Praxis Protest..just how cool is it?

**skibrd** · 02-11-2020, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by theetruscan

My 192 veneer/enduro/carbon 4 flex are mounted 1 or 2 back. i just traded away my C&Ds. protests just make me happier. c&ds definitely have a bit more float though.

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I grabbed that pair of BNIP Shane memorial 189 Pon2oons off eBay over the summer for $175 and enjoy those more. More float, more fun on steeps, mellow trees, pillows, open spaces and tight spots. They are what I thought the Protests would be. I wish I had taken them to Japan last year instead of my Protests.

Maybe, if they don’t sell, I’ll remount them 2cm back and try again, but as of right now I’d rather get them into someone else’s hands to enjoy.

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**2FUNKY** · 02-11-2020, 07:14 PM

Skibird, some peeps jive right away with the Protest, some it takes a while, some never do. Don’t worry about it and move on. Too many kickass skis out there today to try to make a ski work. With that said, I would mount them back -2cm and give them a go. Sounds like you like to ski fast and Protests absolutely reward that.
Protest float crazy well but they get their float closer to the boot than other skis and need speed to come up.
As far as the flex goes, as big as you are I think the 4 flex is perfect, I run the 4 flex on my 192’s, not as big as you and just dig it. The shape of the Protest lends itself to a stiffer flex. That said, my 3 flex 188’s are a ton of fun, more playful with some business.

**skibrd** · 02-11-2020, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Skibird, some peeps jive right away with the Protest, some it takes a while, some never do. Don’t worry about it and move on. Too many kickass skis out there today to try to make a ski work. With that said, I would mount them back -2cm and give them a go. Sounds like you like to ski fast and Protests absolutely reward that.
Protest float crazy well but they get their float closer to the boot than other skis and need speed to come up.
As far as the flex goes, as big as you are I think the 4 flex is perfect, I run the 4 flex on my 192’s, not as big as you and just dig it. The shape of the Protest lends itself to a stiffer flex. That said, my 3 flex 188’s are a ton of fun, more playful with some business.

I think you are right. I’ll redo the FS thread with a few other skis next week. Need to get some more time on two pairs before I make a decision. I’d like to get to 2 big mountain skis (115-120mm) and one Uber fat (120+). The Pon2oons has replaced the Protests, and I need to get the 193 BMX 115 out a few more days, as well as on the 196 Bodacious before I make a decision.

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**nickbokhoven** · 02-11-2020, 09:56 PM

Adding some experience to this thread. My first pair of Protests were Adrenalated’s old 187 nylon top sheets and he said they were 3.75 flex as he had them out of a custom build. Those skis were money on the line. Tips were always up. Awesome for. Cat skiing. I had demo bindings on them and didn’t like them at -1 cm . Last year I picked up a pair of 192 #4’s. I mounted them in the line, this time with sth2 bindings. I like the length and have no problems throwing them around in tight Kootenay trees but the tips don’t plane like my previous ones. I am guessing it the flex. I hate to drill another set of holes but might just do so to try them back.

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**skibrd** · 02-11-2020, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by nickbokhoven

Adding some experience to this thread. My first pair of Protests were Adrenalated’s old 187 nylon top sheets and he said they were 3.75 flex as he had them out of a custom build. Those skis were money on the line. Tips were always up. Awesome for. Cat skiing. I had demo bindings on them and didn’t like them at -1 cm . Last year I picked up a pair of 192 #4’s. I mounted them in the line, this time with sth2 bindings. I like the length and have no problems throwing them around in tight Kootenay trees but the tips don’t plane like my previous ones. I am guessing it the flex. I hate to drill another set of holes but might just do so to try them back.

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This is one of my many issues. The tips just want to submarine and that’s not acceptable for a 128 wide ski. They have 2 sets of holes already and I’m walking away before putting another set of holes in them. I think the flex with the carbon is just a tad too much for what I’m looking for.

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**grinch** · 02-12-2020, 12:51 AM

Sounds like mine when i was on the dimple. -1.5 and its a whole new ball game

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**SeatownSlackey** · 02-12-2020, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by skibrd

This is one of my many issues. The tips just want to submarine and that’s not acceptable for a 128 wide ski. They have 2 sets of holes already and I’m walking away before putting another set of holes in them. I think the flex with the carbon is just a tad too much for what I’m looking for.

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I’m 6’1 230 flex 4 MAP w/ carbon. Can’t sink em ever but I’m somewhere between 1.5-2 back Def not too stiff to be super surfy for my mass and style.

They are forever skis for me but you def have to ski them more center/BOF.

**nickbokhoven** · 02-12-2020, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by SeatownSlackey

I’m 6’1 230 flex 4 MAP w/ carbon. Can’t sink em ever but I’m somewhere between 1.5-2 back Def not too stiff to be super surfy for my mass and style.

They are forever skis for me but you def have to ski them more center/BOF.

Agree it is a centered stance. So many people prior have liked these behind the line -1 to 2 centimeters, I think I am going to put that next set of holes in. The only reason I hesitate is that I have some 188 Q’s, veneer #4, that I like on the line.

**SUPERIOR** · 02-13-2020, 04:07 AM

At 195# and skiing the 187 protest -1cm, I feel like I need a good boot-deep to knee-deep dump to make this ski worth taking out. Anything past a foot of fresh is damn fun, but I’d size up to 192cm if I could do it over.

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**NorCalNomad** · 02-13-2020, 02:08 PM

Joining in the circle jerk here

**N1CK.** · 02-13-2020, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by SUPERIOR

At 195# and skiing the 187 protest -1cm, I feel like I need a good boot-deep to knee-deep dump to make this ski worth taking out. Anything past a foot of fresh is damn fun, but I’d size up to 192cm if I could do it over.

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Same here, but I'm on a 192 and would size down if I got a do-over.

**skibrd** · 02-13-2020, 02:39 PM

Sounds like N1CK and SUPERIOR need to trade Protests...

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**Foggy_Goggles** · 02-14-2020, 08:12 AM

Anyone can to compare Powderboards to Protests? I just have more fun when I go to the ski area with PBs. Here at Wanker Park it's basically trees, bumps and groomers. Often times howadays it is bumps in the trees...yeah. Charging(tm) is not so much what goes down. The playfullness(tm) of the R/R ski is just what makes me smile.

I have heard that the Protest keeps the butterability(tm) of the PB but is more versitile but I'm not sure I buy it.

**2FUNKY** · 02-14-2020, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Anyone can to compare Powderboards to Protests? I just have more fun when I go to the ski area with PBs. Here at Wanker Park it's basically trees, bumps and groomers. Often times howadays it is bumps in the trees...yeah. Charging(tm) is not so much what goes down. The playfullness(tm) of the R/R ski is just what makes me smile.

I have heard that the Protest keeps the butterability(tm) of the PB but is more versitile but I'm not sure I buy it.

I skied them back to back with spatulas. 95+% as loose but 100% better on groomers and packed snow.

**nickwm21** · 02-14-2020, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by skibrd

This is one of my many issues. The tips just want to submarine and that’s not acceptable for a 128 wide ski. They have 2 sets of holes already and I’m walking away before putting another set of holes in them. I think the flex with the carbon is just a tad too much for what I’m looking for.

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My 1st gen 196s don’t tip dive at all. I’m 200 6-2. I’ll look at where I mounted them, it was a long time ago... I remember Keith changed the mount point between gen1 and gen2.

I’m a huge Protest (and praxis) fan. I’ll never sell my 196s, they are the perfect deep pow ski for me.

I’ve posted this in the praxis thread before: DO NOT MESS WITH FLEX, LAYUP, WIDTH, ROCKER ON YOUR PRAXIS BUILD. Keith’s builds are dialed. I truly believe he is harming his business by offering all the custom options. If you read through negative reviews of praxis skis, it is fairly common that the customer modified the build...

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**skibrd** · 02-14-2020, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by nickwm21

My 1st gen 196s don’t tip dive at all. I’m 200 6-2. I’ll look at where I mounted them, it was a long time ago... I remember Keith changed the mount point between gen1 and gen2.

I’m a huge Protest (and praxis) fan. I’ll never sell my 196s, they are the perfect deep pow ski for me.

I’ve posted this in the praxis thread before: DO NOT MESS WITH FLEX, LAYUP, WIDTH, ROCKER ON YOUR PRAXIS BUILD. Keith’s builds are dialed. I truly believe he is harming his business by offering all the custom options. If you read through negative reviews of praxis skis, it is fairly common that the customer modified the build...

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Thanks for checking on the mount for me.

I do agree that you shouldn’t mess with the build. Keith does a pretty darn good job and his skis usually are correct as they are. Saying that, I will add I’ve tried 3 stock skis (Freerides, Protests, and Qs) and 2 custom skis (+10 Freerides and Protests) and have sold 4 of the 5 pairs. I just don’t seem to mesh with them, and that’s ok. I really liked the Qs when they were my only option for pow on a trip, but when I got home and had options, there were other skis I liked better. The build quality and finish of larger manufacturer skis is just better. The rocker shape of my Qs changed drastically depending on the temp, humidity, and use. I loved them when they were fully rocker after a bunch of use, but didn’t like them when the camber returned.

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**Muggydude** · 02-14-2020, 12:49 PM

I think it depends on the skier and whether they have enough experience with various skis to know what they want. I prefer veneer on all my skis, and I definitely like the heavy/carbon/veneer layup on my Qs considerably more than the stock enduro/nylon top sheet layup

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**GoSlowGoFar** · 02-14-2020, 01:02 PM

I feel Keith would probably speak up if he thought that a certain custom build wouldn't work well, that being said if the customer is insistent then you can only influence the outcome so much...

**theetruscan** · 02-14-2020, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Muggydude

I think it depends on the skier and whether they have enough experience with various skis to know what they want. I prefer veneer on all my skis, and I definitely like the heavy/carbon/veneer layup on my Qs considerably more than the stock enduro/nylon top sheet layup

I've been mulling getting Qs made in Veneer/Carbon/Heavy. Currently have the stock Enduro/Nylon. Can you contrast them?

**Foggy_Goggles** · 02-14-2020, 01:34 PM

The build quality and finish of larger manufacturer skis is just better. The rocker shape of my Qs changed drastically depending on the temp, humidity, and use. I loved them when they were fully rocker after a bunch of use, but didn’t like them when the camber returned.

Do you have a spreadsheet to quantify that, seriously? I don't ski any skis but my own so I can't really compare but I'd say the build quality on my 3 pair is top notch.

I do love my Qs and one ski can't be everything but there are times when I think they could be a fit looser.

**2FUNKY** · 02-14-2020, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by nickwm21

I’ve posted this in the praxis thread before: DO NOT MESS WITH FLEX, LAYUP, WIDTH, ROCKER ON YOUR PRAXIS BUILD. Keith’s builds are dialed. I truly believe he is harming his business by offering all the custom options. If you read through negative reviews of praxis skis, it is fairly common that the customer modified the build...

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

I think it depends on the skier and whether they have enough experience with various skis to know what they want. I prefer veneer on all my skis, and I definitely like the heavy/carbon/veneer layup on my Qs considerably more than the stock enduro/nylon top sheet layup

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Agreed muggy. I’ve owned and skied several stock praxis build skis and had custom protest and custom pm gear 191FATS and they both are exactly what I was going for in each ski. Keith did offer input and talked me out of carbon on the Lhasa. Protests don’t have carbon either as I never planned on them being built with it.

**skibrd** · 02-14-2020, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Do you have a spreadsheet to quantify that, seriously? I don't ski any skis but my own so I can't really compare but I'd say the build quality on my 3 pair is top notch.

I do love my Qs and one ski can't be everything but there are times when I think they could be a fit looser.

Haha no spread sheet for that, lol. Just feel and looking at them.

The Qs are a great ski. If money was endless I’d get a pair of stock core and flex, veneer Q graphic, but CCR (full rocker).

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**nickel** · 02-14-2020, 04:08 PM

Just to add to the custom yay/nay discussion my custom UL/ veneer flex 4+ protests are exactly what I wanted.
My custom yetis are very close in that I do not regret getting them in flex 4 but I regret going enduro instead of UL. K listened to you lot too much about UL being undesirable in shit snow! They ski amazing but the extra weight is noticeable. They're basically as heavy as my protests or just about.

I agree that you need to know what you want in a custom ski and that just wringing it with a "what about this" is not terribly advisable.

**Muggydude** · 02-14-2020, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by theetruscan

I've been mulling getting Qs made in Veneer/Carbon/Heavy. Currently have the stock Enduro/Nylon. Can you contrast them?

Enduro/nylon is light, predictable, but can be thrown around a decent amount and has some chatter.

heavy/carbon/veneer is more energetic but damper and gets deflected less. More point and shoot and smooths things out

**SupreChicken** · 02-15-2020, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by mall walker

anyone find these super squirrely on hard stuff? I have Wootests (so -10mm I believe) and only tour on them, but sometimes I end up on a packed down hiking trail or a road during egress and they are very weird. Maybe I overly detuned them? Mounted on the line. It takes some concerted effort to put them on edge.

User error? Known limitation? It doesn't change how much I love the skis, but it is a little weird when you hit the last mile out after effortless floaty bliss in every type of 3d snow and all the sudden get loose.

On truly firm snow, they might as well be a DPS spoon. Basically useless.