East Vail Slide 12/22/13

[Like a Boss]

You just KNEW somebody was going to troll/cunt this thread. OP, thanks for your candor. Glad you made it out.

[Lindahl]

Curious to know if you've been out there before all that new snow fell. The surface hoar was pretty fucking scary from what I heard, and very little wind to knock it down as the storm rolled in. Several were are on high alert, based on what they were seeing. How much did familiarity play a role in the plan for what to ski? Or was it a lack of knowledge of current conditions that led in to it all? Excited about continuing the fresh snow binge from the resort to bc? Curious what your thoughts were that led into the incident.

[trogdortheburninator]

Hi Edwin, thanks for sharing the story. Can you comment on whether your brother's stop was a planned watching zone, or was it more by luck that he stopped where he did?

[simplypow]

Thanks for all the work you've put into the narrative, and video. Fucking enigmatic that some assholes still think this forum is the place to fish for pre-teen pussy.

[edwin33]

Curious to know if you've been out there before all that new snow fell. The surface hoar was pretty fucking scary from what I heard, and very little wind to knock it down as the storm rolled in. Several were are on high alert, based on what they were seeing. How much did familiarity play a role in the plan for what to ski? Or was it a lack of knowledge of current conditions that led in to it all? Excited about continuing the fresh snow binge from the resort to bc? Curious what your thoughts were that led into the incident.

No, we had not been out before the new snow to observe the surface hoar. We chose terrain that we were comfortable with and knew well. Ignorance of conditions prior to the storm may have played a roll. As I mentioned, we had skied the exact same zone a few hours prior and observed nothing that put us on high alert. About ten sets of fresh tracks on the line may have given me a false confidence to ski further to the skiers right on the more exposed area than I otherwise would have. The place my brother stops on top of the cliff was the planned meet up, but I took the skier's right line around a small patch of trees, which is where I triggered the slide.

[icelanticskier]

The place my brother stops on top of the cliff WAS the planned meet up, but I took the skier's right line around a small patch of trees, which is where I triggered the slide.

pow fever runs strong. many of us have caught it. again thanx for sharing.

rog

[edwin33]

pow fever runs strong. many of us have caught it. again thanx for sharing.

rog

Just to clarify, going right around the patch of trees still would have taken me to the meet up spot had the slide not prevented me from cutting back left

[icelanticskier]

^^^^^^right on. thanx for clarifying.

rog

[bendtheski]

If nothing else, your post serves as a good reminder of how quickly things can turn to shit, and how when that happens, you can't always rely on responders outside of your own group to save your ass. Thanks Edwin for posting.

That was also a HOF rescue line your brother skied. Well done!
Very glad this didn't have a worse outcome.

Going strapless in the BC makes a lot of sense. Just curious; I've had a number of poles over the years that had break-away straps, but this doesn't appear to be the case with my latest BD poles. Easy enough to just not put them on, but sometimes I find myself doing it without thinking about it.

Seems like break-away straps should be a given, especially on any adjustable pole which you would expect is going to see BC use.

[dckiteboards]

Very glad your all safe! I allow for natural selection to take place before we venture in the bigger lines in EV ,I would get to know safer zones ASAP if you feel you need to continue back in EV . Very very lucky no one died. Even dood sending the cliffs could have seriously injured himself risking his fate by sending it to save his buddy. A few days earlier someone broke an ankle hucking in this same zone due to landing on a object under the snow , and had to extricate themselves .

No, we had not been out before the new snow to observe the surface hoar. We chose terrain that we were comfortable with and knew well. Ignorance of conditions prior to the storm may have played a roll. As I mentioned, we had skied the exact same zone a few hours prior and observed nothing that put us on high alert. About ten sets of fresh tracks on the line may have given me a false confidence to ski further to the skiers right on the more exposed area than I otherwise would have. The place my brother stops on top of the cliff was the planned meet up, but I took the skier's right line around a small patch of trees, which is where I triggered the slide.

[Lindahl]

On pole straps, its not just avys to be concerned about. Poles can snag on trees and deadfall and can easily dislocate your shoulder.

As someone else said, they can also act like handcuffs. I've gotten caught up on a hidden downed log before, flipped upside down and dangling, suspended in air (very steep terrain feature). Had my pole straps been on, they could have easily prevented me from undoing the binding and made self rescue likely impossible. Instead I just lost a pole till summer. Even with my hands free, it took about 15 minutes of really strenuous work due to the awkward upside-down and dangling position.

[bendtheski]

On pole straps, its not just avys to be concerned about. Poles can snag on trees and deadfall and can easily dislocate your shoulder.

Which is why at least some companies make break-away straps. Most people probably wouldn't even know that they had them, until they needed them.

OTOH, I haven't been such a big fan when I've wrecked IB, and had to hike back uphill for my pole with the strap still around my wrist, usually under a lift, while being heckled about needing a permit for a yardsale.

Maybe I should just try to pick up an old pair of scott thumb-breakers on gear trade?

[Lindahl]

I guess Abe's isn't a relative safety line, especially when deep slab danger exists..(but we all sorta knew this, right?) This slide had a 5' crown lower into the slope, and ran on the october snow, approx. 50+ yards wide, and pulled from the the lowest angles of the slope.(impressively low) I'm glad your still with us Edwin. R2D3.

What was the upper release/crown? Sounds like it stepped down partway down - is that what you're saying?

[Micol]

Glad you're alive. Thank you for your story. Hope you heal up ok

[Art Shirk]

Glad you are with us Edwin.

I had a close call in a tree well due to pole straps. Never use em now. Would rather lose a pole.

[Bunion 2020]

Very glad your all safe! I allow for natural selection to take place before we venture in the bigger lines in EV ,I would get to know safer zones ASAP if you feel you need to continue back in EV . Very very lucky no one died. Even dood sending the cliffs could have seriously injured himself risking his fate by sending it to save his buddy. A few days earlier someone broke an ankle hucking in this same zone due to landing on a object under the snow , and had to extricate themselves .

Well put without being a douche.

[wolfelot]

Glad you made it out. Xmas was extra special this year. For learning purposes please post what you learned or would do over.

[TBS]

Edwin, very stoked to see you survived relatively intact. You and your crew had a safety plan in place and executed on it when necessary. Good on you for contemplating your decisions in this misadventure.

Bet those folks who put in the earlier lines are thinking "WHOAH!!!" Or a word that starts with F.

Curious about your brothers rescue - is that a line he would have normally shot with confidence, or was that just a spur of the moment decision? Either way, nicely done!

Heal up fast - ya don't want to waste this lesson...

[edwin33]

Edwin, very stoked to see you survived relatively intact. You and your crew had a safety plan in place and executed on it when necessary. Good on you for contemplating your decisions in this misadventure.

Bet those folks who put in the earlier lines are thinking "WHOAH!!!" Or a word that starts with F.

Curious about your brothers rescue - is that a line he would have normally shot with confidence, or was that just a spur of the moment decision? Either way, nicely done!

Heal up fast - ya don't want to waste this lesson...

Yes, he'd hit the same line last season, but probably would have scoped it longer under normal circumstances. Thanks, just got the diagnosis, I tore my right MCL and ACL but the left knee is just badly sprained and won't require surgery. So, about six months recovery. Doctor said spraining my left PCL requires as much force as an ACL tear, which explains why my right knee felt better than the left after the slide

[simplypow]

Well put without being a douche.

Agreed, and at a time when douchebaggedness is at an all-time high.

ditch the straps.

[cranked]

Glad you are okay OP...recover well.

Not with the goal of MMQBing, but with the goal of learning from the collective, would love to turn this conversation into some analysis to improve the decisions of everyone. I am only a few years into the BC and am constantly working to learn - this seems an opportune moment.

The classes I have taken and people I have toured with have always preached line of sight...never lose visual contact with your partners. That has always made sense, but has always made me really focus on safe zones...if something rips, chances of multiple party members being involved feels like it increases. In this case, line of sight wasn't followed...and the response from the board seems to be okay with that, because there was a clear meet up spot and plan in place.

Curious how people tour...do you always follow line of sight practices or do you spread and meet up (and what are the + and - of each method)? Again, not critiquing or offering an opinion on what is best...just trying to figure out what best-practice is so my party is safest (along with minimizing safety impact on those that may be in the same area, even though they aren't with touring with us).

[icelanticskier]

Glad you are okay OP...recover well.

The classes I have taken and people I have toured with have always preached line of sight...never lose visual contact with your partners.

line of sight is VERY important. the brother skied to the meet up spot. waited, and was in a good enough spot to have a good, maybe better, line of sight for his fallen bro.

maybe not the exact plan, but it sure did work out perfect.

Curious how people tour...do you always follow line of sight practices or do you spread and meet up (and what are the + and - of each method)? Again, not critiquing or offering an opinion on what is best...just trying to figure out what best-practice is so my party is safest (along with minimizing safety impact on those that may be in the same area, even though they aren't with touring with us).

we always follow line of sight practices. we always ski one at a time even if low danger or meadow skipping. 1st person skis down to a chosen spot that is almost always in full view of the second skier about to ski and skier #1 always tries to stop where skier# 2 is in full view from below for his whole segment. in my avy i told my partner EXACTLY where i was gonna ski and to where. and i told him if something happened that i wouldn't ski out of his line of sight to far left or right. it all worked out.

rog

[TBS]

Curious how people tour...do you always follow line of sight practices or do you spread and meet up (and what are the + and - of each method)? Again, not critiquing or offering an opinion on what is best...just trying to figure out what best-practice is so my party is safest (along with minimizing safety impact on those that may be in the same area, even though they aren't with touring with us).

I have eyes on my partners all the time and expect them to do the same. In this part of the world, tree wells swallow you in a heartbeat and hide you well...

[summit]

This isn't a commentary on the OP, but an expansion of the discussion of backcountry travel, particularly in EV. I do see a lot of people in EV:

1. Skiing multiple people at one time, often not line of sight.
2. Not having the ability to travel uphill to help their buddies, no skins or snowshoes.
3. Skiing very long distances, like 800 or 1000ft, sometimes not line of sight.
4. Not having a preset communication ability, whether it is specialized yells, whistles, hand singals or radios, when out of line of sight and/or out of earshot.

People do it because it is more fun to skin continuous lines, you can get that 3rd run in, and it makes better footy on the Go Pro.

However, none of that makes it a good idea or responsible action to one's partners.

Always consider how long it will take you to reach your buddy if something happens in the worse place.
Always have a way to travel quickly uphill.
Always have communication ability beyond easy eye/earshot.
Always plan to avoid having multiple people skiing at the same time in avalanche terrain.
Always plan to avoid situations where you lose sight of your partners.

[bendtheski]

^Crosspost from the Kicking Horse thread, but I found this part particularly WTF?ish:

"Lee was riding behind Schroeder and when he reached the next check point and Schroeder wasn’t there, he knew something was wrong and contacted emergency crews"