Results 26 to 50 of 67
-
09-10-2013, 02:26 PM #26
I thought the various DPSs were spooned tail and tail. If that's not the case, I too am curious as to why. Would love to see a discussion between Stephan/Marshal/SiSt/Geo and any other design-savvy people out there.
I know from what I ride, that you can go a long way with the right tail rocker, taper and flex, but convex tails intrigue me. FWIW, my 1985 homebuilt swallowtail snowboards had convex (tri-plane) tails (and bindings made out of a thick bucket ), and man did it work in powder.
-
09-10-2013, 02:48 PM #27
Island bay: I think you could spoon both the tip and tail on anything with tip and tail taper without ill effects, but I'm not sure if I'd want to unless we are talking about something very, very pow specific. There are some complexities involved which limits your flex pattern choices if you spoon something, namely that whatever you spoon becomes very stiff, or at least stiffer than it would otherwise be. It's pretty hard to bend something that's 3d.
I also have a hard time visualizing the benefits.simen@downskis.com DOWN SKIS
-
09-10-2013, 03:30 PM #28fighting gravity on a daily basis
WhiteRoom Skis
Handcrafted in Northern Vermont
www.whiteroomcustomskis.com
-
09-10-2013, 04:31 PM #29
caveat: i am sales manager @ DPS - take as many grains of salt as you so wish. my truthful opinions, but since i write sales messaging for DPS, my opinion and DPS cannot be separated.
anywho, the point of spooning the tip of the lotus 120 specifically is to get a cleaner lateral pivot while the tip is weighted, in 3d snow. this they do, as i have spooned and non-spooned versions sitting in my garage that i have skied back to back countless times. the skis are the same on firm snow, just a nicely subtle addition to the ski's versatility and responsiveness in soft snow. Lotus120 spoon is about making the tip more responsive/less drag across the fall line without making it sketchy on firm snow by adding a deeper rocker line. i feel all the reviews i have read on the l120 agree anyhow.
the spoon 148 itself is way more dramatic (2x deeper into the ski, and 3x the depth and height of the spooning). the tip obviously has great lateral pivot in pow, but beyond that, the goal for the spoon is for making crazy high speed nose-press drift turns in big open alpine lines. hard to describe. think of unweighting/ollying with speed, land off-edge on the forebody, and drift down the fall line without shedding speed. at any point, you can set the tail, accelerate across the fall line and rip out like a normal free ride ski. tail spoon does not interest me. i don't want tail-wash (aka slarve aka uncontrolled pivot). i want to set the rail and carve powerfully out of a turn. its worth noting that this thing makes no attempt to be a ski for everyone, or really anyone. its a ski for us, chasing a specific sensation - controlled drift, not loose pivot.
for what its worth, my personal quiver this season is:
hybrid 112 RPC 192 w/ alpine bindings
L120 spoon 189 w/ speed radicals
spoon 148 190 w/ alpine bindings
realistically, everyday the base is wind buffed smooth, and there is more than a few fresh inches, i will be on spoon 148's. when they are worth skiing, its crazy hi-endorphin video game action. mind left body.
sist - of course the flex pattern needs to be adjusted w/ 3d shapes - but that is quite simple. just build a pair with normal laminates, check the flex and see the % variation from designed, and update core/laminate to scale it back to where you want it. also the first test skis from that initial video are radically different than where the design for the skis wound up.
caveat #2 - getting pretty stoked for skiing over here. that, obviously, came out in this post. reliving some great runs and days from last season on these things. genuine stoke from this guy.Last edited by marshalolson; 09-10-2013 at 04:49 PM.
-
09-10-2013, 04:43 PM #30Registered Undead
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- PNW
- Posts
- 3,128
-
09-10-2013, 04:44 PM #31Registered User
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Location
- Idaho
- Posts
- 449
-
09-10-2013, 04:53 PM #32
Good stuff, Marshal.
I get your point about the endless nose side drift. Does spoon in the tail make them too "washy", or can it be used subtly? Sadly, I'm unlikely to try any of these skis anytime soon (NZ is a long way away - in so many ways).
This is turning into an interesting thread.
-
09-10-2013, 04:54 PM #33
ha yeah, i don't know about endless, but long and exaggerated anyhow!
-
09-10-2013, 06:49 PM #34Registered Undead
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Location
- PNW
- Posts
- 3,128
Upon reflection, based on what I have heard and seen, I'm kind of of wondering if DPS is going for something like a waveski or surf shoe effect. And Garywayne and some others are messing about more in the squirt boat or play boat zone...
Now I just need to play with more.
-
09-10-2013, 07:01 PM #35Sometimes pride comes after a fall.
-
09-10-2013, 07:48 PM #36
DPS should get together with Tom from Austria and brainstorm.
-
09-10-2013, 09:06 PM #37
^^^ the Spooned 120 is no joke.
In search of the elusive artic powder weasel ...
-
09-11-2013, 06:25 AM #38
-
09-11-2013, 07:55 AM #39
anyone skied the Hoji and the lotus 120 pure3 ?
love how the hoji handles, with its ability to go on/off the edge so easily. Also love the lack of sidecut to it (and I guess how rocker matches sidecut)
-
09-11-2013, 08:57 AM #40
I've ski'd the l120 spoon a few days and owned the hoji last year. i really like how the hoji initiates a turn as well, that's a really fun shape. if you need/want to ski fast the 120 is on another level. i thought the hoji floated really well for its size- obviously not as well as the 120. id have to get on a non-proto or non-spooned to know if i could ski it every day like a hoji, but with 3"+ the 120 would be my ideal weapon bar none.
-
09-11-2013, 09:09 AM #41
Well that does it. I think I'll be on the 120 as my pow slayer for this year.
Sounds fun.www.dpsskis.com
www.point6.com
formerly an ambassador for a few others, but the ski industry is... interesting.
Fukt: a very small amount of snow.
-
09-11-2013, 01:57 PM #42
Yeah, I dunno, I guess so.
I do know someone left a big ass C clamp in the press last year and it pressed a big cleat in the ski, like the first gen spoon 150 UHMW sidewall. It was all lammed up pretty solid. Surprising cause the giant AL cattrack. Dented 4 layers of 18ga AL sheet also and bent the ski into a radical shape in that area.
-
09-12-2013, 05:17 AM #43
so you're saying you are kinda nose-pressing sideways through turns? it seems that you are talking about a very very brief moment in any traditional skier's normal powder turn where the tips aren't catching the snow and flexing the rocker area as the turn is initiated.
So I guess my question is, the true benefit is allowing for a little delay into where the turn is actually placed?bumps are for poor people
-
09-12-2013, 05:44 AM #44
Without having actually skied the spoon L120, and being an nothing more than an ex-snowboarder.... ^ that makes sense to me.
But in my imagination, the appeal of the spooned forebody of the ski is in grabby variable snow. The ultimate de-tune with potentially no hooking in the wind funk?Life is not lift served.
-
09-12-2013, 06:37 AM #45simen@downskis.com DOWN SKIS
-
09-12-2013, 08:22 AM #46
-
09-12-2013, 09:43 AM #47
yeah man, i don't think about it as a benefit. its not like we are all skiing on the clock and incremental improvements are realized in some structured way. its just a different sensation, really.
that sensation manifests as being able to spend more time going down the fall line with more control and response (cleaner lateral pivot = less locked into a straight-line but skiing at that speed), and coming across the fall line in deep snow without shedding all your speed (the nose-press turn idea).
so going back to the benefit idea, my experience with the spoon skis, is that you can ski faster with more control. the good/bad of that is you shed vert like crazy, so a 10 turn slope becomes a 3 turn slope really quickly. i know pfluffen can agree with me there. they can gobble up vert like crazy.
don't worry though, you don't have to just take my opinion, there are a ton of reviews coming this winter.
aside: i'd love to trade iggy some spoons for some pillow fights at some point. interested to try his version with tail spooning. from our testing, there was no point, as we wanted a powerful and engaged tail in all conditions. but i can see in a different application/ski shape, tail spoonage replacing tail rocker to keep a ski loose but track straight well.
-
09-12-2013, 10:03 AM #48
I would buy the Spoon 120 in a heartbeat if you guys would just make the tip rocker lower and longer like the EHP... and make the mount point more central/new-school-freeride-big-mountain like the EHP...and made it flex like the EHP.
Could you guys make a spoon EHP please?
Thanks.
Although the EHP is so pivoty/slashy/McConkey turny without the spoon already, maybe I'll just stick with those.
So, in short, and to summarize in a slightly more clear fashion, I have nothing of value to contribute to this thread.
Carry on.
-
09-12-2013, 11:32 AM #49
-
09-12-2013, 12:09 PM #50
I haven't skied the spooned 120's but what Marshall describes is also true of the older models to, I'm guessing, a lesser extent. If you ski forward on Lotus 120's they act a little bit like reverse-reverse skis, because of the long rocker, pin tail and long nose. In fact if you cut off a Lotus 120 right in front of your toes, you would have a nice little reverse-reverse snow blade. When you find the right balance point, they'll smear. I can imagine how this would be further exaggerated by the spooning. On the other hand, if you drive through your heels, you still have a traditional tail that you can use to bounce through quick turns the old fashioned way. Can't wait to try a pair.
Bookmarks