Bitcoin....who's gotten into it?

[skaredshtles]

Just giving you shit. You sure as hell dish it out.

[shera]

Some people haven't read Hayes before, he is his own voice and no one else's. Anyway, here's some context for that phraseology, and the link to the entire article about the 3 arrows capitol saga.

This current crypto nuclear bear market marks my third brush with generalised market carnage. And while they can sometimes feel like reruns, every episode yields new lessons to be learned. Everyone is always going to have their own view of what those lessons are — but if it’s the mainstream financial media you’re listening to, I can tell you with confidence that you’re being fed the wrong takeaways. They, in the service of the devil that is TradFi, will use any and every opportunity to poke fun at our economic / social experiment — gleefully proclaiming, “we warned you crypto was worthless!” In the holy name of our Lord Satoshi, I shall attempt to correct the invective that seeps forth from these malicious harpies. In this piece, I’ll be using the Three Arrows Capital (3AC) saga as a lens through which we can better understand the true insights that should be gleaned from the current bear market.

https://entrepreneurshandbook.co/num...e-511f334d8fae

I encourage you to read it.

[Cono Este]

In the trading world, eventually everything gets the margin crushed out of it as the product gets regulated and disseminated to the masses and the market makers cannot just move shit where the want and have to compete with others.

When I make my small trades on Coinbase I am shocked at how I don’t see a two sided mkt, they must be absolutely ripping everyone off on every trade. And if their are derivatives, it’s probably 10x worse.

Still not enough for some, so they borrow against customer assets. And make their own bets.

And to top it off, while making unhedged bets with customer assets and sometimes these firms really don’t have the experience on their trading desks to know how to even safely do it.

I love how everyone with two nickels to rub together think they are an expert but in actuality don’t know what the fuck they are doing. See John Corzine.


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[The Suit]

This quote from the article Shera posted reeks of cult worship



"They, in the service of the devil that is TradFi, will use any and every opportunity to poke fun at our economic / social experiment — gleefully proclaiming, “we warned you crypto was worthless!” In the holy name of our Lord Satoshi, I shall attempt to correct the invective that seeps forth from these malicious harpies."

I read the whole article and it's pretty clear he wrote that with tongue in cheek. I think he has too much faith in algorithms, but he's not a cultist.

[shera]

I don't think he has faith in anything at all, except himself. And his missives have to be taken with a hefty grain of salt, "talking his book" is too simplistic an explanation but in the right direction.

[MultiVerse]

It was clear after reading his past missives on economics that he has no idea what he's talking about. And I don't mean in the way economists disagree with one another on any given day. I mean there were lots of categorical and definitional errors made in the same way a freshman college student taking intro-to-macro might copy-and-paste from a hodge·podge of current event articles the night before, without knowing what any of it means, in order to submit a paper due the follow morning.

[up an down]

It was clear after reading his past missives on economics that he has no idea what he's talking about. And I don't mean in the way economists disagree with one another on any given day. I mean there were lots of categorical and definitional errors made in the same way a freshman college student taking intro-to-macro might copy-and-paste from a hodge·podge of current event articles the night before, without knowing what any of it means, in order to submit a paper due the follow morning.

In other words, a typical crypto shill.

[stalefish3169]

What's funny to me is that you have stalefish and co. calling traditional finance folks "corrupt" and "terrible" (which I wouldn't necessarily disagree with to some extent) while pretending crypto isn't just a different set of greedy, corrupt people trying to make money by risking other people's money. The venn diagram is a pretty much a circle here.

You're thinking about it the wrong way. Bitcoin is a protocol similar to TCP/IP. Everyone has the same amount of access and plays by the same rules. These rules and associated transactions are visible to all and nobody can unilaterally change them. The Fed on the other hand is composed of a very small group of unelected and unaccountable people with a cheat code that allows them to print infinite money at will which they mostly give to their already rich friends.

Now do bad things happen with BTC? Yes sometimes. But that just means that BTC is an effective payment mechanism. Bad things happen on the internet all the time, but you don't say TCP/IP is bad. We say that individual actors and their scams are bad.

"Crypto" on the other hand, which by that I mean everything else besides BTC, is not really the same as BTC because nothing is even close to as decentralized. Are there bad actors? Yes, of course there are, similar to tradfi.

Interestingly, it can be argued that all of the recent crypto carnage is due to the visibility of transactions. In other words, rich savvy market participants could tell just how much money they needed to blow up LUNA, 3AC, etc. In the short term, this did a lot of damage and a lot of retail investors got rekt. In the long term, I think this will lead to less degenerate gambling and more resistant defi. But this is likely to take years to decades, which is way longer than most people in this thread have the ability to plan for. Case in point, the same people who said BTC was dead in January 2018 are doing victory laps now while BTC just "crashed" to ~5x in price above the 2018 lows.

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[CarlMega]

But that just means that BTC is an effective payment mechanism.

By what standard and measurement? Coverage, adoption and usage? Resource expense per trans? Number of trans per sec? Potential to scale?

I think your analogy is flawed and your glib read of 'the fed' is delusional but whatever... that's not even the biggest sin here. But you'll have to qualify and quantify how bitcoin is effective payment mechanism when it is barely ever used for that means and is demonstrably not performant.

[stalefish3169]

By what standard and measurement? Coverage, adoption and usage? Resource expense per trans? Number of trans per sec? Potential to scale?

I think your analogy is flawed and your glib read of 'the fed' is delusional but whatever... that's not even the biggest sin here. But you'll have to qualify and quantify how bitcoin is effective payment mechanism when it is barely ever used for that means and is demonstrably not performant.

If BTC is not an effective form of payment, then why do "scammers" want it? Quite the catch-22, isn't it? BTC is effective because it fucking works. Most BTC payments reach FINAL SETTLEMENT in under an hour with no credit risk. When someone uses their performant credit card to pay for Starbucks, FINAL SETTLEMENT involves multiple counterparties, which can take days.

[Mustonen]

If BTC is not an effective form of payment, then why do "scammers" want it? Quite the catch-22, isn't it? BTC is effective because it fucking works. Most BTC payments reach FINAL SETTLEMENT in under an hour with no credit risk. When someone uses their performant credit card to pay for Starbucks, FINAL SETTLEMENT involves multiple counterparties, which can take days.

Nope. The things that make it a great payment method for scammers (immutability, pseudonymity, lack of regulation) all serve to make it a piss poor payment method for general purposes.

And fuck off with your “multiple counter parties of a performant card” (what does that even mean?), that shit is virtually all transparent to the consumer and every step in the process is designed to provide accountability and protections to the consumer, merchant, and financial institution. If that’s the big advantage BTC is betting its future on the future of BTC is bleak indeed.

[CarlMega]

Nope. The things that make it a great payment method for scammers (immutability, pseudonymity, lack of regulation) all serve to make it a piss poor payment method for general purposes.

Correct. Attractive to steal, potential for fraud is not the measuring stick for payment acceptance. I could get back into scale and the friction at Point of Sale but that's unnecessary. Because no one uses bitcoin for payments. Calling it effective form of payment is like me saying I'm an effective marathoner....but I've never run one. Gain some adoption, some footprint then start making claims.

[J. Barron DeJong]

If BTC is not an effective form of payment, then why do "scammers" want it? Quite the catch-22, isn't it? BTC is effective because it fucking works. Most BTC payments reach FINAL SETTLEMENT in under an hour with no credit risk. When someone uses their performant credit card to pay for Starbucks, FINAL SETTLEMENT involves multiple counterparties, which can take days.

If I’m understanding correctly, Bitcoin is the only true crypto, all other is shit. But Bitcoin can’t scale to accommodate mass adoption (hence lightning network, etc.), so you need some non-BTC ‘shit’ crypto to make BTC work, or tradfi. So where does that leave BTC in the long run?

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://twitter.com/tier10k/status/1...zrDhdDSnwWiQOg

Is there a good word in ‘tradfi’ speak for such a novel crypto scheme?

[J. Barron DeJong]

Maybe if you make the same point in enough different ways it will get through:



https://twitter.com/smdiehl/status/1...zrDhdDSnwWiQOg

[carpathian]

It was clear after reading his past missives on economics that he has no idea what he's talking about. And I don't mean in the way economists disagree with one another on any given day. I mean there were lots of categorical and definitional errors made in the same way a freshman college student taking intro-to-macro might copy-and-paste from a hodge·podge of current event articles the night before, without knowing what any of it means, in order to submit a paper due the follow morning.

Reminds me of what it is like to read a Noam Chomsky book

[Tri-Ungulate]

Sorry TriU...

[snip]

Holding the bag might be better than not having a bag to hold. Listen to that set above. Because there is sure as shit not a rug to pull.

Wow... poetic. It's like a fukkin' crypto zen koan.

But where's the nekkid hippy chicks taken slightly out of focus with the medium format body and 120mm manual, wide open for gratuitously overdone bokeh?

That's art, goddammit.

I mean, c'mon, we're waiting.

[summit]

I'm liking this BITI... lets me make small bets for some harvests off of volatility, but if BTC goes near zero I profit instead instead of lose (since that is my bet on the long term trajectory).

It appalls me the way some of these companies like Celsius are operating. It just screams of intentional fraud and I hope there is justice for the people who lost access to their deposits.

[4matic]

I'm liking this BITI... lets me make small bets for some harvests off of volatility, but if BTC goes near zero I profit instead instead of lose (since that is my bet on the long term trajectory).

It appalls me the way some of these companies like Celsius are operating. It just screams of intentional fraud and I hope there is justice for the people who lost access to their deposits.

Voyager is more disturbing being a public company with supposed independent auditing.

Tether remains unaudited but obviously from the Voyager outcome that means nothing.

EBITDA:

Earnings Before I Totally Deceive Auditors

[LeeLau]

Mara impressive

Mined a whackload of coin. Didn't sell any. Decent cash position. It's the miner winner IF any of the miners win. Big IF though

[stalefish3169]

What were you guys saying about tradfi yesterday?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/08/roge...consumers.html

Life comes at you fast. lol

[Mustonen]

Cuz BTC doesn’t need the internet.

Or does a widespread network outage somehow help BTC do a better job with any of the shit it’s terrible at?

[J. Barron DeJong]

What were you guys saying about tradfi yesterday?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/08/roge...consumers.html

Life comes at you fast. lol

Didn’t realize the Bitcoin network didn’t require internet. How are all the nodes communicating? Through the ether?

[J. Barron DeJong]

Cuz BTC doesn’t need the internet.

Or does a widespread network outage somehow help BTC do a better job with any of the shit it’s terrible at?

To be fair, stopping it from running would limit the terribleness…

[schuss]

If BTC is not an effective form of payment, then why do "scammers" want it? Quite the catch-22, isn't it? BTC is effective because it fucking works. Most BTC payments reach FINAL SETTLEMENT in under an hour with no credit risk. When someone uses their performant credit card to pay for Starbucks, FINAL SETTLEMENT involves multiple counterparties, which can take days.

So what's the max transactions per second again? Isn't it like 7 or something silly?
Scammers want bitcoin because there's no clawback. Banks can't seize it.

It's not a catch 22. Of course people who work illicitly want a currency that isn't generally subject to know-your-customer laws and related actions. Maybe if you stopped trying to convince us you're some sort of super genius we might take you at least somewhat seriously.