Squamish Gondola

[LeeLau]

weird inversion. much of the euro shit was built when there was nothing; canada backfillls. Why not a 100-150 person hut? It's not uncommon in ze Alps; it'd fill on weekends and really give "the people" access. As a tiny pissant hut it's retahded.

BC Parks put really strict limits on the hut size.

[Hugh Conway]

So, BC parks made the guide concessions spaces that much more valuable. Nice work.

-just a wanker who occasionally visits the sea-to-sky.

[Clownshoe]

Obviously, that was tongue in cheek. In all seriousness Hugh, as I said before, this is not a quaint small mountain community. It's a multi billion dollar ski mega resort. By extension, so is the rest of the valley.

It is what it is. It's Vegas on skis. If you like it, here it is. If not, there's many other small town ski areas around where you can earn minimum wage and ride fixed grip chairlifts. With the exception of people who've been here since the 70's, it's kind of silly for people to bemoan the loss of our small town innocence.

It's a major economic driver for the whole province, and it supports a great community of normal people who benefit from tourists coming here and emptying their wallets. The Peak to Peak Gondola, (which i originally thought was a colossal waste of money) has turned out to be a huge draw, and has driven a shitload more business to our town. In retrospect, it was probably a really good investment.

I live in a condo in a normal neighborhood and live a normal life, as does 99% of the people here. If I want to pretend I'm a rockstar or a high roller, I can go to the village and be a bar star. I can take in the tourist junk show or I can ignore it completely. I can just chill with my friends and family and ski everyday. I can stand in line for Spanky's or the Peak Chair, or I can tour somewhere and ski fresh lines all day. It's what you make of it I guess.

At the risk of repeating myself, there's no shortage of places around W/B where you can have a total solitary backcountry experience where you can break trail all day (or all season) and never see another set of tracks. It also means that I can have year round employment and benefits. I can raise a family and not worry about where my paycheck is coming from between April and December.

To each his own I suppose. The Spearhead is hardly pristine backcountry, and neither is the Squamish's Chief. The Chief has a well worn trail to the top, and a parking lot at the bottom where a non stop line of tour buses disgorge tourists all summer long. 99% of them (and most locals I would imagine) never venture far from the established trails. True backcountry is only a short walk away from the crowds. This gondola opens up another small piece of terrain, and leaves untold millions of easy access backcountry acres a stone's throw away.

With respect to the Spearhead Huts, they are far from a done deal. It's been discussed for a decade and still seems less than a sure thing. At any rate, if there is 1 clear day, there is a superhighway skin track around the Spearhead by noon. A few huts would serve to open up more lines and expose more people to relatively easy access backcountry, and keep our little economic engine turning.

People who need to be by themselves can just go one more ridge over, or for that matter go to any of dozens of Peaks around the Spearhead that get little to no traffic, even though they are clearly visible and easily accessible from the main touring lines.

I know I'm not going to change anyones mind on this. Despite all the hype around Whistler, its really no different from Squaw, Jackson, Vail, LCC, or other big tourist ski areas. You take the good with the bad. You either get a small quaint resort where most locals earn shit money and have minimal infrastructure, or you get a mega resort where you can make a bit more cash, have high speed quads, and trade it off for a few million people skiing the groomed runs.

I'm generalizing of course, but that's kind of how I see it.

[Clownshoe]

to respond to my own post:

Too long. Didn't read.

[Hugh Conway]

eh? my question was how do these shitty offerings fit into that ecosystem - Whistler's a shitshow filled with Aussie/Brit/Canadian/American trash to me, I'm under no impression it's pristine. Neither is the BC - didn't realize it was noon for a Spearhead skintrack now, but I guess that's "progression". That a dipshit like me can do it <9hrs is part of my hut bewilderment. It's nice, but it's too short for a "real BC traverse" now. So what's the point?

I guess the answer is "new shit to publish in media that few people give a shit about"

[jamesp]

BC Parks put really strict limits on the hut size.

Is the size just a precedence issue? Or maybe there is some science behind the limits.
I can't think of any other backcountry huts in western Canada (eg: ACC huts) with a capacity greater than 30, most are 10-15pax. Maybe some of the private lodges (heli ski, touring places etc) are bigger but those aren't in provincial or national parks.

[raisingarizona13]

No gloves is the new no elbow pads

Or skiing without using your pole straps.

[Jaffa]

The marketing spin for the huts is likely going to go somewhere along the lines of "Why fly all the way to Yurp for multi day hut-to-hut alpine touring when you can do the same thing in Whistler?"

The people it's going to attract are the ones who don't give a damn about the difference between the Haute Route and The Spearhead. They are out there and I don't doubt that once it's built, they will come.

[Clownshoe]

It fits in because its a drop in the bucket compared to what's already here.

Yes, that's it. Let the hate flow through you (Evil Jedi voice)

[LeeLau]

Is the size just a precedence issue? Or maybe there is some science behind the limits.
I can't think of any other backcountry huts in western Canada (eg: ACC huts) with a capacity greater than 30, most are 10-15pax. Maybe some of the private lodges (heli ski, touring places etc) are bigger but those aren't in provincial or national parks.

It's a mental roadblock for Parks. Like you said there's a certain size they seem to be able to wrap their head around and no amount of reasoning will talk them into, say a 100 person hut.

eh? my question was how do these shitty offerings fit into that ecosystem - Whistler's a shitshow filled with Aussie/Brit/Canadian/American trash to me, I'm under no impression it's pristine. Neither is the BC - didn't realize it was noon for a Spearhead skintrack now, but I guess that's "progression". That a dipshit like me can do it <9hrs is part of my hut bewilderment. It's nice, but it's too short for a "real BC traverse" now. So what's the point?

I guess the answer is "new shit to publish in media that few people give a shit about"

Partially. Lots of people are just getting into backcountry now and they are slooooow. The huts will IMO cater to two main groups of people. The first will be the somewhat experienced who can do one day Spearheads. For those people you'll be able to haul gear to a hut; drop your overnight stuff then do a day trip around the hut. So it will open up more terrain. But that's no different than what people do at say the already existing Russet hut.

Then there are those who are noobs, unfit or just slow. For them they'll make the traverse possible with some comfort.

[skiingnow]

Personally I can't wait until they run a groomer around the whole spearhead so I can skate ski it!

[t.odd]

Obviously, that was tongue in cheek. In all seriousness Hugh, as I said before, this is not a quaint small mountain community. It's a multi billion dollar ski mega resort. By extension, so is the rest of the valley.

It is what it is. It's Vegas on skis. If you like it, here it is. If not, there's many other small town ski areas around where you can earn minimum wage and ride fixed grip chairlifts. With the exception of people who've been here since the 70's, it's kind of silly for people to bemoan the loss of our small town innocence.

It's a major economic driver for the whole province, and it supports a great community of normal people who benefit from tourists coming here and emptying their wallets. The Peak to Peak Gondola, (which i originally thought was a colossal waste of money) has turned out to be a huge draw, and has driven a shitload more business to our town. In retrospect, it was probably a really good investment.

I live in a condo in a normal neighborhood and live a normal life, as does 99% of the people here. If I want to pretend I'm a rockstar or a high roller, I can go to the village and be a bar star. I can take in the tourist junk show or I can ignore it completely. I can just chill with my friends and family and ski everyday. I can stand in line for Spanky's or the Peak Chair, or I can tour somewhere and ski fresh lines all day. It's what you make of it I guess.

At the risk of repeating myself, there's no shortage of places around W/B where you can have a total solitary backcountry experience where you can break trail all day (or all season) and never see another set of tracks. It also means that I can have year round employment and benefits. I can raise a family and not worry about where my paycheck is coming from between April and December.

To each his own I suppose. The Spearhead is hardly pristine backcountry, and neither is the Squamish's Chief. The Chief has a well worn trail to the top, and a parking lot at the bottom where a non stop line of tour buses disgorge tourists all summer long. 99% of them (and most locals I would imagine) never venture far from the established trails. True backcountry is only a short walk away from the crowds. This gondola opens up another small piece of terrain, and leaves untold millions of easy access backcountry acres a stone's throw away.

With respect to the Spearhead Huts, they are far from a done deal. It's been discussed for a decade and still seems less than a sure thing. At any rate, if there is 1 clear day, there is a superhighway skin track around the Spearhead by noon. A few huts would serve to open up more lines and expose more people to relatively easy access backcountry, and keep our little economic engine turning.

People who need to be by themselves can just go one more ridge over, or for that matter go to any of dozens of Peaks around the Spearhead that get little to no traffic, even though they are clearly visible and easily accessible from the main touring lines.

I know I'm not going to change anyones mind on this. Despite all the hype around Whistler, its really no different from Squaw, Jackson, Vail, LCC, or other big tourist ski areas. You take the good with the bad. You either get a small quaint resort where most locals earn shit money and have minimal infrastructure, or you get a mega resort where you can make a bit more cash, have high speed quads, and trade it off for a few million people skiing the groomed runs.

I'm generalizing of course, but that's kind of how I see it.

thanks for taking the time to put it much more eloquently that I probably would've, buddy. That, and, well I think there's a lot other things in our province to be actually outraged about rather than a couple of things which will do lots to add to our recreational opportunities and help provide more people more steady work. It's amazing to have witnessed the change in a town that when I moved here had very defined shoulder seasons, where it went from busy to dead overnight...and now there's people here visiting literally year round. Tourism feeds me.

[xyz]

Tourism feeds me.

For now, at least. But if we head down the scary road of building out into our parks we will reach the tipping point to a played out, over developed shit show. And i know it already is, but that's no excuse to make it incrementally worse year after year.

[nickel]

For now, at least. But if we head down the scary road of building out into our parks we will reach the tipping point to a played out, over developed shit show. And i know it already is, but that's no excuse to make it incrementally worse year after year.

Oh god won't someone please think of the children!

[t.odd]

For now, at least. But if we head down the scary road of building out into our parks we will reach the tipping point to a played out, over developed shit show. And i know it already is, but that's no excuse to make it incrementally worse year after year.

so dramatic! personally I think you're being over dramatic on this issue, you of course are entitled to your opinion...I don't think there will be a negative impact by having a gondola line cutting through a heavily used provincial park which will likely defacto protect an area beyond the park boundaries from industrial clear cut logging and provide recreational opportunities to a wide range of users, in an area that's already been heavily impacted by said industrial activities. On the Spearhead, I'm not against it, but I'm not also necessarily for the full proposal. Again, I just don't think these are the issues to be angry about in our world right now.

[xyz]

l. Again, I just don't think these are the issues to be angry about in our world right now.

For sure. This is a first world problem of the highest order. There are much bigger issues out there, such as 1x10 drivetrains. ;-)

Bottom line and to conclude my rant, this isn't just about the Gondola and the huts its greater issue of developing in our parks for the sake of profit. i personally think, as mentioned they should be off limits.

[shirk]

xyz will really go off the deep end when he learns about Jayon's plan for a gondola to the top of Joffre. The second one will go into Steep Creek.

[skiingnow]

xyz will really go off the deep end when he learns about Jayon's plan for a gondola to the top of Joffre. The second one will go into Steep Creek.

not to mention the duffy zip lines!

[LeeLau]

I hear Jayson Faulkner eats babies

[Shaggy]

not to mention the duffy zip lines!

There actually is/was a proposed ski resort for the Cayoosh Range...

The Spearhead huts have been part of Garibaldi's master plan since 1990. An entire public consultation process back then as well as just last year ensured that the park was being used as the people of this province wished. (Except for heli-skiing of course ) . While I support the huts, I have my reservations about how they will be managed since I don't think they should be allowed to turn into booked-a-year-in-advance-guided-groups-only shit shows.

That said, actions that are entirely ad-hoc and really only serve one specific commercial interest are a whole other matter The S2S Gondola is one of those. Shannon Falls PP was created to preserve the area around the falls from (amongst other things), unsightly development. Trading land for land is bullshit when the original intent is being undermined. There was nothing in that park's management plan that allowed for "future development of ugly fucking Gondola". Will it boost tourisim? Sure. Will it generate a few piss-ant minimum-wage lifty and burger flipper jobs? Of course. Does it continue to set precedent that our parks are up for grabs? You bet. [note WB's past annexations of Garibaldi]

If we're going to allow ad-hoc incremental development incursions (whether they be Gondolas, Huts crammed with commercial guided groups, heli-ski, or CRA expansions [note planned 6-pack up Flute]) then what is the point in having a park any ways?

[rideit]

This is a bit of thread drift, but I'll bury it here.
The Snow King (Jackson, Wy) master plan (10 years or so)calls for a gondola to essentially just bring tourists to the top, in order to have a good restaurant, event center, zip lines, some beginner terrain, mini golf, and who knows what all else up top.
Sure, it will be used for skiers, but hats really secondary to summer activities, basically giving tourists new ways to part with their money, and get some great views.
I see nothing wrong with it, but it is totally different than this Squamish thing.
Thoughts?
Would you kill an afternoon going up it to look around if you were in town, and it was, like $8 or so?

[kevin267]

There's a gondi just like this in Juneau right where the cruiseships stop, wonder if it pissed everyone off up there too

[xyz]

Shaggy. Thanks,you put that together much better than I did.

Park land is for the benefit of all not just Jayson Faulkner and his evil empire. The dude is a capitalist pig cloaked in goretex. I would love to know what other crackpot scams he's planning.

[skiingnow]

xyz, do you have some actual facts on how much BC Parks land is being impacted by the S2S Gondola or is this just fear mongering uninformed ranting? If so you should go to Clubtread where the other paranoid enviro freaks hang out.

Just wondering.

[jamesp]

Would you kill an afternoon going up it to look around if you were in town, and it was, like $8 or so?

Personally I wouldn't... but this Squamish gondola will be a cash cow. Compare to the Banff gondola, which goes up to a viewpoint (Sulphur Mountain) with a shitty gift store. Nothing to do at the top except look at the view. There are 2 different hiking trails to the same point, yet they charge $35 & its packed all the time.