new relationship immediately urgently DO IT NOW because … nobody actually needs to do that who isn’t a scammer. In almost every circumstance where this is a legitimate need it’s due to poor planning and a complete misapprehension re: how trust systems work.

I would actually be in favor of a crypto system where transactions are reversible upon arbitration by a trusted third party. That might have legs. But that isn’t even a little bit of the argument.

So what happens when the pendulum swings back the other way and the trusted third party starts blocking transactions for abortions?

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**byates1** · 06-04-2023, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

Some day.

not me buddy, i can catch the moon in my hand. imna live forever

**J. Barron DeJong** · 06-04-2023, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

So what happens when the pendulum swings back the other way and the trusted third party starts blocking transactions for abortions?

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I’ll go to the bank and take out some cash?

**stalefish3169** · 06-04-2023, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

I’ll go to the bank and take out some cash?

The same people that are trying to kill crypto are actively working to get rid of cash. Its days are numbered. So your argument is untenable on a long-term timescale.

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**S_jenks** · 06-04-2023, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

The same people that are trying to kill crypto are actively working to get rid of cash. Its days are numbered. So your argument is untenable on a long-term timescale.

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Cash ain’t ever going away in the USA.

**mcphee** · 06-04-2023, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

The same people that are trying to kill crypto are actively working to get rid of cash. Its days are numbered. So your argument is untenable on a long-term timescale.

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Check and mate, sir! I’d like to see ol J Barron de Jong wriggle his way out of THIS jam!

Sign me up for 24. And I’d like them in coins please. That way, when the miner next door blows up the transformer again I can walk down to the corner store and grab a sixer.

**byates1** · 06-04-2023, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by S_jenks

Cash ain’t ever going away in the USA.

It just did to the tune of 10% plus a year. Everything you want to buy exploded in price, hence the same cash no longer buys what you want. Didn't you just get priced out of Missoula?

Hope things are good in Washington

**mcphee** · 06-04-2023, 01:47 PM

Interesting. So you’re saying in 10 years 100% of all cash will just be gone? Whoa. I better up my order to 25.

**byates1** · 06-04-2023, 02:33 PM

The hurdle rate is supposed inflation. But everyone has their own inflation rate. Look at houses, cars, food etc. Inflation is not 5% for desirable things.

Like adult diapers, it depends.