Praxis Protest..just how cool is it?

[mn_teleswede]

Finally pulled the trigger. Some damn smexy sticks, can’t believe how light there are

Attachment 228900

Excuse me sir, “where do you have your Praxis skis”?
Cashier: “Over in aisle 3 by the frozen dinners; right next to the beef jerky display.”

[NW_SKIER]

Excuse me sir, “where do you have your Praxis skis”?
Cashier: “Over in aisle 3 by the frozen dinners; right next to the beef jerky display.”

Your post office doesn't sell beer? Time to find a new mailbox...

[Banh Mi]

RX are 2cm shorter than me and 106. Very short, for a purpose. BG's are 10cm longer and 116. So no meaningful comparison is possible. The BG's are vastly more stable. But again, that is meaningless. I'd really like to compare equal length, heavy build, 116 RX and BG. I think both would handle soft snow, speed and stability well. BG would win in deep pow. I think the BG would probably win in crusty variable 3d conditions (RES magic). And I think the BG would be more nimble. I can GS all day, or throw endless tight stable slalom 8's in soft snow on my BG's if I feel like it. I think they would be equally as bad on firm snow (ice, wind hammered). No idea about groomer snow or heavily tracked soft snow.

I have a good amount of days on Heavy Core#5 189 Rx now, and also 2017 189 BG's (pre-asym). They are both excellent, probably the best skis in their class, directional heavy snow chargers. Ultimately, the BG is more fun and and loose, and the Rx is more of a charger and carvy. Both ski heavier maritime pow very, very well. BG's are better for trees, and a little better in untracked, but the Rx slays hardpack, refrozen spring slush (coral reef), and ice, like a 105mm ski, without losing much in terms of float. In chop, it's a wash, both are among the best skis for tracked out resort pow. Rx feels more like an edgy one ski quiver, but doesn't shine as bright as BG's for slashing and surfing around. I don't mind BG's on refrozen coral, or slick ice, but the RES sidecut doesn't "hook up" like Rx's more traditional sidecut. In heavy mank, or rain days, the Rx is still better than most skis, but RES is up there with the best ( R/R, and maybe protest?)..

Both like to go fast and straight through difficult conditions. They both make difficult conditions easier to ski, and more enjoyable. In deep, soft, choppy, chunder bumps, that occur at high traffic resorts after a big dump, BG's surf and slarve right through them, as long as you follow the fall line. Rx handle them just as well, and also prefer the fall line, but Rx want to link large radius turns with cleaner (longer radius) carves. In deep untracked mank, or upside down powder with crust on top, the Rx's 32m radius and minimally tapered sidecut, performs almost as well as RES or full rocker Katana. I feel like I can be in the softer snow underneath the crust, and turn into that harder crust, without the tips hooking up at all, on both Rx and BG. I enjoy skis that make difficult conditions easier.

I suspect a heavy core #4 Rx, with carbon, would be better for untracked and messing around. The Praxis #5 glass flex is stiffer and more damp than 189 BG, but the On3p standard flex feels more poppy. Everyone knows about the BG's strengths, but it's harder to find a ton of info on Rx's. IMO the Rx's strengths are, quickness edge to edge, edge hold in unpredictable (firm or soft) situations, and heavy snow performance. Because the Rx is so quick for it's width, even though it has a long radius, I can wring out some quicker turns than expected, making them better in bumps and trees than you'd expect by reading the specification chart.

[doebedoe]

Hole Lee fuck

I just experienced untouched, bottomless open alpine terrain on the protest for the first time.

Unreal. I am not that rad of a skier; and I could not make a mistake.

Bibbys don’t come close.

[galibier_numero_un]

Goes to show ya ...

I'm not bonding with my 187 (2014?) Protests. These bad boys weigh 10.0 Lbs. and like to go straighter than I do.

They do some nice things, but having the Qs, I can't see myself loading the Ps into the car.

I think it was Shu Shu who commented that his Protests are a 2-3 time/year ski. If I bonded with them, that's probably how I'd approach them as well, much as I'd like to luck out with all-time conditions more frequently.

I've read quite a few comments here about how folks reach for them if 6" have fallen. From my perspective, that's the wrong tool for the job.

I only played with them for one morning in 9-10" of maritime blower (i.e. heavy, Spring powder), but I was in no way smitten with them.

Call me puzzled ...

[Edit] removed ad content (see next post).

... Thom

[galibier_numero_un]

Sweet. I hope you do as I would love to hear how the two compare. The regular Q is a phenomenal pow ski, and I don't grab my Protests unless it's really deep (like 2-3 times a year).

I was out yesterday with my buddy on a good soft-pack day, he was on Qs and I was on PJs. It was actually super cool to watch. He was making huge high speed arcs and then just feathering the tails to change the radius of the turns. When I watched it happen I was like yeah I know exactly what that feels like and its awesome. It was so cool to ski behind him and just watch how the tails slide around so easily with that feathering approach.

I would be very interested to know if that two footed/feather approach is similar/amplified/reduced by waist width. I can easily see adding a Skinny Q if the feel is similar, but just a little more nimble manageable for lower tide.

Here's my regular rotation from this season.

PJ- skiing with the family, spring bumps (so good)
Q-Everything else
Protest-big pow mornings

The above is from the current, main Praxis thread, but it has relevance to the whining I've been doing about my first day on Protests.

Your description is exactly what won me over with the Q's.

Too many of you with generally similar tastes to me, make me think I'm missing something with my Protests, so I'm going give them another few chances (let my ad on gear swap float down), but I'm not at all hopeful. We'll see if I eat my words.

What was bugging me about the Protests (in about 9" of moderately heavy powder) is that they didn't float better than the Q's, and I had to tailgun to keep the tips up. What's up with that?

Is it the relatively narrower tip in comparison with my GPOs, Qs, and departed Billy Goats?

These 187s (from 2014, I think) are mounted @ -1.5 from the dimple (102 straight-pull from the tip). The dimple is 100.5 from the tip. I wouldn't dare move them further back for fear of not being able to turn them at all.

I feel as if I'm skiing a completely different ski from what everyone is describing. These 187 beasts (at 10.0 Lbs even) feel like 2x4s. I never (for example) felt this way about my 184 Billy Goats.

I'll say one thing about them: of the Qs, Billy Goats, and these, the Protests are the most predictible, solid, and carve-y on harder snow, but it's not exactly why you take these skis out.

... Thom

[meter-man]

It's hard for me to advise you, who seems to have thought through ski construction and design about 10,000x more than me, but here goes....

- Give them five days. One day is never enough.
- Get a true bar to check flatness. Check the overall tune. You know that, but in maritime mank, that could make a difference.
- Tip dive? I have no idea. I'm 6', 190# (182 cm, 86kg), and never had issues with tip dive. Mounted at -0.75 from rec on the 187. Are you sure it's a Protest?
- What bindings/boots are you using? The various ramp angles can change the feeling significantly. The Protests like to be skied from a neutral stance, but I'm sure you know all of this. I've been on alpine set-up (STH) then remounted with Kingpins/Maestrale RS. Worked great with both.
- They go too straight? One thing I love about the Protest is that it makes small turns in deep snow so easy. Even at low speeds. But you can also open it up into huge turns or straightlines.

As you noted, "I feel as if I'm skiing a completely different ski from what everyone is describing." Give em another chance. I guess it's also possible you got a lemon?

[Shu Shu]

Thom tip dive is super weird, x2 "are your sure it's a Protest?". From your descriptions it does sound very much like you are describing a different ski.

There is big weather headed in this weekend for me and if all goes well I'm going to be A-B ing my Qs and Protests sunday. I will resist the to urge to comment until then, and hopefully maybe have something interesting to offer as it's been a while since I've ridden my Protests in reasonably appropriate conditions.

[meter-man]

There is big weather headed in this weekend for me and if all goes well I'm going to be A-B ing my Qs and Protests sunday. I will resist the to urge to comment until then, and hopefully maybe have something interesting to offer as it's been a while since I've ridden my Protests in reasonably appropriate conditions.

I'd love an A/B on the Qs/Protests. Thinking (long-term) about 194 Qs with Shifts for a travel set-up. (Where ya at Shu?)

[galibier_numero_un]

Thanks guys. I'm definitely going to stretch this experiment into next year.

The tune is good (I checked and freshened it up). Boots/bindings are a familiar combo: Lange XT 130 Freetours/Wardens.

I've heard that Protests were beefier at some point in the past. Based on a straight-pull of 186 and the Nylon top, Stained Glass Trees top sheet, I'm led to believe these are 187s from the 2014 time frame.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to measure the width at various points to see how it agrees with the current model. I did measure them at the waist (128), but nowhere else along the ski.

... Thom

[Shu Shu]

I'd love an A/B on the Qs/Protests. Thinking (long-term) about 194 Qs with Shifts for a travel set-up. (Where ya at Shu?)

LOL nowhere gnar that's for sure. I'm Montreal based so I hop around between Jay Vermont, Eastern Townships, Laurentians. Try and get out to either the interior of BC or WB once a year.

[waxoff]

What was bugging me about the Protests (in about 9" of moderately heavy powder) is that they didn't float better than the Q's, and I had to tailgun to keep the tips up. What's up with that?

With a rear mount on such a wide ski I can't help but wonder in what speed range you experience tip dive?

[Island Bay]

I think I've had my Protests for 6 or 7 years now. 187s mounted at the dimple. I've skied them in everything from bottomless 4% Japan fluff to heavy windblown NZ mank and spring hot pow. I have never, ever, had any tip dive.

In many conditions, incl 3" of variable NZ 3D, I can go as fast as on my 98 Monsters. They inspire total confidence.

[galibier_numero_un]

With a rear mount on such a wide ski I can't help but wonder in what speed range you experience tip dive?

Fairly slow, say 20-25. At the same speed, the Q's tips float a slight bit better.

I was expecting an on top of, rather than in the snow experience - especially in fairly dense snow.

I've been wondering if this is because the surface area is biased more toward the center of the ski , with a similar tip width, but wider waist than the Q, GPO, and Billy.

Maybe this surface area distribution plays more into the necessity of a centered stance than moving the mount point rearward by 1.5 cm mitigates it?

I'll put them in the carrier, and if we get closer to the 6" side rather than 3" tonight I'll pull them out tomorrow and report back.

Maybe I'm s slow learner.

... In many conditions, incl 3" of variable NZ 3D, I can go as fast as on my 98 Monsters. They inspire total confidence.

Yes, I definitely noticed this at speed.

... Thom

[2FUNKY]

Float issue on a ProTest is a non issue for me. Esp in higher density pow. The only thing I notice is on flatter terrain I must keep a centered balance point if going slow. Other than that they are float machines. So surfy.

[skibrd]

I skied my Protests for about 2 months before selling them. I had no issues in any density snow getting them to ski amazing. In low density, they didnt float on top as much as sliced though snow effortlessly with the tapered tips, yet provided enough float in what was there to keep my off the bottom. In heavy maritime snow, they are Praxis, designed for that type of snow, and excel.

I did have to ski them with a middle back stance, not quite over the middle of my foot, but not as fat back as skiing from the heels. It’s a different stance that what felt normal for me, but I liked it. Too much forward pressure and the tips did dive, but stand over the middle of the ski and surf the mountain, and the Protests did everything awesome.

I’m looking at ordering a new pair, but debating between the 196 and 192s. I like having a huge platform to rip around on, but am over dragging extra weight around when looking for the left over pow. Ill probably order the 196s, but i just never know.


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[Duffman]

The above is from the current, main Praxis thread, but it has relevance to the whining I've been doing about my first day on Protests.

Your description is exactly what won me over with the Q's.

Too many of you with generally similar tastes to me, make me think I'm missing something with my Protests, so I'm going give them another few chances (let my ad on gear swap float down), but I'm not at all hopeful. We'll see if I eat my words.

What was bugging me about the Protests (in about 9" of moderately heavy powder) is that they didn't float better than the Q's, and I had to tailgun to keep the tips up. What's up with that?

Is it the relatively narrower tip in comparison with my GPOs, Qs, and departed Billy Goats?

These 187s (from 2014, I think) are mounted @ -1.5 from the dimple (102 straight-pull from the tip). The dimple is 100.5 from the tip. I wouldn't dare move them further back for fear of not being able to turn them at all.

I feel as if I'm skiing a completely different ski from what everyone is describing. These 187 beasts (at 10.0 Lbs even) feel like 2x4s. I never (for example) felt this way about my 184 Billy Goats.

I'll say one thing about them: of the Qs, Billy Goats, and these, the Protests are the most predictible, solid, and carve-y on harder snow, but it's not exactly why you take these skis out.

... Thom

Check the tune. My OG 187 Protests mounted on the line felt tip divey, but alot of that was because the front part was too sharp and had basically zero bevel. It wasn't that the tips were truly submerging, but that the grabby, dragging feeling from the jacked up tune made the tips alternatively and randomly grab and decelerate, which threw me forward and gave the sensation of diving

[grinch]

Fairly slow, say 20-25. At the same speed, the Q's tips float a slight bit better.

I was expecting an on top of, rather than in the snow experience - especially in fairly dense snow.

I've been wondering if this is because the surface area is biased more toward the center of the ski , with a similar tip width, but wider waist than the Q, GPO, and Billy.

Maybe this surface area distribution plays more into the necessity of a centered stance than moving the mount point rearward by 1.5 cm mitigates it?

I'll put them in the carrier, and if we get closer to the 6" side rather than 3" tonight I'll pull them out tomorrow and report back.

Maybe I'm s slow learner.


Yes, I definitely noticed this at speed.

... Thom

I think I get where you’re coming from. Initially with mine I was like “holy shit they just want to go in a huuuge turn”. Once I started kicking out the tails to finish a turn I could alter the ski into any turn. You may want to overdo with the smear finish to your turns to get going then bring it back to incorporating it with how you usually finish your turns til you find that sweet spot.
For float I’d say roll the ski over a bit more . It does have a nice floaty tip shape but like you say the width of the shovel is narrower compared to the width of the waist then a gpo or rx. I guess my suggestions are kind of similar but I think that’s what I’ve found works. Eg; your turns have the ski rolled over on edge and finish with the ski more flat to smear the finish(it’ll get tighter and more seem less I think) and then float has the same, rolled over but it’s easier to smear those rolled over in 3D snow or flat for more of a smear finish. Never totally flat as it’s a wide ski so it helps to keep your weight on the inside of the turn. Not sure if any of that makes sense but that’s how I ended up using them. My turns with the smear finish got tighter eventually to the point Where it was subtle like a normal finish to a turn or accentuated for dumping speed or in tight spots. You’d probably get it in a couple days like most it seems but maybe my ramble helps

[lrn2swim]

I've been skiing the og ('09?) 188 Protests for the last few years and I can't even fathom burying the tips or thinking they just want to go straight, I'm 6'0 210 for reference. Never even remotely been on anything you can whip around in 4"s + easier with zero hook or friction. There's a joke in there somewhere.

[grinch]

I think the long turn comes from the lack of sidecut when it’s on edge. The sidecut is a short section so that moderates the radius but it doesn’t have much of an arc. Take out the tapers and make the sidecut the length of the ski with the same variation in width from boot Center to the front of the sidecut and rear and it’s probably a 55metre radius. Roll it on edge on a groomer and it’s a pretty long turn. Use the other attributes of the ski, especially in 3D, and it’s do anything you want when you want

[galibier_numero_un]

I think I get where you’re coming from. Initially with mine I was like “holy shit they just want to go in a huuuge turn”. Once I started kicking out the tails to finish a turn I could alter the ski into any turn. You may want to overdo with the smear finish to your turns to get going then bring it back to incorporating it with how you usually finish your turns til you find that sweet spot.

For float I’d say roll the ski over a bit more . It does have a nice floaty tip shape but like you say the width of the shovel is narrower compared to the width of the waist then a gpo or rx. I guess my suggestions are kind of similar but I think that’s what I’ve found works. Eg; your turns have the ski rolled over on edge and finish with the ski more flat to smear the finish (it’ll get tighter and more seem less I think) and then float has the same, rolled over but it’s easier to smear those rolled over in 3D snow or flat for more of a smear finish. Never totally flat as it’s a wide ski so it helps to keep your weight on the inside of the turn.

Not sure if any of that makes sense but that’s how I ended up using them. My turns with the smear finish got tighter eventually to the point Where it was subtle like a normal finish to a turn or accentuated for dumping speed or in tight spots. You’d probably get it in a couple days like most it seems but maybe my ramble helps

Thanks Grinch!

I'll read a description like this and my mind gets twisted into knots - trying to connect with my body while at a keyboard

It gives me some general concepts to fiddle with, and usually (in combination with background processing the verbal description), I'll let body wisdom enter the mix - frequently having a "lightbulb" moment.

That's what happened with the Quixotes.

Just the fact that you went through this, and your reporting subtle adaptations you had to make give me hope that this old dog can learn yet another new trick

I just dulled the edges back a bit further at the tip and laid a fresh coat of wax on them. They're in the rooftoop carrier and if we get an overnight mini-dump as promised, I'll give your suggestions a try (and report back).

... Thom

[Banh Mi]

Anyone been on both C&D and Protest, and care to compare?

[grinch]

Thanks Grinch!

I'll read a description like this and my mind gets twisted into knots - trying to connect with my body while at a keyboard

It gives me some general concepts to fiddle with, and usually (in combination with background processing the verbal description), I'll let body wisdom enter the mix - frequently having a "lightbulb" moment.

That's what happened with the Quixotes.

Just the fact that you went through this, and your reporting subtle adaptations you had to make give me hope that this old dog can learn yet another new trick

I just dulled the edges back a bit further at the tip and laid a fresh coat of wax on them. They're in the rooftoop carrier and if we get an overnight mini-dump as promised, I'll give your suggestions a try (and report back).

... Thom

Right on Thom. Hoping they click for you. I figured I’d chime in. We seem to have similar skis and mount points. That and I miss mine so maybe I’m a bit sentimental emphasis on teh “mental”

[lrn2swim]

I think the long turn comes from the lack of sidecut when it’s on edge. Use the other attributes of the ski, especially in 3D, and it’s do anything you want when you want

Yeah, exactly. Who the hell uses the edges on these things?

[N1CK.]

Any of you aficionados interested in hoarding a 2x drilled pair of 188s?