With all of the concussion and helmet talk out there...

[Theo-san]

I know it does not help now, but from what I understand a company by the name of 6d is going to make helmets soon.
With my dirtbike crash, I got to test it at the extreme, and to my eye would work perfect for slow speed crashes too. I told the guy they could make a fortune in snow helmets.
He said they were going to bike helmets, then snow..It will work, if they can get the weight down, which I think they can.
I told him to let me know, and I would be the first to buy
http://www.6dhelmets.com/
Watch this vid, he raced the b main after, which is the reason I bought one. I have no affiliation. My wreck was as bad, if not worse than this.
I think the technology can be used for a light ski helmet. We will see

I hope you're not trying to say that was not a concussion. He got knocked the fuck out.

[justr]

Do ski helmets crack and crumple like bike helmets? Are they one time pop and toss out like a bike helmet?

Serious question since I've never seen it happen w a ski helmet. And I see lots of heads smacked on shit on skis without helmet replacement.

I do think that barring some kind of airbag for head... size is a major limiting factor. My anecdotal tidbit involves landing upside down at lowish speed from 1 meter on a bike like a self pile driver followed by tucked chin and forward roll... helmet didn't shatter but I did fracture my larynx and compression fractures in t3-5... though not very bad since I didn't notice until two weeks later via MRI. Thicker helmet might have been just enough to create the kind of rotational forces to do one in.

[justr]

I also presume most concussions that are not fatal in skiing involve head to snow + slide + rotation not head to fixed object like tree or rock.

[::: :::]

Do ski helmets crack and crumple like bike helmets? Are they one time pop and toss out like a bike helmet?

Serious question since I've never seen it happen w a ski helmet.

current helmet technology for skiing is single incident, just like biking.

[Vinman]

Frozen groomers and park hits are pretty fixed I'd say.

[LeeC]

I hope you're not trying to say that was not a concussion. He got knocked the fuck out.

Maybe, maybe not.
My point was I would have thought he would be in a hospital, instead of winning the B main. The helmet worked well enough to keep him riding at a high level.
I have had slow speed crashes with other helmets that concussed me at slow speed, as little a 5mph.
My crash was at a higher speed, and thrown 96 ft without as much as a headache..You decide.

I know athletes lie, but here are his words, and from what I read there are doctors there that perform the same baseline tests like they do in football.
I dont want to turn this into a contest, just saying that I believe this technology will work, and hopefully soon.

From an article
Zach Bell crashed in spectacular fashion at the Dallas supercross. For all you arm-chair quarterbacks and people who think you are smarter than a doctor on scene AT EVERY round of motocross and supercross.


Zach Bell's Twitter

Zach Bell ‏@zachbell100

"Of my crash. Just lost my breath and didn't know if i should move, thanks everybody for you're support. Means the world to me. I thank god"

[Vinman]

Just because he rode doesn't mean he didn't have a concussion,

Don't need to loose consciousness to have a concussion, and losing consciousness does not indicate severity of a concussion.

[Hugh Conway]

Maybe, maybe not.
My point was I would have thought he would be in a hospital, instead of winning the B main. The helmet worked well enough to keep him riding at a high level.
I have had slow speed crashes with other helmets that concussed me at slow speed, as little a 5mph.
My crash was at a higher speed, and thrown 96 ft without as much as a headache..You decide.

eerrrr, he probably shouldnt' have... if he gives a shit about his brain.

[justr]

Just because he rode doesn't mean he didn't have a concussion,

Don't need to loose consciousness to have a concussion, and losing consciousness does not indicate severity of a concussion.

This.

Riding may have been a stupendously bad idea too... the second concussion after seemingly minor first is a killer. Hence the goal of a quick sideline protocol for determining if a concussion is happening even if a player seems fine at first glance.

[LeeC]

Made a few changes.. above.
Motocross racers have to pass a baseline test like football players.. If they pass they ride, if not they are done till they pass..

[~mikey b]

current helmet technology for skiing is single incident, just like biking.

not true

some helmets use EPS to provide for multiple impacts - bike and ski

http://www.pocsports.com/en/content/...ctive-concepts

[Vinman]

Athletes are notorious liars when it comes to competing or not, also sx. Are often delayed in their onset.

Just ask any if the nfl guys who recently have cone forward with symptoms of CTE....

[LeeC]

I will put it another way.
If you had this same crash on a ski hill, would you rather have the technology that Zach Bell had on? How do you think your average ski helmet would come out.
If you look at 6D's website that I posted, they have all the g force differences at different speeds, so you can make up your own mind whether it works. All I am basically saying is there are companies out there that are trying to find technology to help. Its a step.
One that I believe in.
I have raced all my life, and concussed a few, I have also been knocked out without anything touching my head..G force is brutal in a lot of different ways.
I posted a link to their website, here is another explaining why it differs. take a moment to look

http://www.6dhelmets.com/#!ods/c10b6

Edited one more time: I am not saying Zach was or was not concussed, I am sure he had a concussion of some kind. The point I was making, was that by looking at the video, most would assume an ambulance ride. Whether he should, or should not have raced is someone else's call. I just figured that if that guy could crash that hard, and even get back up, the helmet did its job.

[cmcrawfo]

http://www.6dhelmets.com/
Watch this vid, he raced the b main after, which is the reason I bought one. I have no affiliation. My wreck was as bad, if not worse than this.
I think the technology can be used for a light ski helmet. We will see

Dude, you got suckered. The only reason he raced again was because the medical team clearly doesn't understand the basics of head injury management.

The kid was clearly TKO. If he was even remotely conscious, he would have been moving around in an attempt clear the track.

Sure, suction cupping elastomer to your head sounds cool, but if this video provides zero support for their product.

[cmcrawfo]

Admittedly, I am no math-ologist.

The fact that he got up is not astonishing...for that matter, I could spew a never ending stream of videos showing people surviving amazing amounts of force, with little to no protection.

Its impossible to measure the cumulative effects of concussion on individuals.. at least until post-mortum exam. Did his helmet do the job, yes (he is not dead). Will he suffer any long term sequelae, impossible to know. Would any other moto helmet on the market keep him alive? ... judging from the shit I am watching on youtube right now, I would say yes.

[cmcrawfo]

It is probably more realistic to look to things like mouth guards and neck braces to aid in reducing the severity of concussion.

[gointhedistance]

Dude, you got suckered. The only reason he raced again was because the medical team clearly doesn't understand the basics of head injury management.

The kid was clearly TKO. If he was even remotely conscious, he would have been moving around in an attempt clear the track.

Sure, suction cupping elastomer to your head sounds cool, but if this video provides zero support for their product.

I agree - that guy got F-ed and both him and the medical team were being stubborn in the post accident management.

Either way - I think the 6D concept is neat... seems similar to MIPS... but the 6D guys need to put up some REAL data, otherwise it's just claims like everyone else.

LeeC - That video is definitely not evidence to the effectiveness of their product - its a subjective judgement on your behalf of that helmet, in that scenario, in that crash. There is alot of nice marketing claims on the site - for their product, and I'm not saying it's bad. I might be really good... but prove it.

[jfost]

It is ridiculous to use one incident as proof that a particular helmet design does anything. Every crash is different, and forces are applied differently, and brains and skulls are different etc etc...

However, any effort to improve helmet design from a safety perspective is not a bad thing.

[Vinman]

Mouth guards do not protect against concussion nor will a neck brace

[cmcrawfo]

Mouth guards do not protect against concussion nor will a neck brace

I was surprised by your mouth guard statement ... but ya, no kidding. blah blah blah bunch a of research concluded they do little to protect against head injury..... the however the same studies also demonstrated the helmets dont actually protect against concussion either... rather, they protect the integrity of the head..... fuck, so does this mean Rog is right?

...back to the question, can they make a better helmet? (it doesn't sound promising)

Re: Neck Braces ... I was never sold on them, but the DH and Moto community sure is. They haven't been around long enough for there to be enough info on them, but I am pretty sure the manufactures are making claims to that effect...something about affecting the way the head moves and acceleration..again, me no speak math. All I know about neck braces is anecdotal, but the first season they became popular, I was working in an ER close to a DH bike park. There were several individuals, rocking their very expensive neck braces, and fractured collar bones from very low speed crashes.... I dont know, If I had to have a concussion, I would rather not have a broken collarbone at the same time.

[LeeC]

I don't want to derail this thread into a pissing match..I am just trying to help. All you armchair concussion experts can make up your own mind.
I am not going by graphs. I could give a fuck about opinions on why or how you think I got suckered. I watched the video, researched the shit out of the helmet, and bought one.
I was not using graphs or opinions when I smashed 10 bones my body, and was thrown 96 ft from impact. Had every fucking cat scan, and MRI to find head trauma with none. Doctors in the hospital heard about my crash, and kept coming in to find out why my head was not fucked. A minimum of 5 doctors asking me what helmet I was wearing, because the only time they had seen body damage like mine was on a corpse. They were absolutely positive I had to have brain trauma.
6D got a hold of me so they could examine it to see what went right, or wrong. How many of your helmet makers are willing to do this.. It tested fine, and no damage to the helmet, or my brain, so say what you need to justify what you think. It did its job.
I real world tested this shit, Not just a video. I don't give a fuck about graphs. As I said before, just trying to help others from getting hurt.
Take it or leave it, means shit to me. I know what I will be wearing. What is your head worth to you.

[cmcrawfo]

....... All you armchair concussion experts can make up your own mind...... I could give a fuck about opinions ....Had every fucking cat scan, and MRI to find head trauma with none.

Cool story Bro.

[Atrain505]

Did anyone in this thread actually look at the website? Not the video. The website. Lots of people saying where is the proof. Oh my god where is the proof? Look at the website.

They did tests with measurements against other helmets and the standard certifications and every time the 6d helmet came out on top. Any decrease in force on the brain is a good thing. The numbers support it. Obviously it would have to be verified by a non affiliated 3rd party, but based on their numbers the 6d helmets seems to work. Doesn't matter how big the difference in numbers is. Any decrease in force could be the difference between a 2 week recovery and a 6 month recovery or potentially a lifetime of issues.

Step in the right direction. I applaud them and hope more companies take note. Brain should always be priority number one with helmets.

[Hugh Conway]

Did anyone in this thread actually look at the website? Not the video. The website. Lots of people saying where is the proof. Oh my god where is the proof? Look at the website.

They did tests with measurements against other helmets and the standard certifications and every time the 6d helmet came out on top. Any decrease in force on the brain is a good thing. The numbers support it. Obviously it would have to be verified by a non affiliated 3rd party, but based on their numbers the 6d helmets seems to work. Doesn't matter how big the difference in numbers is. Any decrease in force could be the difference between a 2 week recovery and a 6 month recovery or potentially a lifetime of issues.

Step in the right direction. I applaud them and hope more companies take note. Brain should always be priority number one with helmets.

Ugh man, it's a bunch of marketing spin on that website. Clearly quite effective stuff. Proof? No idea.

[Vinman]

Moto neck braces are there to prevent spinal trauma not concussion. I can see that maybe if they reduce the whiplash effect that maybe they could decrease the schlooshing around of a brain. This is likely not the main reason they are used though