Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[garyfromterrace]

I just Googled "post-quantum cryptography" and "post-quantum cryptocurrency." Looks like the biggest concern for BTC is the public keys being on the public blockchain. Fork BTC and replace the PoW algo with a different post-quantum algo. Open source server node that was backwards-compatible with the old BTC, and would replace output with new algo?

Personally, I can't get past the energy inefficiency aspect of the existing PoW algo. And any centralized implementation is similar to existing transaction systems, only with zero regulation and protection.

What fucking language is this? Jesus, I figured I was a clueless moran, thanks for the verification.

I'm doomed....

[digitaldeath]

I just Googled "post-quantum cryptography" and "post-quantum cryptocurrency." Looks like the biggest concern for BTC is the public keys being on the public blockchain. Fork BTC and replace the PoW algo with a different post-quantum algo. Open source server node that was backwards-compatible with the old BTC, and would replace output with new algo?

Personally, I can't get past the energy inefficiency aspect of the existing PoW algo. And any centralized implementation is similar to existing transaction systems, only with zero regulation and protection.

as soon as a quantum computer is turned on the singularity happens and everything is nothing

[couloirman]

Bittrex is not accepting new registrations and Im trying to buy me some neo. Where can I do it? Anywhere else or just wait it out?

[stalefish3169]

Bittrex is not accepting new registrations and Im trying to buy me some neo. Where can I do it? Anywhere else or just wait it out?

Click on markets at CMC and you can see all of the exchanges coins are traded on.

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[jono]

I just Googled "post-quantum cryptography" and "post-quantum cryptocurrency." Looks like the biggest concern for BTC is the public keys being on the public blockchain. Fork BTC and replace the PoW algo with a different post-quantum algo. Open source server node that was backwards-compatible with the old BTC, and would replace output with new algo?

Personally, I can't get past the energy inefficiency aspect of the existing PoW algo. And any centralized implementation is similar to existing transaction systems, only with zero regulation and protection.

If I understand you right, they would fork to move to a more complex algorithm that quantum computers still have difficulty solving--which means sending larger packets over the net, which isn't going to be significantly quicker or more efficient post-quantum, right? I'm not seeing a way for public-key encrypted content to move securely in small packets post quantum, is that possible?

Quantum seems to present a significant downside for any (current) form of public/private key encryption, but private/private keys can solve that for communication between known parties. ("One time pad" random key encryption is still the simplest and most secure encryption known, if I'm not mistaken.) So while quantum computing would be a huge risk for public blockchains, it would also provide the solution to, say, secure credit card transactions, by enabling much more complex (private) algorithms to be run at both ends--so BTC is at risk just as Visa becomes more secure because non-anonymous systems can send some of their secrets in the mail, for example.

Seems like ditching anonymity for efficiency is the biggest possible change to crypto. My impression is that they are bigger worshippers of Diffie and Hellman than von Mises. The cleverness of being able to generate 'private' secrets between anonymous parties is just too alluring to let it go. I'd bet on them recognizing that large hodlers have to act to stabilize valuation (aka an anonymous central bank) before they give up on anonymity, and obviously those both seem unlikely.

[GoldMember]

I haven't gone through this thread so this may have already been posted but, this explanation of Bitcoin is the best description I've seen to date.

[Skidog]

Loving the ibm block chain commercials. They know what's up.....wave of the future for supply chain management.

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[Bromontana]

Hole

[digitaldeath]

Little bro and I are are still waiting. The pig is bleeding out it seems. I think 4-6k with a nice base building summer would be great for satoshi. Hoping I can buy then and turn 0.25btc into 1btc for the next run. We shall see.

Ha ya unless it hits zero which is inevitable

The neckbeards never win outside of video gaming and hareasingn women

[Bromontana]

Falling

[shroom]

Loving the ibm block chain commercials. They know what's up.....wave of the future for supply chain management.

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lol, as if manufacturers/distributors want improved transparency? naw, they’d rather be able to leak/allocate as desired vs plan more accurately.

advanced solutions for traceability and inventory provenance exist, are expensive, and remove a lot of leverage for some parties (read: are hardly adopted)

throwing new tech at the same problem

[summit]

If the global markets closed down 7%, alarm bells would be ringing.

Crypto market cap is off 7% again and nobody even fucking blinks... not even double digits.

Do you know what happen when a major currency is off 7%? I think the biggest EUR/USD day ever was 1/2 that!

Sure bet. Currency of the future. Hah!

[Skidog]

lol, as if manufacturers/distributors want improved transparency? naw, they’d rather be able to leak/allocate as desired vs plan more accurately.

advanced solutions for traceability and inventory provenance exist, are expensive, and remove a lot of leverage for some parties (read: are hardly adopted)

throwing new tech at the same problem

You watch.

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[digitaldeath]

Btc folks so greasy

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[Kinnikinnick]

Miraculously every time BTC gets below $10k it bounces back up. Being defended by shady vested interest entities with questionable backing and 0 transparency?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MwKYbT9MoPE


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[stalefish3169]

Miraculously every time BTC gets below $10k it bounces back up. Being defended by shady vested interest entities with questionable backing and 0 transparency?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MwKYbT9MoPE


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

So you prefer these upstanding individuals? Keep fighting the good fight man.

https://thinkprogress.org/bank-of-am...mpression=true

Bank of America has eliminated its free checking account program, a service that was popular with many low-income customers looking to avoid extra fees for having a low balance.

Beginning this month, all eBanking customers will face a $12 monthly fee unless the customer has a direct deposit of $250 or more or a minimum balance of $1,500. The process of switching over Bank of America customers to this service began as early as 2015. The bank does have a checking account geared towards low-income customers that charges only a $4.95 monthly fee, but it doesn’t allow customers to write paper checks, a financial necessity in the lives of some individuals.


Nearly 46,000 individuals have signed a Change.org petition pleading with the bank to keep the free checking account option.


“Many low income families do not meet these requirements. There have been times where I’ve only had $10 to my name. That wouldn’t even cover the maintenance fee,” the petition states. “Bank of America was one of the only brick-and-mortar bank that offered free checking accounts to their customers.”

A monthly fee of $12 could cause some customers to overdraft on their accounts, resulting in even more fees. Overdraft fees collectively cost consumers over $15 billion annually, and around 18 percent of account holders pay three or more overdraft fees a year, with half of that group paying 10 or more fees a year. These fees have caused some financially unstable individuals to skip banking altogether, largely affecting black, lower-income customers.

Overall, some 9.6 million, or seven percent of all Americans, manage their finances without a bank account, according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). Of those, 18.7 percent are families earning under $30,000, compared to only 1.1 percent of families earning over $50,000. Eighteen percent of black individuals are without a bank, compared to only 3 percent of whites.

Bank of America, the second-largest U.S. bank by assets, claims this move is the latest change in its quest to “[streamline] the company by exiting business lines and shedding ‘non-core’ products.” The bank’s CEO, Brian Moynihan, is pushing the bank to do business primarily with customers who have high credit scores. According to the Charlotte Observer, Moynihan told investors and analysts last week during the bank’s fourth-quarter earnings conference call that their focus remains on “prime” and “super prime” borrowers with average credit scores of at least 760.

Meanwhile, Bank of America, along with the rest of the country’s top banks, will get a significant tax windfall from the recently passed Republican tax bill — a $3.5 billion tax windfall, to be exact, according to a Goldman Sachs report obtained by ThinkProgress.

The bank, along with Wells Fargo, Boeing, and other corporations and banks, was praised by the White House for using their tax savings to help their employees in the form of bonuses. The one-time, $1,000 bonuses for their 145,000 employees, however, is a drop in a bucket when compared to the $3.5 billion the bank is expected to reap from the tax bill.





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[summit]

Miraculously every time BTC gets below $10k it bounces back up. Being defended by shady vested interest entities with questionable backing and 0 transparency?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MwKYbT9MoPE

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

It's happened before... why would it stop now?

[MakersTeleMark]

We have strong support here.

[Kinnikinnick]

So you prefer these upstanding individuals? Keep fighting the good fight man.

https://thinkprogress.org/bank-of-am...mpression=true


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Oh come on. It’s either Bullshit coin supported with an opaque and centralized system of de facto fiat currency (tether). Or it’s Bank of America ? That’s the extent of choice?

Come on, that shows the basic extent of the Crypto phenomenon - hopeful techno utopian thinking. It’s different than the current banking system, so it must be better.

Do you understand the implication of what Tether is? It’s a private system that has no visibility into its actual books that gives you imaginary currency denominated in “USDT”that cannot be redeemed into USD or other bankable currency. They can, do, and have been printing “money” out of thin air - precisely one of the main arguments for BTC - that it can’t be printed endlessly. They then use this printed imaginary USDT to buy BTC et al. And all this miraculously props up the BTC and other crypto market valuations.

Doesn’t at all sound like market manipulation to you? Doesn’t at all sound like the precisely the unlimited printing of money that BTC evangelists have decried in govt fiat currencies and claim their thing is better than?



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[stalefish3169]

Oh come on. It’s either Bullshit coin supported with an opaque and centralized system of de facto fiat currency (tether). Or it’s Bank of America ? That’s the extent of choice?

Come on, that shows the basic extent of the Crypto phenomenon - hopeful techno utopian thinking. It’s different than the current banking system, so it must be better.

Do you understand the implication of what Tether is? It’s a private system that has no visibility into its actual books that gives you imaginary currency denominated in “USDT”that cannot be redeemed into USD or other bankable currency. They can, do, and have been printing “money” out of thin air - precisely one of the main arguments for BTC - that it can’t be printed endlessly. They then use this printed imaginary USDT to buy BTC et al. And all this miraculously props up the BTC and other crypto market valuations.

Doesn’t at all sound like market manipulation to you? Doesn’t at all sound like the precisely the unlimited printing of money that BTC evangelists have decried in govt fiat currencies and claim their thing is better than?



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Tether is likely a scam. I never said it was good or that I supported it. Not sure why you're using it to argue against me. Take a lap.

[summit]

$9000-$13000 in the course of a week... its a CURRENCY

[neckdeep]

Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

Researchers Neil Gandal, JT Hamrick, Tyler Moore, and Tali Oberman have written a fascinating paper on Bitcoin price manipulation. Entitled “Price Manipulation in the Bitcoin Ecosystem” and appearing in the recent issue of the Journal of Monetary Economics the paper describes to what degree the Bitcoin ecosystem is controlled by bad actors.

To many it’s been obvious that the Bitcoin markets are, at the very least, being manipulated by one or two big players. “This paper identifies and analyzes the impact of suspicious trading activity on the Mt. Gox Bitcoin currency exchange, in which approximately 600,000 bitcoins (BTC) valued at $188 million were fraudulently acquired,” the researchers wrote. “During both periods, the USD-BTC exchange rate rose by an average of four percent on days when suspicious trades took place, compared to a slight decline on days without suspicious activity. Based on rigorous analysis with extensive robustness checks, the paper demonstrates that the suspicious trading activity likely caused the unprecedented spike in the USD-BTC exchange rate in late 2013, when the rate jumped from around $150 to more than $1,000 in two months.”

The team found that many instances of price manipulation happened simply because the market was very thin for various cryptocurrencies including early Bitcoin. “Despite the huge increase in market capitalization, similar to the bitcoin market in 2013 (the period examined), markets for these other cryptocurrencies are very thin. The number of cryptocurrencies has increased from approximately 80 during the period examined to 843 today! Many of these markets are thin and subject to price manipulation.”

The manipulation happened primarily via two bots, Markus and Willy, that seemed to be performing valid trades but did not actually own the bitcoin they were using. During the Mt. Gox hack a number of these bots were able to create fake trades and make off with millions while manipulating the price of BTC.

The publicly reported trading volume at Mt. Gox included the fraudulent transactions, thereby signaling to the market that heavy trading activity was taking place. Indeed, the paper later shows that even if the fraudulent activity is set aside, average trading volume on all major exchanges trading bitcoins and USD was much higher on days the bots were active. The associated increase in “non-bot” trading was, of course, profitable for Mt. Gox, since it collected transaction fees.

But the Willy Bot likely served another purpose as well. A theory, initially espoused in a Reddit post shortly after Mt. Gox’s collapse (Anonymous, 2014b), is that hackers stole a huge number (approximately 650,000) of bitcoins from Mt. Gox in June 2011 and that the exchange owner Mark Karpales took extraordinary steps to cover up the loss for several years.

The bottom line is simple: if Bitcoin wants to be taken seriously it probably shouldn’t be this easy or legal to manipulate the markets. While decentralization is supposed to replace regulation it’s clear that there is still a way to go before it can be truly taken seriously. “As mainstream finance invests in cryptocurrency assets and as countries take steps toward legalizing bitcoin as a payment system (as Japan did in April 2017), it is important to understand how susceptible cryptocurrency markets are to manipulation. Our study provides a first examination,” write the researchers.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/15/re...m-150-to-1000/

[neckdeep]

So you prefer these upstanding individuals? Keep fighting the good fight man.

https://thinkprogress.org/bank-of-am...mpression=true

Bank of America has eliminated its free checking account program, a service that was popular with many low-income customers looking to avoid extra fees for having a low balance.

Beginning this month, all eBanking customers will face a $12 monthly fee unless the customer has a direct deposit of $250 or more or a minimum balance of $1,500. The process of switching over Bank of America customers to this service began as early as 2015. The bank does have a checking account geared towards low-income customers that charges only a $4.95 monthly fee, but it doesn’t allow customers to write paper checks, a financial necessity in the lives of some individuals.


Nearly 46,000 individuals have signed a Change.org petition pleading with the bank to keep the free checking account option.


“Many low income families do not meet these requirements. There have been times where I’ve only had $10 to my name. That wouldn’t even cover the maintenance fee,” the petition states. “Bank of America was one of the only brick-and-mortar bank that offered free checking accounts to their customers.”

A monthly fee of $12 could cause some customers to overdraft on their accounts, resulting in even more fees. Overdraft fees collectively cost consumers over $15 billion annually, and around 18 percent of account holders pay three or more overdraft fees a year, with half of that group paying 10 or more fees a year. These fees have caused some financially unstable individuals to skip banking altogether, largely affecting black, lower-income customers.

Overall, some 9.6 million, or seven percent of all Americans, manage their finances without a bank account, according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC). Of those, 18.7 percent are families earning under $30,000, compared to only 1.1 percent of families earning over $50,000. Eighteen percent of black individuals are without a bank, compared to only 3 percent of whites.

Bank of America, the second-largest U.S. bank by assets, claims this move is the latest change in its quest to “[streamline] the company by exiting business lines and shedding ‘non-core’ products.” The bank’s CEO, Brian Moynihan, is pushing the bank to do business primarily with customers who have high credit scores. According to the Charlotte Observer, Moynihan told investors and analysts last week during the bank’s fourth-quarter earnings conference call that their focus remains on “prime” and “super prime” borrowers with average credit scores of at least 760.

Meanwhile, Bank of America, along with the rest of the country’s top banks, will get a significant tax windfall from the recently passed Republican tax bill — a $3.5 billion tax windfall, to be exact, according to a Goldman Sachs report obtained by ThinkProgress.

The bank, along with Wells Fargo, Boeing, and other corporations and banks, was praised by the White House for using their tax savings to help their employees in the form of bonuses. The one-time, $1,000 bonuses for their 145,000 employees, however, is a drop in a bucket when compared to the $3.5 billion the bank is expected to reap from the tax bill.





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Another horrible analogy. A deposit at Bank of America is FDIC insured up to $250,000. What recourse do crypto speculators have? Nothing. It's the perfect recipe for a good ol' run on the banks. Yeah, i know you aren't fluent in history and are too young to know or care what a run on the bank is. Everything is virtual now, nobody actually "runs" to the bank anymore, thus history has stopped and basic principles of market psychology no longer apply.

[Kinnikinnick]

$9000-$13000 in the course of a week... its a CURRENCY

Get in now or it’s going to be $100,000 by year end and you’ll be paying 10X as much for all the stuff that you’ll need to buy with BTC!

The new currency - ever rising in value!


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[digitaldeath]

you guys are demented

the fucking central planners wont allow btc to hit 100k

gimme a break