Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[shera]

You're welcome.

When you say selling above 62 is that on short term capital gains holds or long term? I'm trying to hold on to my long term BTC, ETH, and others as much as possible right now just in case we get anywhere near Willy Woo's 300k BTC bull run top prediction.

I agree, NEVER be at 0 with your btc holding because there's no telling - supercycle? I just don't know. Woo and Dan Held, and of course stocktoflow present a pretty picture don't they? They might not be wrong. Sadly though, my current theory is that the SEC (in cahoots with hedgies - talk about the dirtiest money IN THE FREAKING WORLD) will deliver an ETF at just the right moment to cut us all right down at the knees with shorts, ala tsla, gme, amc and all the other hundreds of companies that wall street has run into the ground and bankrupt for the benefit of the 1%, or fraction thereof. So many American companies that have provided goods, services and employment. Another death blow to the middle class. I am really mad about it, sorry. /soapbox

Anyway, take great care when an ETF is finally approved, I guess it will be for the benefit of wall street, not main street.

I will be paying short term capital gains tax for 2020 and 2021 (and I did in 2019) - taxed at regular income tax rate and I really wonder what is wrong with that? I made money and I should pay taxes. My only gripe is the onerous reporting requirement, hopefully some simplifications are coming? I guess I will have to shell out for additional crypto tax software, I am dreading figuring all that out. Glad we got a reprieve on that until May, still ski season though, so phooey.

[shera]

This is fundamentally a physics problem and there's no escaping it. The good news is any cryptocurrency based on proof of work is outdated because better much more efficient alternatives now exist.

Your "physics problem" has failed to decouple the source of the energy from the consumer, as bitcoin has done so elegantly.

But! You said something very interesting to me! If you are talking about ETH, I am watching (and holding) and trying to figure it all out. So many people smarter than me working on that ecosystem. Vitalik and the rest of the genius kiddie crew are running so fast, it is hard to keep up. I read a lot of scifi in my youth, but nothing has prepared me. So new, so fantastical!

Anyway, it would be great to hear your thoughts on alternatives.

I also hold link, btw. I don't understand it yet, but I respect it. Studying.

[MultiVerse]

Your "physics problem" has failed to decouple the source of the energy from the consumer, as bitcoin has done so elegantly.

BTC has a mining problem. HODLers should have some concern for their Bitcoin investment if it ever becomes an actual consumer phenomenon because the energy usage would be astronomical.

It's hard to imagine how BTC would hold up to public scrutiny at scale due to the orders of magnitude involved. Unless you can convince people BTC is more important than all the food, light, heat, entertainment, transportation, along with everything else combined then the whole idea is sitting on a house of cards.

Etherium eventually moving to Proof of Stake (PoS) along with others like Cardano/ADA that are already PoS is a step in the right direction. Plus, there are now coins based on DAGs (Directed Acyclic Graphs) that are several orders of magnitude more efficient. DAGs are fast and scalable. With DAGs there's no mining or fuel charges which means fees are much lower, opening up a world of possibilities.

There are now a wide variety of much better cryptocurrencies, without the insane power usage of Bitcoin.

[bennymac]

^ Blasphemy!!

[stalefish3169]

BTC has a mining problem. HODLers should have some concern for their Bitcoin investment if it ever becomes an actual consumer phenomenon because the energy usage would be astronomical.

It's hard to imagine how BTC would hold up to public scrutiny at scale due to the orders of magnitude involved. Unless you can convince people BTC is more important than all the food, light, heat, entertainment, transportation, along with everything else combined then the whole idea is sitting on a house of cards.

Etherium eventually moving to Proof of Stake (PoS) along with others like Cardano/ADA that are already PoS is a step in the right direction. Plus, there are now coins based on DAGs (Directed Acyclic Graphs) that are several orders of magnitude more efficient. DAGs are fast and scalable. With DAGs there's no mining or fuel charges which means fees are much lower, opening up a world of possibilities.

There are now a wide variety of much better cryptocurrencies, without the insane power usage of Bitcoin.

My dude, do you understand how much energy is stranded away from population centers and hence unusable for things other than say... mining BTC? Due to you know, physics, electricity isn't easily transported over more than a few hundred miles. I feel like we've been over this a lot.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Skidog]

My dude, do you understand how much energy is stranded away from population centers and hence unusable for things other than say... mining BTC? Due to you know, physics, electricity isn't easily transported over more than a few hundred miles. I feel like we've been over this a lot.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

And I feel like you keep simply dismissing it as nothing. Far from it, you won't find them talking about it on bitcoin blogs though. It's the "dirty" secret that's only whispered in close company.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

[MultiVerse]

My dude, do you understand how much energy is stranded away from population centers and hence unusable for things other than say... mining BTC? Due to you know, physics, electricity isn't easily transported over more than a few hundred miles. I feel like we've been over this a lot.

The 'stranded energy' argument is one of the weakest because long distance ultra-high voltage transmission lines to renewables are a currently ongoing and much better solution. Especially when so many power grids in places like China remain dirty.

It's telling how the BTC community has adopted the same talking points as the fossil fuel industry. The arguments are so bad that maybe it's intentional, like saying who gives a shit. But even if an individual doesn't care about Bitcoin pollution today, investors still need to take into account Bitcoin mining is on a road to self-destruction tomorrow.

[stalefish3169]

The 'stranded energy' argument is maybe the weakest of them all because transmission lines to renewables are a currently ongoing much better solution, especially when so many power grids in places like China remain dirty, and stranded fossil fuels is not such a bad thing.

It's telling how the BTC community has adopted the same talking points as the fossil fuel industry. The arguments are so bad that maybe it's intentional, like saying who gives a shit. But even if an individual doesn't care about Bitcoin pollution today, investors still need to take into account Bitcoin mining is on a road to self-destruction.

Fuck the fossil fuel industry. My thesis is that we're stuck on oil because it's the most profitable. Bitcoin can change that and make renewables way more profitable. When renewables are more profitable that fossil fuels, that's when fossil fuels will finally go away. Bitcoin can make this happen much faster. You might not like it, but you should accept it.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[MultiVerse]

Fuck the fossil fuel industry. My thesis is that we're stuck on oil because it's the most profitable. Bitcoin can change that and make renewables way more profitable. When renewables are more profitable that fossil fuels, that's when fossil fuels will finally go away. Bitcoin can make this happen much faster. You might not like it, but you should accept it.

That's tortured logic. If Bitcoin mining is using stranded renewable energy then it's holding back investment for long distance ultra-high voltage transmission lines causing more demand for fossil energy. If Bitcoin mining is consuming non-stranded renewables then it's displacing renewable energy and increasing the use of dirty power. Either way Bitcoin mining rewards waste and pollution by monetizing it.

[Mustonen]

And I feel like you keep simply dismissing it as nothing. Far from it, you won't find them talking about it on bitcoin blogs though. It's the "dirty" secret that's only whispered in close company.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

The willingness of BTC proponents (including “analysts”) to pull the wool over their own eyes is the most alarming aspect of the whole thing, and should be a powerful disincentive for anybody to invest anything more than play money in it.

Being optimistic is one thing; this is something else entirely. It’s weird.

[MakersTeleMark]

https://youtu.be/K60c9sdTzzs?t=950

BTW, BTC just broke out to a new ATH and those numbers that SheRa was talking about a week ago are long gone.

[JimmyCarter]

https://youtu.be/K60c9sdTzzs?t=950

BTW, BTC just broke out to a new ATH and those numbers that SheRa was talking about a week ago are long gone.

Lets see if she sold above 62 like she said she would

[MakersTeleMark]

Lets see if she sold above 62 like she said she would

I'm not taking that bet.

[shera]

I have a little system, sell orders are laddered up to 70k. If we get close to that, I'll ladder on up. I will keep selling to infinity.

Likewise, I have buy orders currently between 40-50k.

It's not rocket science, just my method for keeping the emotions out if it. I did get a sell order triggered this morning, first one in 24 days. I also sold a little eth this morning, to pay the bills.

[shera]

Got more fills at 63385 and 2285 (ETH)

[Meathelmet]

That's tortured logic....Either way Bitcoin mining rewards waste and pollution by monetizing it.

Multiverse, I applaud your perseverance and composure, be it in this or other threads.
Regardless the underlying psychopathologies of certain individuals, you continue providing clear thinking, facts and reasoning that seems to be scarce these days.

Carry on.


And not denying here: BTC is a fascinating vessel of speculation and the underlying mechanisms are an interesting phenomena as well.
On so many different levels.

[stalefish3169]

Multiverse, I applaud your perseverance and composure, be it in this or other threads.
Regardless the underlying psychopathologies of certain individuals, you continue providing clear thinking, facts and reasoning that seems to be scarce these days.

Carry on.


And not denying here: BTC is a fascinating vessel of speculation and the underlying mechanisms are an interesting phenomena as well.
On so many different levels.

Just because certain individuals refuse to get over their intellectual laziness and myopic opinions doesn't mean that us bulls are psychopaths.

MV seems like he means well, but a good deal of his opinions are just that. I don't think facts support all of his reasoning... especially wrt energy.

https://medium.com/@nic__carter/noah...g-2052226310cb



Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[Meathelmet]

Just because certain individuals refuse to get over their intellectual laziness and myopic opinions doesn't mean that us bulls are psychopaths.

Stale, I am not directly insinuating that you fall under the term "all bulls are psychopaths". There are not "you", "me" or "us", per se.
There a speculators, sycophants, misguided, ill guided, curious, evangelists, anarchists etc.

But you have a hard time painting MV for "intellectual laziness and myopic opinions", on the contrary. While trying to do so it is you who come across either as misinformed, intellectually stunted...or just acting in mauvaise foi.

[AKPogue]

Stale, I am not directly insinuating that you fall under the term "all bulls are psychopaths". There are not "you", "me" or "us", per se.
There a speculators, sycophants, misguided, ill guided, curious, evangelists, anarchists etc.

But you have a hard time painting MV for "intellectual laziness and myopic opinions", on the contrary. While trying to do so it is you who come across either as misinformed, intellectually stunted...or just acting in mauvaise foi.

LOL, I know you are but what am I!

[MultiVerse]

MV seems like he means well, but a good deal of his opinions are just that. I don't think facts support all of his reasoning... especially wrt energy.

https://medium.com/@nic__carter/noah...g-2052226310cb

It would be really cool if bitcoin could break the Carnot cycle, but it can't. There is literally no way to do brute force PoW computation at scale without a massive drain on resources. Repeating the same faulty arguments doesn't change that reality.


Reality:

The entire U.S. uses about 4,000 billion kilowatt hours (kWh) or 4,000 terawatt hours (TWh) of electricity a year. U.S. consumers, for example, make about $3 trillion worth of cash transactions annually.

The world's entire electricity consumption is about 25,000 TWh. Visa, as another example, handles about $11 trillion worth of digital payments on 190 billion transactions annually worldwide.

The average energy consumption for a single Bitcoin transaction in 2020 was 741 kilowatt hours (kWh). So the amount of energy it would take for BTC to match Visa's 190 billion transactions is 140,790,000,000,000 kWh or 140,790 TWh.

140,790 TWh > 25,000 TWh > 4,000 TWh.

It would take about 35 times more than the entire amount of electricity the U.S. produces for BTC to match Visa's transactions. It would take about 5-6 times more electricity than the entire world produces for the Bitcoin network to match Visa.

[stalefish3169]

It would be really cool if bitcoin could break the Carnot cycle, but it can't. There is literally no way to do brute force PoW computation at scale without a massive drain on resources. Repeating the same faulty arguments doesn't change that reality.


Reality:

The entire U.S. uses about 4,000 billion kilowatt hours (kWh) or 4,000 terawatt hours (TWh) of electricity a year. U.S. consumers, for example, make about $3 trillion worth of cash transactions annually.

The world's entire electricity consumption is about 25,000 TWh. Visa, as another example, handles about $11 trillion worth of digital payments on 190 billion transactions annually worldwide.

The average energy consumption for a single Bitcoin transaction in 2020 was 741 kilowatt hours (kWh). So the amount of energy it would take for BTC to match Visa's 190 billion transactions is 140,790,000,000,000 kWh or 140,790 TWh.

140,790 TWh > 25,000 TWh > 4,000 TWh.

It would take about 35 times more than the entire amount of electricity the U.S. produces for BTC to match Visa's transactions. It would take about 5-6 times more electricity than the entire world produces for the Bitcoin network to match Visa.

Not everything is going to be on chain. There will be multiple second layer solutions. There is no need to pay for coffee with BTC. Almost anyone who has done any basic amount of research knows this.

LOL, I know you are but what am I!

Haha, right? People come into this thread for no other reason than to hate on crypto holders and gloat about the the taxes we'll have to pay, but we're the bad faith actors.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[bennymac]

There’s is a ton of valid criticism in here that has nothing to do with 1) hating crypto 2) talking about taxes.

And there is a lot of arguing in bad faith from all sides.

[AKPogue]

There’s is a ton of valid criticism in here that has nothing to do with 1) haying crypto 2) talking about taxes.

And there is a lot of arguing in bad faith from all sides.

You can tell yourself this but it's been pretty one sided. On the crypto side we've said crypto is a risk, there's some inherent pluses and minuses, and not sure what exactly is going to happen.

The people here against crypto is that it's going to zero, it's used for evil purposes, and it's going to consume all the world's energy.

This is a very simplistic way of putting it and reason I'm not putting in anymore effort because there's no way I'm going to change minds here.

[MultiVerse]

@stalefish3169: Bitcoin's structural flaws by design have not been solved by creating layers on top of the bitcoin blockchain. You still have the proof-of-work energy black hole underneath your "Tier 2."


@bennymac: Bitcoin runs mostly on fossil fuels and gives second life to old fossil units. It's just dumb bad faith greenwashing wish fulfillment bullshittery coming from many in the bitcoin community. Even if a person is pro bitcoin, if they were acting in good faith they'd have to admit this is not an "all sides" argument, just bad branding for all of crypto.


@AKPogue: Your framing is at best one sided and cherry picked. The bitcoin motte-and-bailey

Attachment 371482

[AKPogue]

@stalefish3169: Bitcoin's structural flaws by design have not been solved by creating layers on top of the bitcoin blockchain. You still have the proof-of-work energy black hole underneath your "Tier 2."


@bennymac: Bitcoin runs mostly on fossil fuels and gives second life to old fossil units. It's just dumb bad faith greenwashing wish fulfillment bullshittery coming from many in the bitcoin community. Even if a person is pro bitcoin, if they were acting in good faith they'd have to admit this is not an "all sides" argument, just bad branding for all of crypto.


@ AKPogue: You're framing is at best one sided and cherry picked. The bitcoin motte-and-bailey

Attachment 371482

Is that all you do is I know you are but what am I?