Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

**garyfromterrace** · 06-21-2022, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

All this exchange hypothecation and degenerate trading firm leverage is making a great case for BTC's long-term value proposition. It's the ultimate digital bearer instrument. No trust required.

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Fuck, that sounds awesome. Where can I buy some. I don't even have to trust.
Seriously....? WTF does your statement even fucking mean?

**schuss** · 06-22-2022, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by stalefish3169

All this exchange hypothecation and degenerate trading firm leverage is making a great case for BTC's long-term value proposition. It's the ultimate digital bearer instrument. No trust required.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

You mean all the stuff we've worked years to stamp out due to fraud and crime through KYC and other regs?

**Cono Este** · 06-22-2022, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by shera

Well the shorts started it, and I despise shorts. So I call the squeeze fighting fire with fire.

People HAVE to short sometimes.

If you are a liquidity provider buying calls from the public that’s how you hedge, it’s not a choice, you are not there to gamble. Professionals hedge, they don’t take merely long or short position.

Most short interest is just a hedge.

The david vs Goliath game the media makes of it is because that story sells, and they are probably ignorant anyway.

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**Cono Este** · 06-22-2022, 06:09 AM

This recent btc sell off, and I’m guessing, has a lot to do with liquidity providers who are short collars and risk reversals. They are synthetically long btc and forced to short it more as it goes down to remain delta neutral.

They don’t give a shit if it goes up or down. They just don’t want it to move large % at a time.

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**shera** · 06-22-2022, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Cono Este

People HAVE to short sometimes.

If you are a liquidity provider buying calls from the public that’s how you hedge, it’s not a choice, you are not there to gamble. Professionals hedge, they don’t take merely long or short position.

Most short interest is just a hedge.

The david vs Goliath game the media makes of it is because that story sells, and they are probably ignorant anyway.

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Yes of course you're right. I was even thinking about that after I typed it. But hedging is not the same as toysrus, overstock, tesla, gme, right off the top of my head and who knows how many other businesses driven to bankruptcy. I read somewhere that is part of the success of amazon - he was a hedge fund guy before? Anyway, he used these slimy tactics to drive his competitors/brick and morter out of business. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

I still rely on amazon...so I guess my character is not much better.

**dunfree** · 06-22-2022, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Cono Este

People HAVE to short sometimes.

If you are a liquidity provider buying calls from the public that’s how you hedge, it’s not a choice, you are not there to gamble. Professionals hedge, they don’t take merely long or short position.

Most short interest is just a hedge.

The david vs Goliath game the media makes of it is because that story sells, and they are probably ignorant anyway.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

uh, it’s not the media making that narrative fool, it’s the people pushing the short squeeze. WSB, amc apes, they’ve all pushed that narrative to feed money into the wood chipper in a quixotic quest to fight “the man”. Heck half of this thread is smooth brain rants against the man.

**4matic** · 06-22-2022, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by shera

he was a hedge fund guy before? Anyway, he used these slimy tactics to drive his competitors/brick and morter out of business. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Walmart, Costco and Home Depot did the same thing. Don’t blame them. Consumers have choices.

**DBdude** · 06-22-2022, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Cono Este

This recent btc sell off, and I’m guessing, has a lot to do with liquidity providers who are short collars and risk reversals. They are synthetically long btc and forced to short it more as it goes down to remain delta neutral.

They don’t give a shit if it goes up or down. They just don’t want it to move large % at a time.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

wall street investors don't hold and I believe a number I read was that 2020 vs 2021, wall street holdings increased 10x in bitcoin. wall street got out

**Mustonen** · 06-22-2022, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by 4matic

Walmart, Costco and Home Depot did the same thing. Don’t blame them. Consumers have choices.

Well, what? I mean, they do, but let’s not act like “consumer choice” is a good, moral, or sustainable way to steer a society. Corporate greed veiled by “consumer choice” is how we have melting icecaps and the prospect of skiing becoming a relic of history books.

**The Suit** · 06-22-2022, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by shera

Yes of course you're right. I was even thinking about that after I typed it. But hedging is not the same as toysrus, overstock, tesla, gme, right off the top of my head and who knows how many other businesses driven to bankruptcy. I read somewhere that is part of the success of amazon - he was a hedge fund guy before? Anyway, he used these slimy tactics to drive his competitors/brick and morter out of business. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

I still rely on amazon...so I guess my character is not much better.

You can't drive a company to bankruptcy by shorting their stock. Companies go bankrupt when they run out of cash. It's a good rule of thumb to assume that "liquidity crisis" is a weaselly way of saying "we're almost out of cash." Sometimes those companies really do have enough illiquid assets on their balance sheet to cover their obligations, but illiquid assets are really easy to overvalue.

Of the companies that you mention, Toys R' Us was a victim of the shift from bricks-and-mortar to online retail, Overstock is healthy, although its CEO hates shorts, Tesla is healthy, although its CEO hates shorts. GameStop was dying because of the shift from bricks-and-mortar to online when it was basically saved by the wallstreetbets Reddit short squeeze. Somehow it managed to recapitalize enough to keep going and now it's trying to become an NFT play.

None of those fit the "short sellers drove them into bankruptcy" narrative.

Short sellers do slimy shit for sure, but they can't take out a business that's fundamentally sound.

**4matic** · 06-22-2022, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

Well, what? I mean, they do, but let’s not act like “consumer choice” is a good, moral, or sustainable way to steer a society. Corporate greed veiled by “consumer choice” is how we have melting icecaps and the prospect of skiing becoming a relic of history books.

Conflation. Consumers chose convenience. I made no implication otherwise.

**4matic** · 06-22-2022, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by The Suit

Short sellers do slimy shit for sure, but they can't take out a business that's fundamentally sound.

Long buyers are no different. Saylor for example. Musk for another. Sell hopes and dreams.

**bennymac** · 06-22-2022, 10:11 AM

We still haven’t sorted out how the Celsius situation is being driven by bad actors and bad behavior but the GME play was just “sticking it to the man” wholesome fun

**Terryludwig** · 06-22-2022, 10:16 AM

I know bitcoin's been around for a long time, but am I the only one who doesn't know how to buy it?

**frorider** · 06-22-2022, 10:24 AM

I know a guy. PM sent

**Dantheman** · 06-22-2022, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by frorider

I know a guy. PM sent

**mcphee** · 06-22-2022, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by dunfree

uh, it’s not the media making that narrative fool, it’s the people pushing the short squeeze. WSB, amc apes, they’ve all pushed that narrative to feed money into the wood chipper in a quixotic quest to fight “the man”. Heck half of this thread is smooth brain rants against the man.

“If I’m the man then you’re the man and he’s the man as well so you can point that fucking finger up your ass.”

**My Pet Powder Goat** · 06-22-2022, 10:33 AM

don't be a Tool!

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**4matic** · 06-22-2022, 10:41 AM

The new wave. Who’s the man?

**stalefish3169** · 06-22-2022, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by up an down

So crazy it's beyond parody.

It's really not crazy if you're familiar with what's happening in the global bond market right now. Sooner or later the music is going to stop and there are only so many chairs.

**stalefish3169** · 06-22-2022, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by garyfromterrace

Fuck, that sounds awesome. Where can I buy some. I don't even have to trust.
Seriously....? WTF does your statement even fucking mean?

My statement means a lot of things. But the entire premise of BTC is that decentralized consensus is reached very reliably without having to trust intermediaries. If you hold BTC, its integrity is instantly verifiable, unlike gold. You also don't have to trust that unelected central bankers won't debase your money by suddenly adding 20% more to the supply.

**bennymac** · 06-22-2022, 11:30 AM

What about Luna though? How much trust do we need there

**Cono Este** · 06-22-2022, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by 4matic

Long buyers are no different. Saylor for example. Musk for another. Sell hopes and dreams.

Thank you. Short selling is an essential market function. Any liquidity adds stability.

I know I’m a broken record, but 90% of short interest is a hedge against a long position.

I’ve been short 100,000’s of shares and prayed a stock went up. Because the public sold me even more calls. Or Vice verse, the public bought puts and I shorted to cover that risk.

In todays multiply listed market, there is no way to trully know what a person has on in a position. Don’t waste your time thinking about it.

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**stalefish3169** · 06-22-2022, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by bennymac

What about Luna though? How much trust do we need there

Luna is (was?) very fundamentally different from Bitcoin. But keep being smarmy. You've really carved out a nice niche of superiority for yourself. Basically your entire purpose in this thread is to troll me and add nothing of value. It's a tired act dude.

**DBdude** · 06-22-2022, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by The Suit

You can't drive a company to bankruptcy by shorting their stock. Companies go bankrupt when they run out of cash. It's a good rule of thumb to assume that "liquidity crisis" is a weaselly way of saying "we're almost out of cash." Sometimes those companies really do have enough illiquid assets on their balance sheet to cover their obligations, but illiquid assets are really easy to overvalue.

Of the companies that you mention, Toys R' Us was a victim of the shift from bricks-and-mortar to online retail, Overstock is healthy, although its CEO hates shorts, Tesla is healthy, although its CEO hates shorts. GameStop was dying because of the shift from bricks-and-mortar to online when it was basically saved by the wallstreetbets Reddit short squeeze. Somehow it managed to recapitalize enough to keep going and now it's trying to become an NFT play.

None of those fit the "short sellers drove them into bankruptcy" narrative.

Short sellers do slimy shit for sure, but they can't take out a business that's fundamentally sound.

i'm not writing this for you suit because I know you know this

you have to have shorts - otherwise there wouldn't be another side of the transaction when you go long

you can't have derivatives without shorts and longs