Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[Mustonen]

You're probably right on 20yrs being left, it's a bit cheeky to say it's dead.

Sorry, I was unclear. Checks have 20 years left of (declining) relevance.

ACH? We haven’t seen the system or technology that will displace it, yet.

[Mustonen]

One might be forgiven for thinking ACH evolution is a function of competition from crypto.

ACH evolution is a function of competition from P2P payment systems. Crypto has fuck all to do with it.

Predictably, proponents of crypto in the crypto thread overestimate its impact on the financial services landscape.

[stalefish3169]

Yup.

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[muted]

I only take advice from dogs on twitter, good call.

[Mustonen]

by "fuck all to do with it" you mean it being 2nd generation p2p finance, right?

1998 - PayPal founded, gen1 p2p reliant on existing infrastructure
2008 - trust-based banking model collapses
2009 - bitcoin founded, gen2 trustless p2p network

? Um. No.

I expected more intellectual honesty from you.

[Bromontana]

Huh

[Mustonen]

You can argue bitcoin will fail based on a number of different constraints. Or you can argue p2p trustless models are doomed for similar reasons. But to deny the line progression from paper to digital to crypto seems like selective hearing.

Look at square's app right now. p2p cash transfers, bitcoin & bank connections all next to each other. And the founder is both accumulating btc and hiring bitcoin-focused developers.

Here, I’m just arguing that ACH is not currently destined for imminent failure and crypto is not exactly driving the current innovation in P2P payments. Your example quite clearly shows that it’s just trying to tag along for the ride, as much any any other point you think you’re making. I’d say if anything it’s a net distraction from meaningful innovation, but whatevs.

Also crypto != bitcoin != blockchain. It’s exhausting to argue this stuff when you keep changing what you’re arguing about.

[Mustonen]

Well sure. I’m just talking about all bitcoin is crypto, but not all crypto is bitcoin kind of stuff. You know, Sesame Street level logic.

[stalefish3169]

I'm with you on the Sesame Street stuff.

4 out of 8 top coins are simply Bitcoin forks
https://crypto.bi/z/threads/4-out-of...in-forks.1186/

"50% of the top 8 coins are simply money printed out of thin air. In one or two more years we'll have a fourth or fifth version of Bitcoin dangling with several billion U$ market cap and absolutely no purpose"

LOL.

So you're admitting that crypto is money? Lol

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[stalefish3169]

Sure - If you have a large fortune and would like to turn it into a small fortune.

LOL

Whatever you say.

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[frorider]

TGRz pays me in poastcoin.

Am bullish.

[basinbeater]

some 0% of his posts add value. He makes no supported arguments, just sky will fall, just you wait.

Blockchain technology has many uses, and blockchain networks that end up being desirable to use because of certain benefits, (speed, security, anonymity, inventory tracking, building application on top of network, etc) will increase in value. Networks have value. Access to those networks and the ability to use them is granted through tokens, crypto currencies. If you want to use ethereum to track inventory, and you have 1000 items to track, you need at least 1000 ether to track your items. If others all see the benefit provided by the network, and want to use it to track their inventory as well, the value of ether just went up. Crypto currency is only as valuable as the perceived benefits provided by the network they reside in. Bitcoin network has certain perceived benefits. Secure, anonymous, self reinforcing incentives for the different players, and so people want to use the network. the token, bitcoin has value. If more people want to use the network, the value of bitcoin will rise.

[JimmyCarter]

A big part of the perception seen among the skeptics here is that benefits of bitcoin & crypto in general are most limited when talking about relatively wealthy residents of developed economies. The further you go out to the fringe, whether it be down the income scale in the developed world or to a much broader spectrum in remote or undeveloped areas, the more pronounced the likely impacts are. So it makes sense for middle/upper class people in the first world to look down on the resource usage & tail risk and say "ya waste of time." A bit of adverse selection inhibits the initial adoption.

"You know who will benefit most from our electricity and computer network intensive product?
1) People who live in countries where they can't keep the power on, and
2) people who can barely afford to put food on the table"

[JimmyCarter]

If you have a cell phone you have a bank. No need for ID, no age limits etc. Rural & poor largely qualify.

How do they get money from their hand into a bitcoin wallet?

[Mustonen]

If you follow the logic, he was noting crypto as not pressuring ACH evolution. Strange considering crypto is p2p and the next line of progression within p2p (wechat/venmo/paypal are old tech...). I noted bitcoin's place in the p2p space and involvement with a key p2p CEO and he rebuffs with "ZOMG they're not the same." Okay man, strawman away.

I’m not the one making the “bitcoin == P2P competitor who is pressuring established payment systems” straw man. That’s largely fabricated bullshit.

Easy to say, but also easy to point to the fact that P2P payment systems aren’t utilizing bitcoins in any meaningful volume and don’t want for anything other than ease of getting money from their bank account to the other person’s bank account in real time. That problem hasn’t really been solved yet, not simply. Here’s a clue: introducing an unrelated third party non-currency doesn’t solve shit. It’s about cost and friction and adoption.

Nobody actually gives a fuck about getting rid of trusted third parties. No matter how many bitcoin blogs you’re reading.

[Mustonen]

What money?

Labor * time = a debt to the laborer
settle with an online payment of an agreed to medium. Bictoin apps are free. Only need access to the app store & a network.
use mobile to transfer as needed

No money needed, just a phone. Preferably your own. But not strictly necessary.

The best medium is the one that is friction-less and stable. Bitcoin is not that. It’s not designed to be that. Why are you so invested in making it that?

[Mustonen]

What are your feelings on this as it relates to your argument that crypto doesn't have anything to do with pressuring ACH evolution? You can argue JPM Coin isn't a cryptocurrency - technically I suppose it's not - but to act as though bitcoin has nothing to do with the best bank in the world hastily launching a blockchain coin is a tricky position to maintain.







https://www.jpmorgan.com/global/news...-coin-payments

That’s adorable.

Your bitcoin bux are awesome, sweetie. You go! The best bank in the world agrees with you!

They’ll probably process ten thousand payments with it in the next month alone! Success! Lambos!

Stick to speculation, dood. Chances are pretty good that you’ll be able to find a greater fool. You know lots about that stuff. You don’t need it to be true to make moneyz.

[basinbeater]

K gravity, here is the 30 second search...
Maersk (biggest) and the next two largest container companies all track their containers using a shared Blockchain Network. You may not be able to buy their "coins" but they exist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.com...edger.amp.html

American Express Blockchain currency transactions. Something like this will displace ach.
https://www.americanexpress.com/us/f...cial-services/

Jp Morgan developing "digital dollars" using ethereum platform. Also likely a replacement for ach type ledgers.
https://media.consensys.net/j-p-morg...n-64f0fe3e55bc

Now here is a guide for building your own inventory tracking system using ethereum.
https://cerasis.com/blockchain-in-supply-chain/

A little company you may have heard of called Microsoft using Bitcoin network to develop a new login system.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.zdn...blockchain-id/


sent from Utah.

[Deebased]

Hi, I've got a #slow #inefficient #wasteful #arcane #blockchain clearing system based off 1979 Merkle Tree technology that has made a resurgence in ponzi circles due to #PriceGoesUp.
We would like to replace your ACH and systems with it Soon™.

LOL.

In 10 years, no one that was an exec today promoting blockchain will even want to mention that on a CV. Programmers and in-the-know CEOs today already know, or are finding out the hard way, Blockchain really sucks.

It solves nothing that can't be done much better with #legacy systems and the current #free databases.

#WeeeChat 800 Million money transcations per day -uses legacy db tech.
#Uber Millions of transactions per second - uses free database tech.

"The company I work for is rapidly moving all international fund transfers onto a Blockchain Network to speed settlement, reduce costs, and improve transaction security. "

No. That's a gullibility test to see who they don't want working there long term.

Hashgraph is pretty interesting, particularly in comparison to blockchain, it won't be replacing ACH though....ever.

[m32bb3]

Money? lol

[basinbeater]

Gravity, not sure what your argument is.

If it is all gobbledegook to you, perhaps you should learn a little more about it. Your arguments typically consist of, bitcoin is garbage, LOL. You say it's all garbage, and gobbledegook, yet the increasingly rapid pace of established businesses working to adopt the technology says otherwise.

Partnerships are real in business.

Why do you spend so much time trying to knock down something you think is worthless? Nothing better to do?

[stalefish3169]

Gravity, not sure what your argument is.

If it is all gobbledegook to you, perhaps you should learn a little more about it. Your arguments typically consist of, bitcoin is garbage, LOL. You say it's all garbage, and gobbledegook, yet the increasingly rapid pace of established businesses working to adopt the technology says otherwise.

Partnerships are real in business.

Why do you spend so much time trying to knock down something you think is worthless? Nothing better to do?

QFT

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[XXX-er]

The best medium is the one that is friction-less and stable. Bitcoin is not that. It’s not designed to be that. Why are you so invested in making it that?

this ^^ if somebody will give you real money or things for a bit coin then they aren't worthless but I would argue that bitcoin is right up there with a penny mining stock on the Vancover exchange ... not stable

I had this convo with a ski bud during car ride, he bought at 3500 tells me it went to 7000, I'm like dude why didnt you sell cover your initial investment and get in again when its low but he is not that much of a highroller, he seems to want to believe Bitcoin is something to hold for the long term cuz blah blah blah all the reasons already stated and it will be there when Fiat breaks down ... he totally drank the digital koolaid

[Mustonen]

Again, you seem like a smart guy, which leads me to believe that your counterpoints above are dishonest more than they are clueless.

[skaredshtles]

Stable enough for cars & houses it seems.

Attachment 285638

https://www.homebay.com/homes/homes-for-sale/bitcoin



Makes sense in a digital world.

So... in April that R8 was valued at ~$127,000... but today it's valued at ~$258,500.

It begs the question... what's an R8 really worth?