Spinners???

[SupreChicken]

So, before I go mounting anything else, I want to solve a recent issue I've started having in my mounts.
I got one spinner in a piste jib/solly mount. Epoxy w/ wood plug is curing as we speak. Then ill redrill and retry. If that fails, I have some nylon inserts from slidewright en route.

I just check the pow nas/p18 mount i did from earlier this summer, and all 4 screws in both toe pieces are spinning. They weren't like that at first. I doubt (I guess it's possible, but seriously?) I doubt that I didn't get a single hole straight. Anyone else had that issue with those clamps or those skis? The clamps were lightly used, the lib tech POWs were new.

Any idea what I did wrong? Standard jondrums mounting tools and template. Did not use a guide because I was hoping to avoid drilling through the base. Amazing goop glue.

[Snowy Spartan]

Over torquing each screw?

[D(C)]

How many days did you ski them? It's a good idea to check screw tightness every so often.

[skimaxpower]

Did you use glue when you installed the bindings? Glue is necessary to keep water out, otherwise the wood will rot and the screws will rust.

[LC]

Not drilling straight is the main reason. Overtorquing a slightly crooked hole will definitely do it.

Epoxy and fibreglass (roof insulation) has fixed a few spinners for me very well over the past few years (big thanks to XXXer for the knowledge). Go VERY heavy on the fibreglass in the mix, pack the holes, snug screws, let set, fully tighten.

[auvgeek]

No idea why your Pow NAS mount is screwed up now if it wasn't when you mounted them. That's just odd.

My only advice would be to use a tap to cut the holes. It's commonly done for inserts, but it can be done for regular screws the same way (different tap). I think it alleviates the tendency for over-torquing.

[SupreChicken]

D/C - neither pair has been skied yet!
SMP - yup, I used amazing goop glue - per Marshal's recommendations.

Aight then, fiberglass and torque less

[Conundrum]

Does the NAS have metal in it (I'm unfamiliar)? What size bit diameter and length? Was there a bevel at the top of each hole? How tight are you screwing the screws in? What type of glue? Is the binding flush with the ski? Did you check the screw length (was there a riser pad you didn't use or did you use a riser with screws meant for no riser)? Were the holes crooked? Are the holes slightly off (you used a template and not a jig correct)?

There's lots of factors that could all play a role. The fact that you got four spinners each on two separate toe pieces says it might be time to pay someone to look at your work and correct it. It could be a shop or a buddy but get a second opinion on your work. Mounting skis yourself can be rewarding and fun but it's also an easy way to spend more money than paying someone else when you factor in wrecking gear or your body when you are arcing a 40 mph turn and then suddenly your ski is gone.

[milestogo]

You did not say how many beers you drank during each mount. You might have a problem there...

I have found the only spinners I get are from drilling the hole at an angle. Unlikely, but you might also not have the bit in the drill properly, which could result in a wider diameter hole? It only needs to be off a tiny bit. Do you use enough glue? Flip the skis upside down after mounting? Someone once told me that helped make sure the glue was in the threads and not underneath or at the bottom of the screws...just some thoughts.

[XXX-er]

Epoxy and fibreglass (roof insulation) has fixed a few spinners for me very well over the past few years (big thanks to XXXer for the knowledge). Go VERY heavy on the fibreglass in the mix, pack the holes, snug screws, let set, fully tighten.

actualy I use 1cm chopped up strands of fg cloth which is usually available at hardware stores, I make sure to wet out the FG with the best slowset epoxy but resin rich layups are actualy not as strong , run the screw in till it starts to spin and let it set

if you can crank the screw down like you normaly would 24hrs later ...yer golden

I use a wine bottle cork or piece of wood which I drill thru then I rechuck to leave only the amount of drill bit I want able to go in the ski, that guide lets you hang on to the front of the drill & helps stabilize the drilling IME

[GeezerSteve]

There's lots of factors that could all play a role.

QFT

Most spinners are user error but plenty of spinners happen notwithstanding good work cuz some individual skis have soft spots. I always tap and if in doubt I install helicoils. I'll always have a ski helicoil kit stocked with plenty of helicoils.

[shroom]

weird, i thought i remembered you having one spinner on the Nas- now four? there was nothing weird about that process.. not like this is your first rodeo. I've used steel wool successfully in the past.

[Timberridge]

QFT

Most spinners are user error but plenty of spinners happen notwithstanding good work cuz some individual skis have soft spots. I always tap and if in doubt I install helicoils. I'll always have a ski helicoil kit stocked with plenty of helicoils.

Perhaps its the bio-bean topsheets LIB uses?

But seriously, as above...100% on tapping. I'm pretty much addicted to inserts now, which you have to tap and I see the benefit.

Not sure what Lib uses in the cores but with the soft woods like poplar and paulownia, if you bear down too hard when "tapping" with the screw you chew up the wood fibers and the screw won't hold. A bottoming tap really helps avoid this.

[Conundrum]

There are a lot of options now...quiver killers, other types of inserts, giving up on that mount and using a plate, etc. But if you decide to go heli-coil, here's a thread burried in the depths.

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ight=heli-coil

[Johnny Deep]

QFT

Most spinners are user error but plenty of spinners happen notwithstanding good work cuz some individual skis have soft spots. I always tap and if in doubt I install helicoils. I'll always have a ski helicoil kit stocked with plenty of helicoils.

This!


54321

[Damian Sanders]

3.5mm drill bit.....right?

[Shorty_J]

I actually got two spinners last night. Used those nylon inserts and they're awesome... fixed in minutes.

In my case I was using a 4.1mm bit because I knew the skis had metal, but the metal must be very thin/soft because I didn't apply that much torque and still got spinners. I think in future I'll drill all holes at 3.5mm and MAYBE do only the very topsheet at 4.1 to get through the metal a bit wider.

Could also have been a difference in wood species... who knows.

In your case is is possible you didn't get the screw rotating in the old threads before torquing them? That might have destroyed the existing threads.

[SupreChicken]

yes. Confirmed with lib that there is no metal underfoot.

[Conundrum]

I actually got two spinners last night. Used those nylon inserts and they're awesome... fixed in minutes.

In my case I was using a 4.1mm bit because I knew the skis had metal, but the metal must be very thin/soft because I didn't apply that much torque and still got spinners. I think in future I'll drill all holes at 3.5mm and MAYBE do only the very topsheet at 4.1 to get through the metal a bit wider.

Could also have been a difference in wood species... who knows.

In your case is is possible you didn't get the screw rotating in the old threads before torquing them? That might have destroyed the existing threads.

Did you tap after 4.1? I haven't been learned up on current techniques (can't imagine they've changed that much) but the general rule used to be tap 4.1 holes, don't tap 3.5. 4.1 holes for skis with metal, 3.5 for no metal. I don't think tapping a 3.5 causes any harm and I'm guessing the old rule was because 3.5 didn't really require it so why take the time. Can't confirm that though.

[plugboots]

Nobody calls short women "spinners"?

[Shorty_J]

Did you tap after 4.1? I haven't been learned up on current techniques (can't imagine they've changed that much) but the general rule used to be tap 4.1 holes, don't tap 3.5. 4.1 holes for skis with metal, 3.5 for no metal. I don't think tapping a 3.5 causes any harm and I'm guessing the old rule was because 3.5 didn't really require it so why take the time. Can't confirm that though.

No, I didn't bother tapping. Didn't have any trouble starting the threads right away and there was no top-sheet lift on the spinner holes that I could see when I removed the binding to repair those with nylon inserts.

[GeezerSteve]

Tapping vs. not tapping ==> cutting threads in the core vs. compressing threads in the core. IME, tapping results in fewer spinners, assuming all other factors are the same.

Nobody calls short women "spinners"?

short and small, say, size 4 or smaller

[Shorty_J]

Tapping vs. not tapping ==> cutting threads in the core vs. compressing threads in the core. IME, tapping results in fewer spinners, assuming all other factors are the same.

Fair enough.

I'm sure you're right that this generally is a better way to go. The only other time I've had a spinners was a once in a woad core ski (user error) and another time foam core that I didn't tap... which supports your assertion.

[skimaxpower]

Tapping vs. not tapping ==> cutting threads in the core vs. compressing threads in the core. IME, tapping results in fewer spinners, assuming all other factors are the same.

Always, always TAP ALL HOLES.

[userA]

tapping whether you can spin em or not is the new tgr standard.
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