BD Jet Force airbag

[bean]

Okay am being a retard over this one point, but it is false advertising because it is not possible.

Well, you got one thing right.

Not one of us have seen the tests. Maintaining volume with a 7" tear is a big claim, but to claim that it's absolutely not possible is a bigger claim.

IMO it boils down to this: the bag, as presented and currently marketed, is a big step forward - but all we have is their short presentation and have to take BD at their word. No amount of beta testing can replicate some of the situations that real world users get themselves in to, and we're going to have to wait a bit longer to see how it all shakes out under actual use. I hope that it's as good as they say, and I'm optimistic - but I'm happy that there will be another year of development and tweaking with limited release to see how it really performs before buying one is even an option for me.

[Hugh Conway]

so what yer saying is there's a year or two of breathless hype about how awesome it is remaining.

[bean]

so what yer saying is there's a year or two of breathless hype about how awesome it is remaining.

Breathless hype AND breathless hate, if the TGR hiveminds can keep focused on one product for that long anyway. Once we get the final product they'll move on to the next maybe-big thing, of course.

[Hugh Conway]

Breathless hype AND breathless hate

nature (and messageboards) abhor a vacuum. I mean when product is 2 years away from mass market how much faith can you put in model descriptions/feature sets from a manufacturer that cycles packs yearly? It sounds cool, could definitely fix some problems, it's all in the details. In an absence of real info, not much will change. no one's going to do a hard-hitting review of it until that happens no matter what, anyways, so it's all fluff and filler.

[misfit toy]

OH Poo. Why not intergrate the lung. And what gen should be bought, batt and fan, bag upgrade...---...

[misfit toy]

AND SIDE COUNTRY IS BE COMMING MORE Accessible!

[Meadow Skipper]

... the TGR hiveminds ....

That was funny.

[timmaio]

PSA, certain jetforce airbags are in stock on BD's website

[DasBlunt]

Saga 40L 3600grams 7.93 pounds.

build is perfect, BD style, everything where you expect it, ultra light material.

Digging into the manual now.

Paid retail. suck it.

[DasBlunt]

Well, here it goes, highlights.....this thing is big, BTW, and really well designed.....Like my Avalung pack, but more "slick".

1. There is a specific temperature range for charging the battery pack.

If outside that range, 32F - 113F, 0C - 32C, the charging cycle will shut down as follows; the system will indicate an error "Status Light", and shut off the charging cycle.

a. Hopefully they will have a software fix for any number of interesting scenarios trying to get a charge below 32F. Multi-day camping trips? Maybe I am wrong too.

2. New, 1st time, to charge battery fully, could take 12 hours at "room temperature".
After that initial 1st time, typical charging time is 6 hours. I assume "typical" charging time is meaning temperature dependent.

trudging along here. Accepting spanserships in my PMs.


3. Firing the airbag though, has a much wider usable temperature range, obviously....the battery at its lowest indicator light, can deploy at least once at the bags lowest estimated (I assume) and specified operating temperature of -22F, -30C.


4. In the instructions, maybe someday change the order to include arming and disarming in one section, along with the disarm warning about heli, planes, lifts.

5. Black Diamond says the bag is "certified" for 50 deployments ( certified is BD words). The instructions do not indicate what, if anything, happens after this number is reached and "certification" ends....or it may not matter. Estimated normal use, 5 years. Actual lifespan may be longer or shorter depending on use and abuse.

Black Diamond says 3-5 years use on the Li- battery. There is a part number for the control module and battery, so I assume replacement parts will be an option. Really great news.

Full charge in 6-7 hours, first time. Blew the bag and re-packed it twice....super easy. You basically get 8 pops at room temp. With the extremes here in Colorado, I bet I can get 4 ( not that you would need it) when out in the BC for a over nighter or whatever.

[HikeforTurns]

^ "build is perfect". Not my impression checking it out in the store yesterday. Im waiting for Jetforce 2.0 or Arcteryx.

[DasBlunt]

^ "build is perfect". Not my impression checking it out in the store yesterday. Im waiting for Jetforce 2.0 or Arcteryx.

Thought the opposite. Still do after popping it and re-packing it. Easy, well built and light.

[BLOOWERPOW]

I love my new Saga. It carries like a dream like my other BD packs. I really didn't even notice the extra weight of the airbag. Supporting a great company like BD also makes me smile!

[BLOOWERPOW]

Wasn't meant to be but whatever! The back panel zipper is also killer.

[sal the salmon]

why wouldnt they make it USB charge so it in theory could be charged off a brunton/goal zero solar panel without the need for an inverter?

[adrenalated]

Probably needs WAY more power than those things can put out.

[sierraskier]

For those who have one or who have fondled a 28 can you comment on the packable size? Blister says it's pretty small - I'd like something that can handle a solid day tours worth of gear, which for me is basic safety gear (shovel, probe), puffy, extra gloves, skins, lunch, camera, and ~70 ounces water. Also is there a way to get a hydration hose from the pack out to the right strap? Thanks

[~mikey b]

Probably needs WAY more power than those things can put out.

Truth

[DasBlunt]

The charger plug is super small.

Not sure what the extra would be.

[sal the salmon]

well, gernerally speaking in a front or backcountry base camp setting, you can run pretty much anything on solar. clearly, your not charging in on your rest day with a 35w panel.

but say your base camping, and you alrdy have 12v solar set up, you could certainly recharge the thing. granted at that point, you could have an inverter as well, but it ass more equipment and if your say, flying somwhere, that might be very relevant. it is really easy on the other hand, to charge a 12v device using 120 power. most off the grid/expedition solar set ups are not charging directly to the device, instead charging to a storage devince which can then transfer the stored energy to the device.

maybe it has something to do with the charging cycle of the lithuim ion power supply, i dont know. but i think its the only thing that might have made this even more badass.

there are good options out there though that can make 120, so its not an end all.

[adrenalated]

well, gernerally speaking in a front or backcountry base camp setting, you can run pretty much anything on solar. clearly, your not charging in on your rest day with a 35w panel.

but say your base camping, and you alrdy have 12v solar set up, you could certainly recharge the thing. granted at that point, you could have an inverter as well, but it ass more equipment and if your say, flying somwhere, that might be very relevant. it is really easy on the other hand, to charge a 12v device using 120 power. most off the grid/expedition solar set ups are not charging directly to the device, instead charging to a storage devince which can then transfer the stored energy to the device.

maybe it has something to do with the charging cycle of the lithuim ion power supply, i dont know. but i think its the only thing that might have made this even more badass.

there are good options out there though that can make 120, so its not an end all.

Wattage is a measure of electrical energy with respect to time. Watts = joules (energy) / seconds (time, obviously). Watts also = volts * amps. So a typical household 120V 15A circuit provides 1800W of power. The Jetforce pack takes somewhere around 6 hours to charge plugged into a household circuit, according to BD. So that means about 6,480,000 Joules are required to charge the Jetforce battery.

A USB 3.0 connection can transfer 4.5W. A 35W panel means that the panel charges the battery at 35W. But the power output from the battery to whatever it is charging is only 4.5W. To get that same 6,480,000 Joules into the battery when only charging at 4.5W, it would take 400 hours, or over 16 days.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure that's why they didn't do USB charging.

[DasBlunt]

all this charging talk.....remember this from the instructions...

There is a specific temperature range for charging the battery pack.

If outside that range, 32F - 113F (0C - 32C) , the charging cycle will shut down as follows; the system will indicate an error "Status Light", and shut off the charging cycle.

Nothing below 32F......i don't see how anyone can charge in the BC with that type of system.

You might not need to charge...@8 pops on a full charge is pretty good.

[jono]

6.5 MJ in those batteries, huh? Sweet blow me up the skintrack, I'll take two! Sadly, the assumption that 15A is constantly drawn during charge is incorrect.

DasBlunt, Hugh're so lucky this came out so Hugh could camp in the backcuntry and not have to worry about getting caught by the 7th avy of the trip. Getting that 9th ride without returning to the grid, though...FKNA.

To put it another way: if you have one of these please keep useful information coming; worrying about the charge "limitations" on the only device that lets you have multiple inflations (without toting extra equipment) is just derailing the thread.

[adrenalated]

6.5 MJ in those batteries, huh? Sweet blow me up the skintrack, I'll take two! Sadly, the assumption that 15A is constantly drawn during charge is incorrect.

You're absolutely correct. I wasn't thinking clearly last night.

The household circuit is CAPABLE of providing that much power. I don't know how much power the Jetforce draws. Certainly less. But, since BD built the pack to only be charged by a 120V household circuit, I think it's safe to say that it requires enough to require that circuit vs. a USB circuit.

My apologies for being mostly full of shit on that one.

[coldfeet]

A typical wallwart AC adapter might put out 12VDC at 1-2 A, so 12-24 W, several times the power available from USB. DasBlunt has the charger, he could tell us the rating printed on it. I haven't seen one of these things, but it must have a lithium battery of order a laptop battery or bigger, not like the smaller batteries on ipads, phones, GPS that are typically charged over USB.