Leach Field Trouble, WWMD?

[The Dude]

To start, we bought the house just over 5 years ago, we are the 3rd owners and it is our understanding that when the house was originally built, it was built to be a summer cabin. At the time of the purchase, we found nothing wrong with the plumbing, so didn't think twice about it. After moving in and getting settled, and the snow melted, we noticed a very small amount of water coming out of the ground at the lowest level in the leach field. Having been city folk, we didn't think twice about it and thought it was normal. Fast forward to last winter when so much water came out that it created an ice field about 50 feet long going downhill, 15-20 feet wide, and easily 18" deep.

I had a truck full of dirt dumped early summer and I buried the lowest point in the leach field hoping that it would resolve the issue of water coming out of the ground, and it did, until the rain storm of the century back in September. Ever since then, the water table has been high and at times, there would be a puddle sitting on top of the leach field after we ran the washing machine. The water would go away after a few hours, so of course, we let it be. Now that winter has set in, we are getting a section of frozen water sitting on top of the leach field and it is only getting bigger.

The leach field is approximately 50 feet long and I have no clue how the below grade piping is designed. I've called a blasting shop to give me an idea as to what can be done (quote over the phone was $3k), but is this the path we should be going down? We live at 10k on Mt. Evans, plenty of rock/bedrock, and they say they can drill a few holes, drop a few sticks of explosive and frack everything below the leach field giving it a new life. My fear is that the original owners may have gone the cheap route and done a single pipe from the septic to the vent with very little rock around the pipe to allow it to properly drain. With 3 of us already and 2 more to be born in March, I fear that the leach field will be inadequate in a few years. Earlier today I pulled the top off of the vent and measured 29" of water in the vent pipe, so I know we're screwed.

Does anyone have any experience or know of anyone in the Idaho Springs/Evergreen area that know what they're doing? I'm curious as to whether or not after we get the leach field staked (need to figure out how/who to do this without digging a bunch of holes) if blasting is the right course of action or if we should wait until spring to excavate and install a new system.

[From_the_NEK]

I'm not an expert on CO leach field regulations but it sounds like you're saying it is acceptable practice to blast/frack the bedrock so that it can absorb you leach field discharge? Doesn't that equate to discharging into the ground water? If so, remind me not to drink from your well.

It sounds like you need a new mounded leach system.

[El Chupacabra]

What's the history on the septic tank itself? (inspection, pumping, size, etc.)

[AdironRider]

Im siding with the new leech field route, it sounds to me like yours has failed.

Groundwaters issues as mentioned being the primary concern me thinks, and unfortunately this will not be cheap, whatever the ultimate resolution.

[The Dude]

I last had the septic tank pumped in May 2012, it is scheduled to be pumped again in May 2014. When it was pumped, the septic passed inspection. the tank itself holds 500 gallons between the 2 sides. We live in a 4 bedroom/3 bath home and we were told that the system was adequate for the size home we have. The concrete lid that was the original lid did have a few cracks in it, so I bought a bigger one and just set it on top of the hole and buried it (septic tank is 18" under my driveway).

The leach field is 300' away & downhill from the well, we get the water tested annually and the water far exceeds the minimum quality standards, so we're not worried about the drinking supply.

We have all of the paperwork that was filed with the county regarding the septic and I have a feeling back in the 80's Clear Creek County really didn't care too much about inspection as all of the paperwork is wrong in regards to the septic tank location and the leach field location, so I have a strong suspicion that the septic/leach field was not done correctly.

[Dhelihiker]

I would need a lot more info. Access is huge component; i.e. can a machine easily access the area? Can you add on to your existing field? The rate of permeability of your soil is huge. Are you getting ground water or run on/off? If its run on, can you get that into the storm system? I know you said rock but again too vague.


The simple answer is get a shitload of quotes and learn from each one. Look at the exclusions and inclusions and compare them to the other quotes. Take the cheap quote, make sure he includes everything and giv'r. A local guy will have local solutions.

Don't let the first guy on your property to talk you into going with him. Sorry Im getting more quotes, is this your best price? Have a nice day, don't call me Ill call you.

[spook]

you could always call the county, which will be sure to fuck you harder than the private contractor. i'm pretty sure you can't just blast it deeper and cover it with more dirt.

[hawkgt]

dehlihiker got it best.... get a lot of quotes and prepare by ordering extra paddles.

[The Dude]

Access is very easy, adding on is not so easy, but could be done with a lot of tree removal. The leach field is unfortunately downhill from my dirt driveway and gets quite a bit of runoff, especially in the spring during the thaw. No storm system to route water into, however we could trench in the spring and put in some french drains along the driveway, although they'll eventually clog from dirt & debris.

I had been toying with the idea of getting the septic drained in the spring and immediately excavate everything, about 50 feet long, 12 feet wide, and going down about 5 feet. I've got a neighbor with a big ass excavator that I can use for the cost of fuel. I figured get a big hole dug out, fill it with 3' of gravel, lay the pvc pipe and then bury in more rock before topping off with proper cover and dirt. Getting the gravel up here though is not as easy as I had hoped and can get rather expensive when dealing with 3k cubic feet of rock. This is as close as I got to DIY.

When calling around to get estimates, should I be calling excavation companies that specialize in leach field design? I've searched for leach field and septic experts and not getting many hits.

[bushman]

Don't run your washing machine into your septic system until spring when you can fix it proper.

[The Dude]

Don't run your washing machine into your septic system until spring when you can fix it proper.

not so easy to do when town is 15/20 min away and the ground is already frozen so I can't auger a dry well.

[spook]

and if you pick the wrong contractor who cuts corners and avoids permits if the authorities catch it you'll be fucked even harder.

[iceman]

The system has failed, you need a new leach field, hopefully you have room. Go down to the county and see if they have a backup field laid out but if it's an older place they probably don't. If there's no backup field then you are scrambling, follow dh's advice. Expensive no matter what happens at this point.

[userA]

unfortunately your leach field appears to be clogged, probably sludge buildup and compaction of area. careful overwhelming your tanks till you can move your outflow to a new leach zone.
back-up into your home is worse then dirty clothes.
get professional help
b

[Art Shirk]

Fast forward to last winter when so much water came out that it created an ice field about 50 feet long going downhill, 15-20 feet wide, and easily 18" deep.

(1) Draft Waiver
(2) Charge a few bucks
(3) ??????
(4) Profit

[spook]

hey if you can ski on treated sewage you can fucking skate on untreated sewage.

hope you have nice county people.

[The Dude]

unfortunately your leach field appears to be clogged, probably sludge buildup and compaction of area. careful overwhelming your tanks till you can move your outflow to a new leach zone.
back-up into your home is worse then dirty clothes.
get professional help
b

I get that it is failing, but is blasting a reliable solution? I'd much rather have 4-8 holes drilled & shot. The lay of our property and slope would make it extremely difficult to relocate the leach field to anywhere else on our land. and the property is old enough that the county doesn't have any backup mapped out.

[hawkgt]

I've done a leach field but very different (other than shallow bedrock) of what you have done. I would think blasting under would help ONCE you get new drain lines. Over time they sludge up as well as surrounding soil and not much you can do other then dig up and re-do.

if you do new lines... do not use std pvc with drain holes, check out "gravelless leach pipe" much better at holding volume for slow draining soils.

[KQ]

Sounds like a failure or at least a clog. You can try using "Drain Maid" by BioSmart to remedy the situation - might work/might not but certainly worth a try. I swear by this stuff. If you still need to put in a new drain/leach field def. pick some up to maintain things in the future.

You mention you were "city folks" - I was there too before I moved east so I did a little research into septic dos & don'ts. Make sure you're treating your system right by not using bleach, flushing feminine products or hooking up a disposal. I know some ppl say it's all good but I say why give yourself headaches and spend money where you don't want to if you can just adjust your way of doing things.

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[userA]

using the same area you may be able to shift the outflow pipes laterally within the field. percolation is important but the soil has to be bacterially viable to handle the effluent. your plumbing past the pump should have multiple branching pipes at the leach field boundary, if yours is single you could be in luck.
b

[spook]

you may end up having to do something like this advanced treatment system if you have no space for a backup drainfield. i don't know if they're approved by your DEQ. if you have a difficult site sometimes they will make an exception and you get to be the guinea pig.

http://www.orenco.com/sales/homeowner_basics/

i've gone through two recent serious septic system issues (relatives) with two different counties. one of them is run by smalltown bumfucking dumbshit egomaniacs and the other is run significantly more professionally and in accordance with the law to their capacity, which isn't huge.

personally, i see a public health issue so i don't consider septic problems a harm only to the owner sort of thing, no matter how expensive it is.

i've seen and heard of some pretty fucked up shit done to get systems to "get by." and i've watched people lie straight to my face when discussing what they knew about the conditions of the systems.

[Vt-Freeheel]

You need an engineer to access your site and design a replacement system. After getting a permited design you then solicit bids to build the system. You cannot cobb something together on your own.

[iceman]

you may end up having to do something like this advanced treatment system if you have no space for a backup drainfield. i don't know if they're approved by your DEQ. if you have a difficult site sometimes they will make an exception and you get to be the guinea pig.

http://www.orenco.com/sales/homeowner_basics/

i've gone through two recent serious septic system issues (relatives) with two different counties. one of them is run by smalltown bumfucking dumbshit egomaniacs and the other is run significantly more professionally and in accordance with the law to their capacity, which isn't huge.

personally, i see a public health issue so i don't consider septic problems a harm only to the owner sort of thing, no matter how expensive it is.

i've seen and heard of some pretty fucked up shit done to get systems to "get by." and i've watched people lie straight to my face when discussing what they knew about the conditions of the systems.

This post doesn't sound much like spook. Sorta sounds like commonlaw or maybe Big Steve, just saying.

[stfu&gbtw]

You cannot cobb something together on your own.

[Vt-Freeheel]

I was wrong, could go fancy