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Thread: An alternative to race team?
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09-19-2013, 04:57 PM #26Chowder Lover
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I signed my daughter up for the Bomber program this year. The BAM program sounded really cool but I think she needs some more time on the basics. I’d love to get her into a race program at some point, not only to teach her to ski way better than I’ll ever be but for the other values they teach as well. Everything from sportsmanship to nutrition to a lifestyle of fitness as many focus on “dry land” training almost as much as actually skiing and even building lifelong friendships. If you can incorporate these things into your program it’d be a pretty awesome gig. The big benefit I see with this is you’re not tied to skiing gates on a groomer and turning where they tell you to turn. Don’t get me wrong, I think that’s a big piece of ski training but it misses a whole lot of what skiing is really about. Learning how to race over variable terrain with unexpected obstacles and changing snow conditions and using the natural terrain features as a playground is something you don’t get from a race team. That and race teams are crazy expensive and consume massive amounts of time; take a family like us that lives a couple of hours form the race teams training grounds and it’s a tough pill to swallow.
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09-19-2013, 05:02 PM #27
I'm an ex FIS racer and coach and have coached for RMF www.skirmf.com for the past seven years and started their Young Guns pogram. I also helped remodel the Freeride ream/s in Golden BC at Kicking Horse.
I'd be more then happy to chat with you about Freeride coaching and teams.Flying the Bluehouse colors in Western Canada! Let me know if you want some rad skis!!
"He is god of snow; the one called Ullr. Son of Sif, step son of Thor. He is so fierce a bowman and ski-runner that none may contend! He is quite beautiful to look upon and has all the characteristics of a warrior. It is wise to invoke the name of Ullr in duels!"
-The Gylfaginning
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09-20-2013, 04:26 AM #28
ty
Aw, this is just Breck. But raceteam is a big deal over there.
Very zen, I like it. My kids are really young so I'll need to adapt the ideas.
Yes, there are def elements of freeride. I think this program hopes to have a broader scope.
Loved the vids, smiled all the way through. I guess I'll be shooting some video, need to start thinking about that too, although editing video is not my idea of a fun time and I have no skills whatsoever at that.
I think we're exactly on the same page here. And Bombers is so great! I love Bombers. One of my trainers at Breck (Jen Losch) taught Bombers so long that the kids grew up and taught Bombers.
And I hear you on the overhead and discomfort for race team. Like I said, I've got kids I've taught that are on raceteam now so I've had an earful of it. I've also stood on the hill to help with events. Not my idea of a good time. I hope we can address some of those concerns with BAM - I personally am in communication with all my kids parents and we'll work together to see how we want to handle things. As far as lifestyle/crosstraining etc, I communicate my preference for getting the kids in fall soccer to get their legs/lungs ready and I have strict rules about high protein/nothing sugary at lunchtime, although I cave for them at other times of the day. I actually bring donut holes and pigs-in-blankets from Daylight every morning to eat on the gondola ride up - second breakfast. I feed them like little birds in the nest and call them my donut holes when we're skiing on the hill, gaw they love it.
Anyway I hope you'll keep an eye out for how BAM develops as your own girl does. Maybe it will be the right choice next year or the year after. I know it's a long and expensive commitment, but still a fraction of race team.
Oh thank you!!!! I will pm with some private matters, but I wrote out a list of questions that everyone can see. I have my own opinions of course, cause it's not my first rodeo, but I can def learn from your experience. Even if you don't have direct experience, would appreciate your opinions. Would love to hear from anybody else on these things too.
1) What are the kids' favorite things to do?
2) What do they hate? And do you do it anyway?
3) How much time do you spend hiking for turns or features in the park?
4) Opinions on chinese downhill (in every kind of terrain)?
5) Do you track results or shoot/edit video or anything else that takes away from ski time or takes a lot of work off the hill?
6) How much time do you spend on catching kids up? Or do you focus most on the rockstars?
7) Do you teach edge biased turning more, or flat ski (rotary?)
8) Do you run tail in powder? How do you deal with kids that fell over in powder?
9) How do you deal with overcoming fear, of jumping/steeps/etc.
10) How do you encourage kids to make the effort/practice to learn a park feature/progression?
11) How do you teach line selection for big mountain?
12) Do you do an awards ceremony/dinner with just your team?
13) Best drills ever
14) Best games on the hill
15) Do you have rankings within your own team? And how do you handle that? Is there a general atmosphere of comraderie or competition between the kids. Do you encourage competion during your regular ski/practice days?
16) How do you divide up your day in terms of drill time and ski time (using skills that you learned in drils?)Last edited by SheRa; 09-20-2013 at 04:36 AM.
Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
Henry David Thoreau
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09-20-2013, 04:50 AM #29
Hey what happened to bendtheski's post? I was gonna say that I was just kidding about racers being the best skiers on the mountain, it's really the bumpers!
As far as GNAR, I've messed around with it for sure. And I already hand out points for the laffs and motivation, but now I guess I have to formalize that a bit. And I love shane and I love my spatulas! But. In my mind there's an unfortunate culture in ski school and psia where instructors walk around mouthing off like they are god's gift to skiing. Seriously nobody cares. I like the skiing and teaching to speak for themselves, a little modesty goes a long way. And I feel an obligation to grow these kids up properly. I admit that I've sent my kids over to other instructors to tell them they are the best skier on the mountain and pole whacking is always a good time.Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
Henry David Thoreau
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09-20-2013, 05:32 AM #30Banned
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FORCED TURNS. moguls/gates in the shittiest conditions you can find. good snow doesn't make good skiers.
as far as the whole comp thing goes. uh............it'll only up anyones game.
hi SheRa
rog
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09-20-2013, 06:28 AM #31
Deleted it because I didn't think it really added much to the discussion. Thanks for proving me wrong. I really need to stop overthinking things.
Seems like a lot of folks posting who have actual experience with kids programs, who are probably a lot more qualified to comment. I think you're on the right track in keeping it fun, and trying to produce well rounded skiers. Modesty from an instructor is also a refreshing approach. I'm sure your skills speak for themselves, without beating the kids over the head. I think I've mentioned before, one of the things that helped me most to improve was taking visual cues from skiers better than me. Also, seeing myself ski on video. Video can be a great tool for improvement; it's not always kind, but it never lies.
The instructor call-out; priceless!
Best of luck with the program and kiddos.
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09-20-2013, 08:29 AM #32Banned
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video is one of the best ways to improve. you could make a season long video of your team in progess. pow days, bumps, gates, etc. then multiple teams could show their vids at a season ending bash with fun awards.
rog
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09-20-2013, 08:44 AM #33trenchman
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09-21-2013, 05:35 AM #34
Concur. I'm trying to learn two new sports, surfing and olympic weightlifting (yes really). Both are super technical and make me realize more and more how much I need to watch and see. I take a lot for granted now in my skiing so it helps to really suck at something new.
I'll try out a video coaching app called Coach's Eye and see how that goes: https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...oachseye&hl=en
hi rogLive each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
Henry David Thoreau
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09-21-2013, 10:38 AM #35trenchman
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what is 'olympic weightlifting'?
serious
b.
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09-21-2013, 12:17 PM #36Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
Henry David Thoreau
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09-21-2013, 09:47 PM #37Chowder Lover
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See, I think that's a big difference between what a race program and a ski school will get you. If I was putting a ton of money into a program to really benefit my daughter I'd expect more than Doughnut holes. There's much better options that will get the same excited result without the sugar rush/crash that comes with junk food. I don't want to tell you how to run your program but being your target audience I think I should tell you that immature tactics like that will severely limit your ability to take a chunk of the race program market.
Take the opportunity to teach these kids how to make the right decisions in life. My 2 cents.
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09-22-2013, 02:10 AM #38
Oh man, you are right. I feel bad. The thing is that I don't eat like that myself. Very rarely touch sugar, I eat strictly paleo + dairy. I know better.
I emailed the parents about changing the practice, but they were all so enthusiastic to keep it up.
These kids are like little crackheads about the sugar, seriously. The parents pack their lunches and I have to tear all the sweets out of their paws and take them off the table - I give them back a couple of hours later, so at least they will eat one meal that's not pure sugar.
In truth the whole food situation is so awful for all the kids I see. They are all running on blood sugar, whether from fruit-like fake drinks, snacks and deserts to bread and pasta and all those carbs that spike blood sugar the same way. Maybe they are getting decent meals at home? But everybody thinks lowfat is so awesome now, and that leaves sugar/carbs to fill the void.
What should I do? They all wake up by 5am and don't eat enough. They really benefit from food on the gondola. And if you don't feed a sugar burner, they crash every 2 hours. I eat 2 meals a day, no snacks. I run on the fat of the land.
What should I bring instead? Bananas or other fruit? I wonder if they'll go for it. Some protein source would be better. Haha, should I bring bacon? That's what I eat on the run.Last edited by SheRa; 09-22-2013 at 02:41 AM.
Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
Henry David Thoreau
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09-22-2013, 09:00 AM #39Chowder Lover
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I guess I didn't think about how parents are setting you up to fail on this. That is a tough position. I'm not a nutritionist but here's what I'd probably do.
Start with parents. Educate them on food and what thier kids need to not only get the most out of skiing but to live a healthy life. You then need to find out what the kids will respond to. Some love jerky, others a good nut mix with some dried fruit to naturally sweeten it up. My daughter loves the kids clif bars. Poke around some of the natural groceries, there's fruit snacks that are made out of pure fruit juice without additional sweeteners. Not ideal but a whole lot better than high fructose corn syrup and food coloring. If the parents can't figure it out set it up to where you supply all snacks and they just pitch in a few bucks per day to cover the expense.
On carbs, don't shy away from whole grains. Make sure parents know the difference between a PB&J made with white bread, high fructose corn syrup jam that contains no actual fruit and heavily sweetened peanut butter and one made with a 100% whole grain bread, jam that's just jam and peanut butter that's just peanuts.
Most importantly make sure the parents understand the importance of a good breakfast to start the day. If the kids start out on crap the only way to get through the day will be to contribute pumping them with crap.
And if else fails, save all the sugar for the end of the day and stuff them with it just before returning them to mom and dad.
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09-22-2013, 01:28 PM #40
And if else fails, save all the sugar for the end of the day and stuff them with it just before returning them to mom and dad.[/QUOTE]
pricless
tell the parents this is what you intend to do with all the sugar snacks and they'll think twice.embrace the gape
and believe
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09-22-2013, 06:58 PM #41Chowder Lover
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Would Breck be willing to get a children's nutritionist to consult on the issue? Maybe write up something that can be published for the parents? A "food bible" that the team lives by.
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09-22-2013, 07:01 PM #42
I'm developing a plan. Thanks for lighting a fire.
Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
Henry David Thoreau
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09-24-2013, 05:32 PM #43
My son was on the Alpine Meadows Freeride team for years. He never liked racing and gravitated to big mtn stuff. He loved it, and it made him a better, safer sidecountry/backcountry skier. He's now at CU in Boulder and I'm sure he'd be willing to chat with you if you want to pick his brain about what he liked / didn't like about the whole experience (mostly he loved it). It eventually turned him into a ski instructor for little kids and definitely sparked a passion that continues to this day.
He may even be interested in helping coach at some point. He's not a daredevil - but he's very smart and a great teacher. PM me if you want me to put you in touch.**
I'm a cougar, not a MILF! I have to protect my rep! - bklyn
In any case, if you're ever really in this situation make sure you at least bargain in a couple of fluffers.
-snowsprite
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09-24-2013, 11:57 PM #44
I disagree, and I can find the competitive bump skiers to prove it. But I know this argument has been had here before, no need to re-hash it.
Hell Yes!
As the parent of a first grader, I empathize with your problem, but this^^^ sounds like a GREAT idea, then you can give your bible (preferably in a 1-2 page format) to the parents and hopefully reap the benefits with your kids this season.
I have no other experience or dog in the fight, other than the parent of a kid that is currently STOKED for the season to start. I know that my dollars won't be going to a competitive team anytime soon, since she isn't ready or wanting to do that yet, but having another option to attempt and capture those kids and dollars that is more mid-range is certainly attractive. Good luck, can't wait to hear about the results!
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09-25-2013, 09:33 AM #45Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
Henry David Thoreau
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09-25-2013, 09:51 AM #46
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09-25-2013, 09:53 AM #47Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
Henry David Thoreau
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09-25-2013, 01:45 PM #48Registered User
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Reading the Breck web blurb about the BAM it sounds about in the middle of a continuum between the Bombers and a pure race team. Both the kids and the parents might have pretty different ideas of how much emphasis should be put on competition. So I really like the idea above about incorporating the goals of the participants into your approach for the season.
Competition can bring out the best in people, but not always, nor is it always the best way.
I am not a parent nor have I coached so take this with a grain of salt. I did play in our local mountain's youth programs that had some racing but that was not the emphasis. I've been a lifelong skier with varying degree of stoke form year to year and firmly believe Alex Lowe's notion (paraphrase) 'the best skier is the one having the most fun.'
I see that the coach from Holderness is here -- my high school team (Proctor) used to compete against your team.
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09-26-2013, 10:37 AM #49
Actually, the last PSIA conference I went to had a session by the freeride team coach from Alta that would have been pretty much what you are looking for. Some of the PSIA folks harrumphed, but I rather liked it. I wouldn't bother with the psuedo-NASTAR course at Breck, it compares to only about a J6 level training run, and a short one at that. See if you can use the training courses the race teams set up, or set your own. Except, of course for the timing aspect, which you won't get from a standard practice course. Thing about running it as duals, they compete against each other instead of the clock.
One of the freeride skill sets you can work on is gates on freeride terrain; teach them how to pick a line by setting gates on it.
Don't forget the fundamentals - good skiing is good skiing, whether in a race course or in a chute.
PS - I'll be doing adult session part time out of the village this year. I'll try and introduce myself sometime, finally.Living vicariously through myself.
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09-26-2013, 11:43 AM #50
That's great. You'll be in my locker room. It's awesome because we have tables and a kitchen, with coffee. If you can get on the third row or further back, dooo it. Do not, under any circumstances, get on the second row. Srsly.
Can't even think if there are any other maggots in there...Live each season as it passes; breathe the air, drink the drink, taste the fruit, and resign yourself to the influences of each.
Henry David Thoreau
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