12/26 Fatality on Pucker Face, just beyond the JHMR ropes

[Two06]

Was the cause of Mikes death asphyxiation or trauma? I wonder if an airbag would have been any help.

[seemorebroomwad]

Oceanman, very sorry for the loss. Thank you for the post.

[totaliboard]

Was the cause of Mikes death asphyxiation or trauma? I wonder if an airbag would have been any help.

ill bet you my season pass it wouldnt have.

[Trace Hardslab]

Oceanman, sorry for your loss. Hope you and everyone involved are OK.

You're a better man for telling us about it. And we're better for hearing it.

[bodywhomper]

thanks for the thoughtful and informative write-up , oceanman. as other's have said, that must have been difficult to write. sorry for your loss.

[_Aaron_]

Might be deserving of its own thread but I found this an interesting read.

http://tukadika.com/2013/12/27/two-w...ia-save-lives/

[Phatstix]

Total bummer. Oceanman, thanks for sharing your horrendous ordeal. My heart goes out to you, your crew, the other folks helping and Mike's family and friends.

If you don't mind me asking and for the sake of learning , is the quote below true? If so, how did that play into your decision to ski that face?

Guy cut the top half of a hang fire...

Vibes++

[totaliboard]

thats what took the rider down the slope.. the "decision to ski it" was made as soon as they saw him take the ride...

[BigMontana]

OM, thanks for sharing, tough writing you did there.

[Phatstix]

thats what took the rider down the slope.. the "decision to ski it" was made as soon as they saw him take the ride...

When I say "your decision to ski the face", I'm not talking about Oceanman, I'm talking about the entire group at the top before anyone has skied. If I see hang-fire, that means the slope has previously slid, which is an obvious clue, not too mention that what you will be skiing below the hang-fire is probably full of chunder and runnels. Some may think that this would make the slope safer below the hang-fire, others (like me) may want to choose a slope with smooth pow.
So, to re-explain, had the slope previously slid and Mike cut the hang-fire which slid and then stepped-down or was it fresh when the group decided ski and Mike dropped-in? (and then the group skied the hang-fire).
Sorry, this is not meant to dis or armchair....only for the sake of learning.
Very sorry again. Peace to Mike, the crew and family.

[Micol]

vibes to all affected

[meter-man]

OM, Thanks for sharing. Tough day, lost a brilliant soul in Mike, but very much appreciate your report.

RIP Mikey, see you shreddin in the great beyond.

[meatspicy]

When I say "your decision to ski the face", I'm not talking about Oceanman, I'm talking about the entire group at the top before anyone has skied. If I see hang-fire, that means the slope has previously slid, which is an obvious clue, not too mention that what you will be skiing below the hang-fire is probably full of chunder and runnels. Some may think that this would make the slope safer below the hang-fire, others (like me) may want to choose a slope with smooth pow.
So, to re-explain, had the slope previously slid and Mike cut the hang-fire which slid and then stepped-down or was it fresh when the group decided ski and Mike dropped-in? (and then the group skied the hang-fire).
Sorry, this is not meant to dis or armchair....only for the sake of learning.
Very sorry again. Peace to Mike, the crew and family.

there was a crown below the lowest cliffband from a natural slide that had occurred 2 days prior. essentially the entire upper 2/3 to 3/4 of the face was 'hangfire'

[iceclimberx15]

Thanks Oceanman. Your insight is much appreciated. Gods speed to your friend Mike.

[HVskier]

Heard on the radio today that the cause of death was asphyxiation. Sorry for the loss.

[Oceanman]

http://m.jhnewsandguide.com/news/fea....html?mode=jqm

As good of a piece a journalist who was not on scene could tell of our loss on Pucker last Thursday. We are in touch with EarlyUps and The Avalanche Review for a more open platform story to dig deeper. I'll keep y'all posted. Headed up to the park to poke around and dig some pits today. Nervous and excited to get back out there. Forever grateful for all of your support. Cheers

[slobmonster]

Another thank you (sincerely) for sharing. The alternative would be an as-per-normal isolation and insulation from your experience, which would allow others (locals and others) to quickly and easily form their own usually judgmental story line and easily forget about empathy.

I read the JHNG piece, and agree that it is very well written. As in: "Yes indeed, I have been in a similar situation myself, and could easily make the same decision." Only route to changing a heuristic is to keep examining it.

Only knew Mike a little bit, and sad that he is gone. Take care of yourself and your friends.

[babybear]

the JH news and guide article was pretty informative- more info than I thought there would be and very humble observations and reflections

[gtdrew]

ill bet you my season pass it wouldnt have.

I'll take that bet. He didn't die from trauma.

[totaliboard]

dude all im saying is if he slid down that whole face to the floor, i find it very unlikely that physically he was unharmed. as mentioned, a 45 deg slope.. it was R3D3, 12 minute burial.

[Oceanman]

Thanks again for everyone's support.

On the topic of the airbag... I spoke with Dave Miller, head guide of JHMR backcountry guides, and he believes that if Mike had an airbag and was able to inflate it, there's a good chance Mike would be alive.

Up until this accident I was not a big fan of airbags. I'd rather spend the money on education and close to 90%+ of the terrain I ride in the Tetons would shred a bag to bits. But look at pucker, no trees, clean run out, I think it's a no brainer that an airbag could help. This is the kind of terrain it was designed for right?

[totaliboard]

Om, i think you and drew are probly right. an airbag may have helped him stay above the debris, but like you said, airbags are not replacements for education. i believe the less you rely on your gear and more on knowledge of your environment, the better your outcome in most situations.

[kootenayskier]

dude all im saying is if he slid down that whole face to the floor, i find it very unlikely that physically he was unharmed. as mentioned, a 45 deg slope.. it was R3D3, 12 minute burial.

From the JHNG - "Evidence suggests Kazanjy died of positional asphyxiation, Teton County coroner Keily Campbell said. The way his neck was positioned and the pressure on it prevented blood from reaching or leaving the brain, depriving it of oxygen, he said".

I've no airbag experience to draw on, but this suggests to me that an airbag which provided protection/bracing around the neck area (such as the Pulse) could have helped in this instance. If you're going to make line calls on rad lines, an airbag seems like a useful accessory.

[creaky fossil]

Yeah, buy and use an airbag so you can ski those slopes prone to killing you. Technology will save you. Hubris is more nourishing than food water air & sleep.

[SchralphMacchio]

I think we are all on the same page here - we shouldn't have been on that slope.

But this incident changed my opinion on airbags. Before this incident, my opinion on airbags was similar to totaliboard - gear is not a substitute for good partners and sound decision making. I used to joke that If I had $1000 to spend on an airbag, and haven't done my AIARE1 ever, or haven't retaken it in a long time that I'd spend the money on my refresher and my partner's, and then spend the rest of the $500 on beer. The idea is not to get onto a slope that is called out as suspect unless you are willing to pay the ultimate price.

But those were my thoughts before I got caught in all the same traps that we've read about. That was before I considered just how easy it is to get baited ... It's one thing to read about human factors, Tunnel Creek and nod your head about all of those factors - large group that is way too stoked and way too complacent with the terrain. But what did Tremper just write about the rat standing above a maze, pointing his finger at the other rat inside and saying "you idiot!" The trap is a trap, because the dangers are hidden behind walls and around corners - hidden behind the cloud of human factors such as trust, complacency, deferral and excitement. The difficulty of sound decision making under a cloud of human factors is further compounded by sidecountry gates that magically transport you from the stoke of the tramdock to the danger zone of a minefield in minutes, while giving you no time to change mental gears that you are no longer in a safe area and that you need to work through your standard protocols to stay alive.

We shouldn't have been there, no. But we ended up there, and the next day Oceanman and I sat down with Mike's parents and talked about their son's last day in this world, and whether or not we thought an airbag might have saved his life. The information we got from the doctor on the scene and the initial coroner's finding suggests that an airbag would have greatly increased the likelihood of survival in this specific situation.

It's a difficult situation to reconcile. You never want to pay for your mistakes when the price is ultimate. But you also don't realize just how easy it is to make those mistakes, until that day that your luck runs out and you are staring at a 200' wide cloud of snow that just carried your buddy off the face of the planet.

I have a lot more thoughts to share on this incident ... have been doing a lot of thinking, through the grieving, sleepless nights and difficult days. I've been staying off the message boards and just lying low until I could get my head together. Trying to write something that would be worth sharing to the greater community in capturing the aftermath of it all.

But it's easier to just "come out" right now. I've taken stoke from this TGR community, learned a lot, met great friends, shared a lot of stoke myself, and now I just want to say to everyone that - yeah, it's really fucking easy to make mistakes that will cost people their lives.

Please wait for the details, and only trust information you get from Bridger Teton Avalanche Center or from a case study that we are working to put together. I will say that Angus did a great job on the article, and I've been told that he's seen this thing happen from all sides and had to see the aftermath of such deadly incidents. Until the more detailed writeups come out, I'll hope to share my own personal perspective that captures the emotional aftermath of such tragedy.

Finally, just a huge thanks to the Jackson community. SAR, guides, patrol, resort management, locals, BT avy center, everyone. Everyone has been so understanding and supportive, and a lot of folks risked their lives during the rescue. I can't ever forget that.