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  1. #26
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by canwilf View Post
    Okay am being a retard over this one point, but it is false advertising because it is not possible.
    Well, you got one thing right.

    Not one of us have seen the tests. Maintaining volume with a 7" tear is a big claim, but to claim that it's absolutely not possible is a bigger claim.

    IMO it boils down to this: the bag, as presented and currently marketed, is a big step forward - but all we have is their short presentation and have to take BD at their word. No amount of beta testing can replicate some of the situations that real world users get themselves in to, and we're going to have to wait a bit longer to see how it all shakes out under actual use. I hope that it's as good as they say, and I'm optimistic - but I'm happy that there will be another year of development and tweaking with limited release to see how it really performs before buying one is even an option for me.
    "It need not be fun to be fun." - Big Steve

    throughpolarizedeyes.com

  2. #27
    Hugh Conway Guest
    so what yer saying is there's a year or two of breathless hype about how awesome it is remaining.

  3. #28
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    so what yer saying is there's a year or two of breathless hype about how awesome it is remaining.
    Breathless hype AND breathless hate, if the TGR hiveminds can keep focused on one product for that long anyway. Once we get the final product they'll move on to the next maybe-big thing, of course.
    "It need not be fun to be fun." - Big Steve

    throughpolarizedeyes.com

  4. #29
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Bean View Post
    Breathless hype AND breathless hate
    nature (and messageboards) abhor a vacuum. I mean when product is 2 years away from mass market how much faith can you put in model descriptions/feature sets from a manufacturer that cycles packs yearly? It sounds cool, could definitely fix some problems, it's all in the details. In an absence of real info, not much will change. no one's going to do a hard-hitting review of it until that happens no matter what, anyways, so it's all fluff and filler.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    HATU.
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    429
    OH Poo. Why not intergrate the lung. And what gen should be bought, batt and fan, bag upgrade...---...
    "I, the undersigned,
    shall forfeit all rights, privileges, and licenses herein
    and herein contained, et cetera, et cetera . . . fax mentis
    incendium gloria culpum, et cetera, et cetera . . . memo bis
    punitor delicatum!" It's all there, black and white, clear
    as crystal! You stole Fizzy Lifting Drinks. You bumped
    into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized,
    so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    HATU.
    Posts
    429
    AND SIDE COUNTRY IS BE COMMING MORE Accessible!
    "I, the undersigned,
    shall forfeit all rights, privileges, and licenses herein
    and herein contained, et cetera, et cetera . . . fax mentis
    incendium gloria culpum, et cetera, et cetera . . . memo bis
    punitor delicatum!" It's all there, black and white, clear
    as crystal! You stole Fizzy Lifting Drinks. You bumped
    into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized,
    so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Mi lugar feliz
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    8,126
    Quote Originally Posted by Bean View Post
    ... the TGR hiveminds ....
    That was funny.
    山、川、森林、砂漠、海、空

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Breckenridge
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    497
    PSA, certain jetforce airbags are in stock on BD's website

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Colorado
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    Saga 40L 3600grams 7.93 pounds.

    build is perfect, BD style, everything where you expect it, ultra light material.

    Digging into the manual now.

    Paid retail. suck it.
    Last edited by DasBlunt; 12-09-2014 at 10:52 PM.
    Terje was right.

    "We're all kooks to somebody else." -Shelby Menzel

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Colorado
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    Well, here it goes, highlights.....this thing is big, BTW, and really well designed.....Like my Avalung pack, but more "slick".

    1. There is a specific temperature range for charging the battery pack.

    If outside that range, 32F - 113F, 0C - 32C, the charging cycle will shut down as follows; the system will indicate an error "Status Light", and shut off the charging cycle.

    a. Hopefully they will have a software fix for any number of interesting scenarios trying to get a charge below 32F. Multi-day camping trips? Maybe I am wrong too.

    2. New, 1st time, to charge battery fully, could take 12 hours at "room temperature".
    After that initial 1st time, typical charging time is 6 hours. I assume "typical" charging time is meaning temperature dependent.

    trudging along here. Accepting spanserships in my PMs.


    3. Firing the airbag though, has a much wider usable temperature range, obviously....the battery at its lowest indicator light, can deploy at least once at the bags lowest estimated (I assume) and specified operating temperature of -22F, -30C.


    4. In the instructions, maybe someday change the order to include arming and disarming in one section, along with the disarm warning about heli, planes, lifts.

    5. Black Diamond says the bag is "certified" for 50 deployments ( certified is BD words). The instructions do not indicate what, if anything, happens after this number is reached and "certification" ends....or it may not matter. Estimated normal use, 5 years. Actual lifespan may be longer or shorter depending on use and abuse.

    Black Diamond says 3-5 years use on the Li- battery. There is a part number for the control module and battery, so I assume replacement parts will be an option. Really great news.

    Full charge in 6-7 hours, first time. Blew the bag and re-packed it twice....super easy. You basically get 8 pops at room temp. With the extremes here in Colorado, I bet I can get 4 ( not that you would need it) when out in the BC for a over nighter or whatever.
    Last edited by DasBlunt; 12-12-2014 at 04:46 PM.
    Terje was right.

    "We're all kooks to somebody else." -Shelby Menzel

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Denver, Co.
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    1,423
    ^ "build is perfect". Not my impression checking it out in the store yesterday. Im waiting for Jetforce 2.0 or Arcteryx.
    "I almost feel bad for the guy, awakening the veritable Sauron's Eye that is TGR's sense of entitlement to judgement! " - Joe Strummer

  12. #37
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    Feb 2010
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    Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by HikeforTurns View Post
    ^ "build is perfect". Not my impression checking it out in the store yesterday. Im waiting for Jetforce 2.0 or Arcteryx.
    Thought the opposite. Still do after popping it and re-packing it. Easy, well built and light.
    Terje was right.

    "We're all kooks to somebody else." -Shelby Menzel

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Snowmass
    Posts
    151
    I love my new Saga. It carries like a dream like my other BD packs. I really didn't even notice the extra weight of the airbag. Supporting a great company like BD also makes me smile!

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Snowmass
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    151
    Wasn't meant to be but whatever! The back panel zipper is also killer.

  15. #40
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    Nov 2010
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    stevens pass
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    why wouldnt they make it USB charge so it in theory could be charged off a brunton/goal zero solar panel without the need for an inverter?

  16. #41
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    Dec 2006
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    Beer:30
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    Probably needs WAY more power than those things can put out.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    817
    For those who have one or who have fondled a 28 can you comment on the packable size? Blister says it's pretty small - I'd like something that can handle a solid day tours worth of gear, which for me is basic safety gear (shovel, probe), puffy, extra gloves, skins, lunch, camera, and ~70 ounces water. Also is there a way to get a hydration hose from the pack out to the right strap? Thanks

  18. #43
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    Jan 2004
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    the Low Sierra
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Probably needs WAY more power than those things can put out.
    Truth

  19. #44
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    Colorado
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    The charger plug is super small.

    Not sure what the extra would be.
    Terje was right.

    "We're all kooks to somebody else." -Shelby Menzel

  20. #45
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    Nov 2010
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    stevens pass
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    well, gernerally speaking in a front or backcountry base camp setting, you can run pretty much anything on solar. clearly, your not charging in on your rest day with a 35w panel.

    but say your base camping, and you alrdy have 12v solar set up, you could certainly recharge the thing. granted at that point, you could have an inverter as well, but it ass more equipment and if your say, flying somwhere, that might be very relevant. it is really easy on the other hand, to charge a 12v device using 120 power. most off the grid/expedition solar set ups are not charging directly to the device, instead charging to a storage devince which can then transfer the stored energy to the device.

    maybe it has something to do with the charging cycle of the lithuim ion power supply, i dont know. but i think its the only thing that might have made this even more badass.

    there are good options out there though that can make 120, so its not an end all.

  21. #46
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    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by sal the salmon View Post
    well, gernerally speaking in a front or backcountry base camp setting, you can run pretty much anything on solar. clearly, your not charging in on your rest day with a 35w panel.

    but say your base camping, and you alrdy have 12v solar set up, you could certainly recharge the thing. granted at that point, you could have an inverter as well, but it ass more equipment and if your say, flying somwhere, that might be very relevant. it is really easy on the other hand, to charge a 12v device using 120 power. most off the grid/expedition solar set ups are not charging directly to the device, instead charging to a storage devince which can then transfer the stored energy to the device.

    maybe it has something to do with the charging cycle of the lithuim ion power supply, i dont know. but i think its the only thing that might have made this even more badass.

    there are good options out there though that can make 120, so its not an end all.
    Wattage is a measure of electrical energy with respect to time. Watts = joules (energy) / seconds (time, obviously). Watts also = volts * amps. So a typical household 120V 15A circuit provides 1800W of power. The Jetforce pack takes somewhere around 6 hours to charge plugged into a household circuit, according to BD. So that means about 6,480,000 Joules are required to charge the Jetforce battery.

    A USB 3.0 connection can transfer 4.5W. A 35W panel means that the panel charges the battery at 35W. But the power output from the battery to whatever it is charging is only 4.5W. To get that same 6,480,000 Joules into the battery when only charging at 4.5W, it would take 400 hours, or over 16 days.

    So yeah, I'm pretty sure that's why they didn't do USB charging.

  22. #47
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    Feb 2010
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    Colorado
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    all this charging talk.....remember this from the instructions...

    There is a specific temperature range for charging the battery pack.

    If outside that range, 32F - 113F (0C - 32C) , the charging cycle will shut down as follows; the system will indicate an error "Status Light", and shut off the charging cycle.

    Nothing below 32F......i don't see how anyone can charge in the BC with that type of system.

    You might not need to charge...@8 pops on a full charge is pretty good.
    Terje was right.

    "We're all kooks to somebody else." -Shelby Menzel

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,827
    6.5 MJ in those batteries, huh? Sweet blow me up the skintrack, I'll take two! Sadly, the assumption that 15A is constantly drawn during charge is incorrect.

    DasBlunt, Hugh're so lucky this came out so Hugh could camp in the backcuntry and not have to worry about getting caught by the 7th avy of the trip. Getting that 9th ride without returning to the grid, though...FKNA.

    To put it another way: if you have one of these please keep useful information coming; worrying about the charge "limitations" on the only device that lets you have multiple inflations (without toting extra equipment) is just derailing the thread.
    Last edited by jono; 12-18-2014 at 11:50 AM.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    6.5 MJ in those batteries, huh? Sweet blow me up the skintrack, I'll take two! Sadly, the assumption that 15A is constantly drawn during charge is incorrect.
    You're absolutely correct. I wasn't thinking clearly last night.

    The household circuit is CAPABLE of providing that much power. I don't know how much power the Jetforce draws. Certainly less. But, since BD built the pack to only be charged by a 120V household circuit, I think it's safe to say that it requires enough to require that circuit vs. a USB circuit.

    My apologies for being mostly full of shit on that one.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SW Jongistan
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    412
    A typical wallwart AC adapter might put out 12VDC at 1-2 A, so 12-24 W, several times the power available from USB. DasBlunt has the charger, he could tell us the rating printed on it. I haven't seen one of these things, but it must have a lithium battery of order a laptop battery or bigger, not like the smaller batteries on ipads, phones, GPS that are typically charged over USB.

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