Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

**stalefish3169** · 01-18-2018, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by 4matic

How does a technology partnership make the Stellar tokens more valuable?

That remark was regarding quantum computing...at which IBM is a leader.

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**Skidog** · 01-18-2018, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

I can just picture you two Luddites on the beach at Kitty Hawk laughing at the Wright Brothers.

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guess you dont read the same articles i have been reading...all come from bitcoin/blockchain supporters and yeah...they say the same thing about speed and centralization being necessary for faster transactions. But keep dreaming...im sure this is your get rich quick scheme, and this one will be "the one".

**summit** · 01-18-2018, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Skidog

I have it on good authority we will likely see quantum in the pretty near future, IBM is close and yep...it could turn the whole bitcoin thing into a juggernaut.

juggernaut... or allow several orders of magnitude of ease in mining, breaking of SHA256 or vastly outclass the processing power on the network... basically many avenues to compromise

Quantum could potentially make all current cyrpto obsolete and insecure! You could come up with new crypto...

**4matic** · 01-18-2018, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

That remark was regarding quantum computing...at which IBM is a leader.

I get that but why would that partnership make the stellar coin offering more valuable? Do tokens act like an equity investment in the underlying business?

If IBM buys Stellar do the tokens get acquired in the deal?

**stalefish3169** · 01-18-2018, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Skidog

guess you dont read the same articles i have been reading...all come from bitcoin/blockchain supporters and yeah...they say the same thing about speed and centralization being necessary for faster transactions. But keep dreaming...im sure this is your get rich quick scheme, and this one will be "the one".

I don't think I've been overly critical of some centralization. It's naive to claim there won't be a decent amount of it. We have strong governments.

I don't view this as a get rich quick scheme. I'm a programmer myself and I largely believe in the tech. I don't day trade. This is a multi-year thing for me at least.

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**Skidog** · 01-18-2018, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

I don't think I've been overly critical of some centralization. It's naive to claim there won't be a decent amount of it. We have strong governments.

I don't view this as a get rich quick scheme. I'm a programmer myself and I largely believe in the tech. I don't day trade. This is a multi-year thing for me at least.

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I am in tech as well, systems side, and I firmly believe that blockchain tech is awesome, I just dont believe in the "coin" as a currency. So we sorta agree....I am surely not alone in my beliefs.

**summit** · 01-18-2018, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Skidog

I am in tech as well, systems side, and I firmly believe that blockchain tech is awesome, I just dont believe in the "coin" as a currency. So we sorta agree....I am surely not alone in my beliefs.

Exactly...

BTC is secure because it is too much work, which is why insecurity involves indirect attacks (exchanges etc).

Expecting BTC to hold value and be secure longterm is lunacy.

Anyone using DES 56bit encryption these days? Of course not! I remember running distributed.net for a while in the late 90s before switching over to SETI@home

As a store of value or means of transaction, cyrpto is pretty useless. Therefore, it is not a currency!

Blockchain technology, however, is of great use.

**Kinnikinnick** · 01-18-2018, 11:45 AM

I think some of the core of the technology and concept will be the future of transactions, assets, and even currencies. But like Napster I think the current business model as it were is for shit.

It’s currently a criminal , despot, speculator, and tax evaders paradise. Unless the capability to support tax reporting can be incorporated then I just can’t see how the US Govt can possibly let it continue as is. And if they do that, is there a value as wildly high as is currently prices, or does that basically undermine the main value.

Right now some guy who bought at $100 BTC is supposed to report the profit if he sells at $14k, but why would he since it’s all anonymous. At best it distorts the broader asset markets as people price in no need to pay taxes, at worst it’s a haven for the K Jung Un Putin’s and mafiosos if the world.

Why in the world wouldn’t regulatory bodies shut it down or demand auditing for tax reporting. Fuck they can look into Swiss bank accounts now, why would they let this slide?

As far as being a currency, thats total BS. Shit can’t be priced in BTC or Ether it any of that shit because of the wild price swings. It’s a libertarian moronity to think that only devaluation of a currency is a problem. STABILITY makes the best currency.

Again, some future implementation, yes.

How about one where the price as it were is tied to a basket of currencies and assets. USD, GBP, Gold, DOW, Oil, etc such that wild price swings in one or a few doesn’t overly inflate or deflate the currency. STABILITY. Then if you can deliver fast transactions at low cost, provide sufficient regulatory insight to the block data, etc. the. It had legs. But frankly that just sounds to me a lot like a bank with a diversified asset allocation.

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**summit** · 01-18-2018, 12:43 PM

@kinnlklnnick

No no! You see! Any crypto is supply limited! The value can only go UP! (and down and up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down and up)

Until the bubble pops due to proliferation of competing cryptos... or the crypto compromised by computing advances, whichever comes first...

And yes it is a libertarian flight of fancy.... but remember a hard core libertarian views taxation as a violent act of theft and the mafia only exists because of government interference in the free market.

**ICantLogIn** · 01-18-2018, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick

I think some of the core of the technology and concept will be the future of transactions, assets, and even currencies. But like Napster I think the current business model as it were is for shit.

It’s currently a criminal , despot, speculator, and tax evaders paradise. Unless the capability to support tax reporting can be incorporated then I just can’t see how the US Govt can possibly let it continue as is. And if they do that, is there a value as wildly high as is currently prices, or does that basically undermine the main value.

Right now some guy who bought at $100 BTC is supposed to report the profit if he sells at $14k, but why would he since it’s all anonymous. At best it distorts the broader asset markets as people price in no need to pay taxes, at worst it’s a haven for the K Jung Un Putin’s and mafiosos if the world.

Why in the world wouldn’t regulatory bodies shut it down or demand auditing for tax reporting. Fuck they can look into Swiss bank accounts now, why would they let this slide?

Like this?

federal court judge ordered San Francisco-based Coinbase to comply with a summons that requires it to identify 14,355 accounts, which have accounted for nearly 9 million transactions.

The order, which covers transactions between 2013 and 2015, comes after a prolonged court fight that began when the IRS demanded that Coinbase provide detailed personal information for more than a million customer accounts.

The IRS subsequently limited its demand to ask only for accounts that conducted bitcoin transactions—either exchanging bitcoin for dollars, or sending or receiving coins from another bitcoin user—worth $20,000 or more.

**neckdeep** · 01-18-2018, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

I can just picture you two Luddites on the beach at Kitty Hawk laughing at the Wright Brothers.

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Another brilliant analogy. Whenever someone points out obvious flaws in your dream, you counter with a pithy and extremely flawed analogy of some sort. Whatever. I guess history just isn't your strong suit. No one is saying the tech isn't valid. We're saying that long term investing in today's cryptos is like filling up hangars full of early model biplanes in the expectation that they will appreciate indefinitely. Meanwhile, you should really be trying to figure out who is going to be the next Boeing or American Airlines.

Is any new technology a means to an end or an end in itself? The real world naturally tends to organize itself around providing services or the production of goods.

**Kinnikinnick** · 01-18-2018, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by ICantLogIn

Like this?

Yeah, although that’s just a us exchange. What about the guy who bought direct off his own server and now has a billion worth. When he sells he owes a couple hundred million.

No way to track that down

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**mcsquared** · 01-18-2018, 03:38 PM

Bitcoin being the new Napster is the most spot on analogy I have heard to date. Interesting technology, gonna shake up a few things in some large industries, a real "fuck the man" ideology that people want to get behind, but ultimately nothing sustainable.

**4matic** · 01-18-2018, 04:01 PM

Coinbase IRS is old news. Big news would be required accounting for every account like any other broker dealer.

**Boomer28** · 01-18-2018, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by 4matic

Coinbase IRS is old news. Big news would be required accounting for every account like any other broker dealer.

EXACTLY. All these coin wallets are going to have reporting requirements to the IRS just like bank accounts and brokerage accounts. It will chase the action off-shore just like real banks in the 70s-90s but like those there will be very few places that you'll be able to hid without major country-specific risk (basically a new FATCA). Just like Switzerland and Panama the US can wave a big stick to make countries comply and give people up.

**basinbeater** · 01-18-2018, 07:32 PM

Here is how I am starting to see and understand these things. The benefit of block chain decentralized networks is clear, and the example of IBM and Maersk teaming up to create a network that will allow for the accurate tracking of any container in the world is very interesting. I haven't read up on the details of how it will it work, but... To track containers on a decentralized network they will have to attach a token or coin to each container or item they want to track. To accurately track them, there must be a finite number of tokens or coins on the network (to prevent the container from ever appearing in two different places at the same time) . That will effectively be a new crypto currency if they build their own network. If they piggyback on an existing one (like you can do with ethereum or ripple) then you need to acquire coins or crypto currency to attach to what you want to track, whether it is usd transfers (western union looking into block chain) or Bananas. So either way you need a crypto currency, or token, or other LIMITED item on a network. How do you choose one? You go to the network that can provide you with the functionality you want. Want to program over the network and create a smart contract wlexecution service? Pick the network that works best.
Want ultimate security and anonymity? Use bitcoin

The conclusion is, whichever decentralized ledger can provide the best amount of functionality for a given population will find a market for their coins or tokens. So will something take over bitcoin? Eventually yes. Will something replace ethereum and ripple? Eventually yes. If you can study the emerging networks and understand their functionality and benefit or use case, you should be able to pick winners for the foreseeable future. And you should be able to understand when an emerging network/crypto will displace an existing for a given application.
Which one should you buy? Beats the shit outta me... But the above realization is what got me thinking about and studying more non bitcoin networks.

**ICantLogIn** · 01-19-2018, 01:52 PM

Great talk on how NEOs blockchain works.

**stalefish3169** · 01-19-2018, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by 4matic

How does a technology partnership make the Stellar tokens more valuable?

The tokens are the fee to use the network. As use increases, the value goes up to ensure liquidity. So having a behemoth like IBM to build with will likely be advantageous.

**stalefish3169** · 01-19-2018, 11:39 PM

US Government shuts down and Bitcoin shoots up $1000 in about an hour. Interesting.

**digitaldeath** · 01-20-2018, 11:51 AM

**reckless toboggan** · 01-20-2018, 01:21 PM

This shit is bananas.

**digitaldeath** · 01-20-2018, 01:29 PM

The banana index

**JimmyCarter** · 01-20-2018, 04:20 PM

Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring....

**365wp** · 01-21-2018, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by abraham

What's the predicted effect of quantum computing on the whole limited hashing thing? It seems like you could burn through the limited blocks fairly quickly unless some other form of artificial scarcity is put in.

I just Googled "post-quantum cryptography" and "post-quantum cryptocurrency." Looks like the biggest concern for BTC is the public keys being on the public blockchain. Fork BTC and replace the PoW algo with a different post-quantum algo. Open source server node that was backwards-compatible with the old BTC, and would replace output with new algo?

Personally, I can't get past the energy inefficiency aspect of the existing PoW algo. And any centralized implementation is similar to existing transaction systems, only with zero regulation and protection.