School Me on Epic Pass Euro Skiing- Les 3 Vallées/ Verbier/ Arlberg

[Kevo]

I'm thinking about heading to Europe this winter. Mrs. Kevo and I have enough airline miles for RT tickets to get to anywhere in Europe and we both have Epic Passes.

According to Vail resorts, we apparently get "5 days at each Verbier, Switzerland; Arlberg, Austria (St. Anton, St. Cristoph, Stuben, Züers, and Lech); and now Les 3 Vallées, France (Courchevel, La Tania, Méribel, Brides-les-Bains, Les Menuires, Saint Martin de Belleville, Val Thorens et Orelle, France)"

I'm a complete jong when it comes to the subject of skiing in Europe. I don't know anything about any of the places listed, nor do I know anything about Euro off piste avalanche protocol (is control work done, etc).

I'm looking for info on the places listed above. Which have the best skiing? What is the vibe of each place- which place is ritzy, crowded, expensive, mellow, etc? Which place is the most reasonably priced? Are any places listed easier to get to from a major airport than others?

If you had 10 days to go, where would you go?

I should also mention that Mrs. Kevo is a snowboarded, in case any places listed above aren't particularly conducive to snowboarding. She's really good though, and can get down anything. We're also both knowledgable about avalanche terrain and we both have gear, although she doesn't have a splitboard.

Thanks!

[Hugh Conway]

only been to St. Anton/Arlberg and Verbier. There's simply way to much skiing to classify for either. You won't get bored in a week at either place. pistes are groomed runs. the rest (for the most part) is "off piste" and isn't controlled and there's tons of it. Bring avy gear. Both are/were popular with "freeriders", people who post on TGR, and plenty of other people (ime comparatively crowded to other destinations, particularly with foreigners of many stripes) and comparatively expensive to other things close to them (Verbier more so than St. Anton). St. Anton's easy to get to via rail or transfer service, Verbier isn't too bad either (have to take a gondola/bus from the rail station to the town?). St. Anton will be much easier to find a cheaper room and have cheaper food and beer. In addition to some of the more consistant powder* it's also known for apres ski partying - head to the Mooserwirt. Crowds depend very much on what time of year you go - what time of year are you looking at?

Neither of them would be a bad choice, or a bad place to go if you've never been. Really, could easily pick between the 3 based on ease of getting to/from an airport with cheap tickets and have a kickass trip. Only thing I'd say is the free lift tickets may not offset the increased cost compared to other places. For other places there's simply way to many to list.

[Kevo]

only been to St. Anton/Arlberg and Verbier. There's simply way to much skiing to classify for either. You won't get bored in a week at either place. pistes are groomed runs. the rest (for the most part) is "off piste" and isn't controlled and there's tons of it. Bring avy gear. Both are/were popular with "freeriders", people who post on TGR, and plenty of other people (ime comparatively crowded to other destinations, particularly with foreigners of many stripes) and comparatively expensive to other things close to them (Verbier more so than St. Anton). St. Anton's easy to get to via rail or transfer service, Verbier isn't too bad either (have to take a gondola/bus from the rail station to the town?). St. Anton will be much easier to find a cheaper room and have cheaper food and beer. In addition to some of the more consistant powder* it's also known for apres ski partying - head to the Mooserwirt. Crowds depend very much on what time of year you go - what time of year are you looking at?

Neither of them would be a bad choice, or a bad place to go if you've never been. Really, could easily pick between the 3 based on ease of getting to/from an airport with cheap tickets and have a kickass trip. Only thing I'd say is the free lift tickets may not offset the increased cost compared to other places. For other places there's simply way to many to list.

Thanks! We're thinking late January or anytime February- how would crowds be at that time?

[Hugh Conway]

at least for St. Anton, late January was much less busy than late February. Similar applied elsewhere. The stanton website has most of the booking info you need for lodging + map + prices if you are researching.

[jwolter7]

February can get very busy when the schools are on holiday, January is a much better time to ski in Europe. Snow conditions during January (on all the different aspects and elevations) will be better for skiing off the groomed runs, which is what these "Epic Euro" resorts are know for. Ski Euro land when it's the coldest and the sun is the lowest.

[AmmergauerTele]

Been to a few ski areas in Europe now. I found St. Anton to be my favorite. One thing in Europe the tree line is around 1600-1700m around the St. Anton/Austria area. So if it is snowing expect white out conditions which is quite difficult to ski above. It is said that the St. Anton area is the snowiest in Europe. The town there is nice - good walking district, plenty of restaurants. You can take the bus to Lech/Zurs and hit that - easily the size of St. Anton proper ski area. Tons of skiing here. Lech seemed to be the location of the "beautiful people." I recommend a nice five day trip here. You will not be disappointed....

[Marius]

so why not go 5 days to Arlberg and 5 to Verbier? Same with the frenchies (never been there). Train system works fine on these locations, especially St.Anton.
Close by airports are Geneve and Zürich for Verbier, Zürich and Munich for Arlberg. Trains you find here: Switzerland http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html
For Arlberg the Austrian railways usually is the cheapest:
http://www.oebb.at/en/index.jsp
For Munich try als the German railway: http://www.bahn.de/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml

All Airports have a good train connection.

[justr]

The usual euro differences are true: pistes are mostly hyper groomed and boring. Off piste is considered back country for legal purposes... not patrolled, controlled, or covered for financial purposes for injury/rescue/transport. Major obstacles like cliffs and holes tend not to be marked. Don't follow tracks...

[subtle plague]

i would consider the trois valles. they tend to get asmuch snow as verbier. (anton usuallygets more in nw/n/w weather) are cheaper, and the semi offpisste is waaay bigger. you can have more fun skiing sidecountry (which is backcountry here... dont be fooled by gapers without equipment offpiste! ). The French ski offpiste a lot as well, but trois valles is also some sort of happy go lucky family resort thing whereas anton has the reputation for off piste and even joe gaper skis off piste there. Same for verbier. So: 3 valles as many people, more terrain (it is the biggest linked ski area on earth!) and less reputation= more pow for you. BUT france is not as much of a snow magnet.

[Hicks]

All depends on timing and what you are willing to shell out. Also are you a sort of bar star or can you get away with less apres?

Regarding timing as mentioned before already late January rates will be considerably lower than from early Feb on when it's peak season again. If you are on a budget then look for accommodation around Pettneu (Arlberg), Nendaz/Le Chable (Verbier) or St. Martin de Belleville (Trois Vallees). If not then your best option is monitoring snow levels and book immediately before you leave, well doable during January. All resorts mentioned offer great terrain so you can't go wrong with any of them.

At any place mentioned you will face competition for obvious pow stashes and first tracks - particulary at Verbier and the Arlberg - so if you can hook up with any knowledgable local crew willing to show you around that's a big advantage.

[Incompetent Boob]

What are you looking for?
Skiing? Steeps? Views? Apres ski?
Generally I recommend people visit Europe in March. Jan is good but normally cold. Euro winters often don't get so much snow, which means if it hasn't been snowing it can be pretty icy making a lot of the offpiste less enjoyable (or just dangerous). March tends to get good some good storms but otherwise be warm and sunny so you get some nice spring conditions and more stable offpiste (and less ice on death traverses etc). Feb is school holidays and busy everywhere. March is typically a bit busier than Jan, at least early March.

I don't know so much about the 3 vallees, but all 3 options should have great terrain and keep you happy. I imagine St Anton and Verbier are prob the easiest to combine with public transport. A train ride across the alps is also not a bad way to spend a day if the weather is clear.

St Anton:
Typically the snowiest of the 3
Quite expensive by Austrian standards
Some of the most renowed apres ski bars in all of Europe
Lots of Germans and foreigners from around the world
Good guide book for offpiste
ca. 4hrs from Munich airport

Verbier:
Very expensive and posh (Nendaz is much cheaper, good for skiing but dead for nightlife)
The best lift-served steep offpiste in the world??
Most offpiste easily accessed and seen from the lifts
Playground of many rich and famous (many of Europe's royals), lots of Brits and Swedes
About 2.5hrs from Geneva airport

Europe is a completely different riding experience to NA. Although you can just go exploring, every year people are heli-vac'd out when they find themselves stuck above a cliff or fall in a crevasse because they were exploring or following tracks. Nothing is marked or controlled and people are crazy. Sometimes those tracks belong to speedflyers as well
Best bet if you can afford it is to get a guide or join a guided group on the first day to get a feel for the resort. Otherwise try to find some locals to show you around but be careful as there are lot of people with little regard/knowledge of avalanche conditions.

PS Forget the SPAM above. On The Mountain has the best range of equipment (skis & boards) in Nendaz.

[ClarkleberryFinn]

As well as the pistes (all groomed) there are 'ski routes' too (at least in the Arlberg) - avi controlled, marked on the map (with diamonds) but not necessarily on the ground and not patrolled. Often tracked to fuck within 10 mins of the lifts opening, but that's the only avalanche protected ungroomed stuff you'll find (so bring your beeper!).

I don't know about the others, but the Arlberg is ace, and just got better with the new link to Warth-Schroecken. Gets lots of snow, great apres. Having the option to skin will make it much easier to find untracked for longer after a storm; the lift-served and obvious stuff can get tracked pretty quickly. Cheap rooms just down the valley from St Anton in St Jakob or Pettnau (5 & 10 mins on the free ski bus). Easy train ride from Munich or Zurich.

[Hugh Conway]

public transport. A train ride across the alps is also not a bad way to spend a day if the weather is clear.

It's not bad sight seeing at all but it'll take a day, more for better scenery. No way via public transport you could realistically fit 10 full days of skiing and move taking the train(check times, blah blah, ive done it shit changes, but it's 7-8 hours of transit between the two and things don't move much at night anymore) Between the arlberg and verbier engelberg or andermatt would be worth a couple days for something different. There are other places as well. You can ski into St Jakob via an off piste route; Pettneu has a cheaper market than the one in St. Anton if you aren't eating out for every meal. Both are/were very sleepy; only a couple places to eat out. Not a bad walk to me, or there's buses/night buses. Cheaper pensions will likely require a bank transfer for a reservation, no credit cards. It's probably place dependent but most Austrian pensions ime laid out a sizable breakfast.

[Kevo]

Great info, thanks everyone!

To answer some questions- we'd be going primarily for skiing/boarding. We're not really into the apres ski bar scene. I'd say that we both prefer quieter evenings, so nightlife is not really important.

We'd be brining avi gear, but likely wouldn't be brining touring gear since Mrs. Kevo doesn't have a splitboard. Cramponing/climbing something is also not likely given her soft snowboarding boots.

[workinforturns]

My friends and I had the epic pass 3 seasons ago or something and we apparently weren't clear that we were NOT getting it for the next season and they charged us again the next year! A bunch of emails and phone calls to the bank later it was fine. Maybe you can make it smoother on yourself?

[itsnowjoke]

The Three Valleys makes up the world's largest ski area with over 200 lifts. It is indeed epic! It will keep you busy for a week. Meribel is in the center valley, and if a raging après scene isn't necessary it's the place I'd recommend.

The entire region reminds me of a massive Squaw Valley; if you're skiing with someone of dissimilar ability one of you can take an ultra-steep route and the other can take an intermediate groomer. You will both end up at the same lift. However, the runs will be 4-5 thousand vertical feet instead of only a couple of thousand.

I haven't been to Arlberg or Anton, but from the way it sounds I don't think you can go wrong. Euro skiing is incredible.

[Mr. Mike]

I have skied 3 Vallees and the Arlberg. I did Arlberg last year. Your best gateway from the US to Arlberg is Zurich in my opinion. There are direct flights there from numerous US cities, and once there, the ski bus runs 2-3 times a day each weekend day to and from, for approximately a 3 hour trip. These are nice, comfortable motor coaches, and they drop you off in the Arlberg village of your choice. There are no intermediate stops (it isn't public transit). The swiss train system is amazing, but it's nice to not even have that little extra hassle of figuring out train connections when you show up jet lagged on a Saturday morning.

Your best gateway from the US to 3 Vallees is Geneva. A negative is that there are fewer direct flights from the US to Geneva than to Zurich. You can do the inter-Europe connection and you have a lot more options, but I'm flying out of a city with no direct flights to Europe, and I find the 3 leg flight a real barrier. Total travel time goes up significantly and that last leg inter-Europe seems painful. Once in Geneva, similar bus or van service as described above for the Arlberg is available.

I usually work backwards when trying to figure out where to go in Europe--start messing around with the flights and determine which gateway city I can get to with the least hassle and dough. Then figure out where I'm going to ski from there. The bottom line is that all of the big Euro resorts are freaking awesome in their own way, so you can't go wrong with the choices above if you have never been.

I've never been to Verbier, so can't comment on logistics there.

I have always done my euro skiing in early March--either first week or 2nd. I've had a couple of trips where it was quite slushy at the bottom, but the top was awesome. I've had a couple where you didn't go high at least a couple of days because of the whiteout-treeline issue mentioned above. It's hard to get your head around 6-8,000 feet of skiable vertical until you experience it. Bottom line is that it will rarely ever be great top to bottom. Some days, or even entire weeks, you will mostly ski the top half of the vert and others you will mostly ski the bottom half.

[Arno]

I have skied all of them. Money no object and with someone who know where they are going I would take Arlberg/Verbier over 3 Valleys but only by a very small amount. That said, the 3Vs are probably a bit more user friendly - the lift system is a bit more logical IME and as others have said it has more families/gapers so gets tracked out less quickly

[maskinut]

How long do you think it takes from when your plane lands to when you could be on the slops at St. Anton? It looks like 2 hours on the road and then probably another 1-2 hours to get through baggage and customers. ... Seem about right?

[comish]

How long do you think it takes from when your plane lands to when you could be on the slops at St. Anton? It looks like 2 hours on the road and then probably another 1-2 hours to get through baggage and customers. ... Seem about right?

Thats probably a bit quick. Which airport? Zurich is by far the fastest / easiest. I think someone above mentioned the ski bus which takes 3 hours. You can look up the trains, but if the gods align its probably similar, but I would plan on more because they don't run super frequently. If you drive, I'm thinkin you are about right, but there is zero reason for a car in St. Anton.

Incompetant Boob, I'm coming back in Jan, the week of the 11th specifically. Hopefully I can bring a bit of the pow we had 2 years ago! Staying in Stuben this time. Saves a lot of $$$

I have been to all 3, but to be fair, never scored good snow in Verbier the 2 times I was there. Your mind will be blown by any of them. They are all soooo much bigger than anything you can contemplate from the US its mind blowing. For me its about the snow and St. Anton delivers the goods whereas Verbier and the Frenchies are just more fickle with snow. I would actually argue the terrain in Verbier is the best of the three for a good off-piste skier, but it doesn't matter if hasn't snowed in weeks... That said, the real answer here is just go! Wherever it works money and logistics wise you will be stoked with as the experience of Euro skiing isn't to be missed. I'm schleping 3yr old twins and a 5yr old to enjoy if for 2 weeks this January. That tells you when I prefer the Arlberg... Cold, deep, and as uncrowded as it gets in the main season.

[ClarkleberryFinn]

How long do you think it takes from when your plane lands to when you could be on the slops at St. Anton? It looks like 2 hours on the road and then probably another 1-2 hours to get through baggage and customers. ... Seem about right?

1 hour absolute max to get through customs, usually less than 30 mins when I've flown into Munich, 15-20 if you can fly into Innsbruck.

Depends how you'll travel, car, bus or train? If you can fly into Innsbruck (probably unlikely) it's just over an hour to Anton whether you drive or take the train. Depending on how the bus times line up (they're pretty regular) an extra 10 minutes from the airport to the train station.

Zurich is (roughly, it's been a while) 3 hours ish on the train? Munich fairly similar.

[maskinut]

Thanks for the tip.

When it comes to 3 Vallees which resorts are closest to each other? I am trying to ski two resorts in a day while there.

Here is what I think makes sense from a tour of Google maps and some websites. Do I have it right?

Courcheval and La Tania
Orelle and Val Thorens
Les Meneuires and Meribel
St Martin de Belleville and Brides les Bains

[comish]

Thanks for the tip.

When it comes to 3 Vallees which resorts are closest to each other? I am trying to ski two resorts in a day while there.

Here is what I think makes sense from a tour of Google maps and some websites. Do I have it right?

Courcheval and La Tania
Orelle and Val Thorens
Les Meneuires and Meribel
St Martin de Belleville and Brides les Bains

The reality is you can ski from one side of the 3 Valles to the other in 1 day. That is if you don't do a lot of off-piste that day and just cruise. Don't worry about what you can cover, you will just figure out where the snow is, and what works. Its so big that the reality is that most of the top lifts have enough terrain to keep you busy for 1/2 a day at a time if you are exploring and going off-piste. I would figure out where you want to stay from a price, logistics, proximity to where you think you might ski (think high elevation if the weather is good). Everything is with-in a few lifts.

For example, the first time we went, just to see everything we started in Orelle, went all the way to the far side of Courcheval and then all the way back to Orelle. We didn't get to explore that much, but just cruised to cover ground. Another time we kept it to 2 of the 3 valleys. If you are there for a week you will have plenty of time to explore everything and you still won't scratch the surface of the off-piste.

[Arno]

The 3Vs resorts all interconnect into one huge area. Get yourself a full area pass and go where you like. One of the fun things about this type of Euro skiing is that you can ski from village to village rather than just pound the runs around one particular village.

[maskinut]

Nice. I'm doing the epic pass race so being able to hit all of them will be key. Any favorite towns that have a good combo of nightlife and central access? I saw some places in Bozel and Rhone Alps that looked cheap but seemed a bit remote.

I'd like to be able to ski easily but also be in a place where there is some alps culture ( food, drink, music) around.