Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[MultiVerse]

Cheer up dudes. ETH just hit 3k!

The world has been moving away from Bitcoin in favor of Ethereum for some time. This is just the beginning. Markets haven't fully realized it yet.

[MakersTeleMark]

The world has been moving away from Bitcoin in favor of Ethereum for some time. This is just the beginning. Markets haven't fully realized it yet.

This couldn't be farther from the truth. They are 2 very different chains with very different use cases. And the markets are very informed. ETH has outperformed BTC for over a year.

[MakersTeleMark]

Here is my non-advice...I own ETHE.. The Grayscale Ethereum Trust. Grayscale also has a bitcoin trust...which I don't own.. I buy and sell ETHE in my IRA which is with Vanguard... So no capital gains tax issues..I want to be able to get in and out faster and cheaper than storing and buying and selling coins through a coin exchange...but.. I can only buy or sell during stock exchange hours..Not the 24/7 trade window of the coin exchanges..

https://itrustcapital.com/ is your answer

[MakersTeleMark]

https://twitter.com/krugermacro/stat...432483841?s=19

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Here is a basic DYOR resource:

[MultiVerse]

This couldn't be farther from the truth. They are 2 very different chains with very different use cases. And the markets are very informed. ETH has outperformed BTC for over a year.

Bitcoin security requires paying rewards to miners in two ways: 1) block subsidies 2) transaction fees.

Due to the hard cap the block subsidy decreases to zero over time. That means fees have to increase to maintain security. Higher fees lower transaction demand and fewer transactions decreases the hash rate, which decreases security. Bitcoin will no longer be thought of as a store of value if transactions fall because of high fees.

Unlike Ethereum, Bitcoin is memecoin setting aflame $50 million in real resources everyday.

[MakersTeleMark]

Bitcoin security requires paying rewards to miners in two ways: 1) block subsidies 2) transaction fees.

Due to the hard cap the block subsidy decreases to zero over time. That means fees have to increase to maintain security. Higher fees lower transaction demand and fewer transactions decreases the hash rate, which decreases security. Bitcoin will no longer be thought of as a store of value if transactions fall because of high fees.

Ethereum does not have this problem.

You are forgetting one monster thing that happens with scarcity. PRICE.

[shera]

"fewer transactions decreases the hash rate which decreases security"

That's not how I understand the code to work. Maybe you can expand on that statement. I'm not trying to get into a btc vs eth argument, just wondering what you are trying to say?

Interestingly, around the year 2140, the bitcoin block rewards will end altogether and the pow function will rely entirely on transaction fees.

[shera]

You are forgetting one monster thing that happens with scarcity. PRICE.

But the plot thickens! EIP 1559 will (supposedly) cause eth to become a deflationary asset through token burns. We live in interesting times.

[MultiVerse]

You are forgetting one monster thing that happens with scarcity. PRICE.

Scarcity only matters if accompanied by security. There's no reason why you couldn't have a fixed-supply token based on Ethereum along with the added advantage of lower fees and faster blocks.

[MakersTeleMark]

But the plot thickens! EIP 1559 will (supposedly) cause eth to become a deflationary asset through token burns. We live in interesting times.

Most alt coins are deflationary already. It's about time ETH got on the boat, however slowly. Same goes for rollups and sharding.

[MultiVerse]

"fewer transactions decreases the hash rate which decreases security"

That's not how I understand the code to work. Maybe you can expand on that statement. I'm not trying to get into a btc vs eth argument, just wondering what you are trying to say?

Interestingly, around the year 2140, the bitcoin block rewards will end altogether and the pow function will rely entirely on transaction fees.

Induction:

High fees = fewer transactions + no block subsidy = low hash rate = low security.

High transactions = lower fees + no block subsidy = low hash rate = low security.

[shera]

Most alt coins are deflationary already. It's about time ETH got on the boat, however slowly. Same goes for rollups and sharding.

Incoming!

Supposedly November, but this is code so I always expect it to be late, hahaha.

Have you seen how Chainlink never puts out dates for anything, never says anything about anything? They sell every week and don't even consider the price, they have an enormous job page and hackathons and bounties. Just next level, I guess.

Oh and they are even redefining proof of stake. egad

[stalefish3169]

Bitcoin is memecoin setting aflame $50 million in real resources everyday.

Dude, just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.



Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[up an down]

https://itrustcapital.com/ is your answer

1% fee every time I want to trade is not an answer for me.

[MultiVerse]

Dude, just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

The marginal cost of mining a BTC coin scales with the price. If the BTC price is $50K then the net investment in mining gear and electricity approaches $50K/coin. You get a cost structure that looks something like coins mined per minute * price. At about 0.65 coins per minute 0.65 * 1440 * 50,000 = $46,800,000 cost per day or $17 billion annually of additional resources/capital to run the network.

If the BTC price goes to $100K the new additional capital and electricity network requirement is $34 billion. At $1 million BTC the requirement is $342 billion of additional resources per year to scale the network.


This is why having a fixed supply creates a potential security problem because block rewards and fees have to be high enough to keep the network up, while at the same time high fees discourage transactions.

[Bunion 2020]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/care...peq?li=BBnbfcL

I did some business development work for a tech company on a contract basis. The CEO stated that I would be paid in crypto when I started the work in the spring of 2020. He added a clause to the contract stating, “The company may elect to pay in USD.”

I struck out that part of the contract because if I was going to risk getting paid in crypto, and the price all of a sudden appreciated, I didn’t want the company to revert to paying me in USD.

In August 2020, I received payment for the contract work in cryptocurrency. Since then, the prices of cryptocurrency have skyrocketed. As of this moment, the crypto that I received payment in has gone up 700%.

Today, I received an email from the CEO stating something along the lines of, “Since you did not generate any revenue for the company and are not currently doing any follow up work, please send back all of the crypto received in August 2020. You can invoice the company for the hours worked in USD.” So basically, stating that I can invoice in USD at seven times less than what the crypto is worth today!

.

[pureantigravity]

ETH 2.0 promises 100,000 transactions per second as per decrypt.*

Remember the attacks of the past? Due to the throughput of 12 to 15 tx/second, it was possible for white hat hackers to battle the attackers in real time to save some of the funds that were being skirted away in attacks. See "We spoke to the vigilante hackers who stole $85 million in ether to save it".

With ETH 2.0, the dynamics of network security have changed. Proof of stake (POS) needs more than 1/3 to attack (BTC is 51%) and there are checks and balances that also help thwart breaches with consensus (I haven't studied them so I can't comment).

However, one thing hasn't changed: A bug in a contract is still a bug in a contract.

What that means is that white hat rescues won't be _as_ feasible anymore. Any bugs like the ones found prior would be exploitable much faster, at a speed that would render the contract funds fully drained BEFORE counter-actions can be even started. That's my guess. I could be wrong but I doubt any hackers will be fast enough to assemble a counter and protect assets in a contract when 100K throughput arrives.

This is good for contract auditors and I suspect they will be getting a pay raise to make sure everyone's DeFi accounts are looked over much more thoroughly in the future.

Also, in the Decrypt article linked above, Lior Yaffe (co-founder of Jelurida) is mentioned. Nxt was the first POS token and Ardor is a very mature system. If anyone wants to know about POS, anything written by Lior is authoritative. He has many older articles that are easy to understand in his blogs. He and his sidekick Tomislav Gountchev are both very smart and worthy of ball licking**.


edit:
* According to Vitalik, "ETH2 scaling will start with 2-3k TPS with eth1 as data layer." I think this is much more realistic.

** I have no financial interest in Ardor. The Bridge Game app being developed looks interesting. I'm watching the project. I'm not suggesting in any way to buy their token.

[shera]

Thanks for all that info, I will look at it.

So I mis-stated the date of the up coming Eth fork, it is July: https://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-im...ndon-hard-fork

I was thinking of the upcoming upgrade to bitcoin with taproot/schnorr which is in November: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-tap...eline-november

[pureantigravity]

Win win! Good for the FBI and good for Monero!
https://modernconsensus.com/regulati...neros-privacy/

[schindlerpiste]

I have not read thru the previous 160 pages, and I get how attractive Bitcoin is to some as a speculative investment, but practically how good is bitcoin for retail spending? It’s not like most people want or can’t afford Tesla or lease transportation from NetJets. Seriously, is or when will it ever become a viable method of payment, or is that not it’s purpose? IOW when can I use Bitcoin to by a Ford?
If this has already been covered, just ignore my query

[Jax]

I've got no skin in this game but this "proof of space and time" is interesting:

"..Bitcoin mining has become increasingly difficult for at-home miners due to the expansion of publicly-traded mining companies like Riot Blockchain and Marathon Digital Holdings. These companies use ASIC miners that have greater computing power than the average at-home miner could afford. This has made it so the rewards for mining bitcoin at home no longer make financial sense for many miners, especially when energy costs are considered.

With Chia, that could change. At-home users will have the capability to compete to earn XCH by "seeding" their SSDs or hard drives and, at least for now, the lack of competition should allow for a more profitable experience.

Chia is also a very accessible cryptocurrency. Gene Hoffman, the CEO and President of Chia Network, says it was designed that way on purpose."It is super simple. Just download the Mac or Windows version and double click," Hoffman told CoinDesk. "I'm pretty sure this will be the easiest cryptocurrency to validate for normal people ever...."

https://markets.businessinsider.com/...1-4-1030373374

[jackstraw]

For noobs like me, this guy explains the basics in simple terms. I'm sure some of you guys will tear him apart, but that's tgr, eh!?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQQ...xlKre3SEqEWrLA

[jm2e]

I’m no crypto guy. And I’m certainly no financial expert by any means. But if I’m going to use “money” to pay for (and even more so, to bill for) goods and services, that “money” needs to be very very stable.
People can say what they want about the US Dollar, but it’s mother fucking stable. I list something on EBay for $100 and ignore it for a month, when it finally sells, I know I’m getting $100 that’s worth $100 and I know all sorts of shit that I can buy with that $100.
Until a crypto gets there, it’s nothing more than a very high risk investment.
Convince me otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[jackstraw]

I’m no crypto guy. And I’m certainly no financial expert by any means. But if I’m going to use “money” to pay for (and even more so, to bill for) goods and services, that “money” needs to be very very stable.
People can say what they want about the US Dollar, but it’s mother fucking stable. I list something on EBay for $100 and ignore it for a month, when it finally sells, I know I’m getting $100 that’s worth $100 and I know all sorts of shit that I can buy with that $100.
Until a crypto gets there, it’s nothing more than a very high risk investment.
Convince me otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Hey man, a buck was worth .85 Euro last month and it's only worth .83 now.

[abraham]

None of this shit is looking at money or currency differently. It’s just reinventing the wheel so a bunch of different people can make money on the hustle. NFTs offer nothing the art world didn’t have before. Not even the obvious sell side corruption of dealers bidding up works they have the rights to

So much if this shit is first world dudes extrapolating onto the “3rd world” their fears, not the actual 3rd world doing shit.

NFTs are new and novel because they are the same old art shit, on the internet.

I’m no crypto guy. And I’m certainly no financial expert by any means. But if I’m going to use “money” to pay for (and even more so, to bill for) goods and services, that “money” needs to be very very stable.
People can say what they want about the US Dollar, but it’s mother fucking stable. I list something on EBay for $100 and ignore it for a month, when it finally sells, I know I’m getting $100 that’s worth $100 and I know all sorts of shit that I can buy with that $100.
Until a crypto gets there, it’s nothing more than a very high risk investment.
Convince me otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Wrong thread, I think you want the petrodollar thread.