Praxis Protest..just how cool is it?

**auvgeek** · 01-29-2019, 09:52 AM

I should have clarified a little: the Protest isn’t true R/R and the newer versions have even more sidecut than the 2013 196 that I skied. I’m not disputing Funky’s experience — and dude, I’d love to ski with you sometime cuz we often have pretty different impressions of skis and I find that interesting.

I’m just saying that the Protest comes from an R/R pedigree, Tabke skis with a pretty neutral stance, and I felt the 2013 196 Protest skied a lot like the other R/R skis I’ve used (L138, Renegades) ... but I didn’t have it in any pow deep enough to really evaluate tip dive, just like 6-10” of fresh on a soft base at Stevens. I felt like it rewarded a neutral stance more than LVS seems to like, but I might be wrong.

And yeah, speed and stiffness help any kind of R/R ski plane, but I still feel like you can’t really drive the tips or expect the tips to float like a pintail ski (L120, Lhasa, BG, etc).

**Norseman** · 01-29-2019, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Now I know I wasn't skiing fast enough ;-)

fify

**galibier_numero_un** · 01-29-2019, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Tabke skis with a pretty neutral stance ...

The idea of taking note of the stance pros use with respect to skis they've had design input to has been a recent revelation.

In retrosoect, this should have been obvious in the context of modern ski design.

So, I'm 1 for 3 with respect to skis he's had input to (Protests and Qs, not so much, but loving my GPOs).

Had I followed my "new theory" I would have missed out on GPOs, so there's that ;-)

... Thom

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**2FUNKY** · 01-29-2019, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by SupreChicken

You’ve seen me ski. Newest CD is way more my jam than the protest.

That said, on my protest, the tips stopped diving at -1.

Muggy? What’s the ideal mount point on the 192 to avoid tip dive for a bigger dude?

All my ProTest are mounted -2 from dimple.

Originally Posted by auvgeek

I should have clarified a little: the Protest isn’t true R/R and the newer versions have even more sidecut than the 2013 196 that I skied. I’m not disputing Funky’s experience — and dude, I’d love to ski with you sometime cuz we often have pretty different impressions of skis and I find that interesting.

I’m just saying that the Protest comes from an R/R pedigree, Tabke skis with a pretty neutral stance, and I felt the 2013 196 Protest skied a lot like the other R/R skis I’ve used (L138, Renegades) ... but I didn’t have it in any pow deep enough to really evaluate tip dive, just like 6-10” of fresh on a soft base at Stevens. I felt like it rewarded a neutral stance more than LVS seems to like, but I might be wrong.

And yeah, speed and stiffness help any kind of R/R ski plane, but I still feel like you can’t really drive the tips or expect the tips to float like a pintail ski (L120, Lhasa, BG, etc).

I would like that. I’ve noticed that as well.
LVS is a hard shin in boot over tip driver so he may not be able to get along with the ProTest required stance. Which for me mounted at -2 I feel once up to speed I can drive the tips pretty hard with no ill effect. Lower angle slow speeds they absolutely want you to be neutral.

Originally Posted by Norseman

fify

Hah!

**galibier_numero_un** · 01-29-2019, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Norseman

fify

I'm ok with the slow poke thing. So much time spent in tight trees ;-)

... Thom

**frorider** · 01-29-2019, 10:30 AM

Anyone else here skiing Protests as far back as -2?

Asking for a friend.

**2FUNKY** · 01-29-2019, 10:32 AM

(((Raises hand)))

**TripleT** · 01-29-2019, 10:47 AM

FWIW, I also like to drive my tips. The 186 Lhasa was one of my fav skis of all time and demanded tip drive.

The 187 protest is a cold dead hands ski for me. I did get tip dive at first, but have found a sweet spot at -10.25 from true center (which is around -1 from my dimple but I think that dimple is different than most). Perhaps I’ve adjusted my technique a bit for the protest but I certainly feel like I can ski it aggressively down the fall line with “drive,” perhaps not directly in the tips but that’s okay cuz my shit eating grin at the bottom is all that matters

**Bandit Man** · 01-29-2019, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

I should have clarified a little: the Protest isn’t true R/R and the newer versions have even more sidecut than the 2013 196 that I skied. I’m not disputing Funky’s experience — and dude, I’d love to ski with you sometime cuz we often have pretty different impressions of skis and I find that interesting.

I’m just saying that the Protest comes from an R/R pedigree, Tabke skis with a pretty neutral stance, and I felt the 2013 196 Protest skied a lot like the other R/R skis I’ve used (L138, Renegades) ... but I didn’t have it in any pow deep enough to really evaluate tip dive, just like 6-10” of fresh on a soft base at Stevens. I felt like it rewarded a neutral stance more than LVS seems to like, but I might be wrong.

And yeah, speed and stiffness help any kind of R/R ski plane, but I still feel like you can’t really drive the tips or expect the tips to float like a pintail ski (L120, Lhasa, BG, etc).

This was exactly my experience. I can understand why people would like the 192 Protest, especially if they mount them rear of the dimple, especially if they are a physically larger skier. The tail on Protest does not have a lot of rocker and makes you ski it more centered. I probably didn't ski them fast enough, but I felt like I was fighting the ski the faster they went...which is the exact opposite of what I feel on a ski like a BG...they get easier with speed (for me). In other words, I wanted to ski the Protest like I ski a BG...and that obviously doesn't work.

Finally, I'm over Praxis and their dimple is too forward for everyone and you gotta guess where to mount them approach. I don't have time for that nonsense.

**Muggydude** · 01-29-2019, 11:21 AM

I'm about 5'9 185lbs. I thought dimple was too far forward on my first 192s (still good there), moved to -1.25 on my current pair. Have not skied them yet. Messed around with the mount point on my 188s, I liked anywhere between -1 and -2. Bigger dudes 220lb plus I'd go -2.

The protest definitely isn't a traditional Fat Ski like the Lhasa/BG/C&D without "Tip Dive" per say.

I recently talked with Keith about it - most of the float and the balance point is underfoot and in front of the toe piece, which requires a centered stance. Light density pow is pretty easy to ski however you want, driving in and out of the snow is fun. Heavy wet pow is more like water skiing - get up to speed and plane, then smear and slash and do whatever. If you put all your weight driving forward you can/will submarine and have a bad time.

From a mechanics standpoint, it makes sense. All the buoyancy in pin-tail, fat tip skis is up front. you balance point is toward the rear of the ski, giving a natural tips up/unsinkable feel. Protest and R/R skis, all the buoyancy is underfoot, with less tips and tail. Balance point is pretty much right underfoot. Ski centered, and you'll have a balanced ride. Ski forward or rearward, and it'll be a little weird.

I love the way the Protest skis, but it require the proper approach and stance to enjoy. If you try to make it something it's not (a ski to drive the shovels hard), you probably won't click with it.

**TAFKALVS** · 01-29-2019, 11:25 AM

As a compulsive shin masher, I don't think the ProTest is for me. I'm back on the C&D train.

**2FUNKY** · 01-29-2019, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

As a compulsive shin masher, I don't think the ProTest is for me. I'm back on the C&D train.

You still need to get on mine in pow.

**TAFKALVS** · 01-29-2019, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

You still need to get on mine in pow.

Since I'm about to buy some C&D, we can A/B.

**grinch** · 01-29-2019, 11:35 AM

Protest at -1.5 and zero tip five issues. Farther back then my gpo, concept, piste jobs that were/are at -1

**Best Mexican Skier from Da South** · 01-29-2019, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Muggydude

I'm about 5'9 185lbs. I thought dimple was too far forward on my first 192s (still good there), moved to -1.25 on my current pair. Have not skied them yet. Messed around with the mount point on my 188s, I liked anywhere between -1 and -2. Bigger dudes 220lb plus I'd go -2.

The protest definitely isn't a traditional Fat Ski like the Lhasa/BG/C&D without "Tip Dive" per say.

I recently talked with Keith about it - most of the float and the balance point is underfoot and in front of the toe piece, which requires a centered stance. Light density pow is pretty easy to ski however you want, driving in and out of the snow is fun. Heavy wet pow is more like water skiing - get up to speed and plane, then smear and slash and do whatever. If you put all your weight driving forward you can/will submarine and have a bad time.

From a mechanics standpoint, it makes sense. All the buoyancy in pin-tail, fat tip skis is up front. you balance point is toward the rear of the ski, giving a natural tips up/unsinkable feel. Protest and R/R skis, all the buoyancy is underfoot, with less tips and tail. Balance point is pretty much right underfoot. Ski centered, and you'll have a balanced ride. Ski forward or rearward, and it'll be a little weird.

I love the way the Protest skis, but it require the proper approach and stance to enjoy. If you try to make it something it's not (a ski to drive the shovels hard), you probably won't click with it.

People who can’t get off shins should ski 100 underfoot on a pow day. That will correct that shiza.

**2FUNKY** · 01-29-2019, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

Since I'm about to buy some C&D, we can A/B.

Heck yeah!

Originally Posted by Best Mexican Skier from Da South

People who can’t get off shins should ski 100 underfoot on a pow day. That will correct that shiza.

Lol!

**TAFKALVS** · 01-29-2019, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Best Mexican Skier from Da South

People who can’t get off shins should ski 100 underfoot on a pow day. That will correct that shiza.

I can ski a 100mm underfoot in pow and still push on my shins. In fact, I had a great pow day on an 87mm underfoot a couple years ago.

**galibier_numero_un** · 01-29-2019, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

I can ski a 100mm underfoot in pow and still push on my shins. In fact, I had a great pow day on an 87mm underfoot a couple years ago.

Clearly I'm missing something. Having learned how to ski powder on 60mm, 207 slalom skis in the late '60's / early 70's, I thought the idea of fatties is to float. This might be a plot by the snorkel manufacturers

... Thom

**steveski** · 01-29-2019, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

As a compulsive shin masher, I don't think the ProTest is for me. I'm back on the C&D train.

I think this was what I was trying to convey but couldn't.

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**theetruscan** · 01-29-2019, 03:25 PM

I think the mount point discussion misses something. Hasn't the dimple changed over the years? There's a comment about -1 being 10.25 behind center on a pair of 187s. On my 192, -1 is 9 behind center. I could happily go further back, don't need to. Going to A/B with C&Ds though.

**sruffian** · 01-29-2019, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

As a compulsive shin masher, I don't think the ProTest is for me. I'm back on the C&D train.

Sure you made the right call, LWS. For the interwebs to know - the protest works for shin mashers. I prefer to ski them neutrally, but I can definitely drive the tips and not stuff them. I'm at -1 on 187's, though I'd usually ski a 190 or 192 inbounds.

**TAFKALVS** · 01-29-2019, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by sruffian

Sure you made the right call, LWS. For the interwebs to know - the protest works for shin mashers. I prefer to ski them neutrally, but I can definitely drive the tips and not stuff them. I'm at -1 on 187's, though I'd usually ski a 190 or 192 inbounds.

I guess now since I have C&D on the way and maybe protest acolytes in my life I will be able to try both and see if I made a mistake or not.

**auvgeek** · 01-29-2019, 04:53 PM

What C&D did you find?

**TAFKALVS** · 01-29-2019, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

What C&D did you find?

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...p-Desist-191cm

these bulldozers with the canoe rocker.

I figure they are cheap and maybe I'll swoop a pair of the newer goatrocker C&D when a mag decides that the newest shiny ski looks better. Bound to happen around here. I mean, I sold my 191 Billygoats!

**galibier_numero_un** · 01-29-2019, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...p-Desist-191cm

these bulldozers with the canoe rocker.

I figure they are cheap and maybe I'll swoop a pair of the newer goatrocker C&D when a mag decides that the newest shiny ski looks better. Bound to happen around here. I mean, I sold my 191 Billygoats!

If only a 184 shows up, but I know I'm dreaming.

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