Fun, poppy, jumpy trailbike?

**Lindahl** · 08-28-2013, 12:14 PM

I have a Nomad that I've built up heavy. I love it in the bike park and on gnarlier descents. It's a great plow bike for high speed chunder. Looking to add a bike to the stable that has a poppy playful jumpy nature to make boring trails more interesting when I don't feel like throwing caution to the wind with the Nomad. Think maximizing air time off roots and terrain undulations and low bottom bracket. I'd be sprinting a lot with it out of corners and on flats, so accelleration is important.

I do not want something plush and plow-like that will soak up attempts to bunny hop, pump and preload the shock.

I'm mainly looking at the Blur TRc and XCc and the Yeti ASR5 at the moment. But am open to anything really. I'm leaning towards the Blur XCc with a 120mm fork at the moment. Was thinking the TRc would soak too much up.

Any thoughts about whether a pedal platform works better for this sort of ride in the shock or in the suspension design? (i.e. VPP with open shock vs single pivot with firm pedal shock)

I don't have much experience/skill in getting the most pop out of a bike, so I want something thats going to really get me off to the right start in that department.

Also, how much of it is just tuning the shock for this sort of ride? Could I pick just about shorter travel bike with a slack and low BB and play with shims, volume reducers and air pressure to get what I want out of an RP23 or Monarch?

Hoping to get this build down to around 23lbs with some wheels that won't implode (Havens) if I take a bad line and good cornering smaller tires (Maxxis Advantage or Michellin WildRace). Something that can really be chucked in the air.

**nickwm21** · 08-28-2013, 12:38 PM

Get a hardtail. Seriously.

sent from the future using my mind powers

**toast2266** · 08-28-2013, 12:40 PM

poppy + jumpy @ 23lbs? That sounds sketchy.

Regardless of weight issues, IMO a VPP bike is not what you want.

What wheel size? Maybe look at the Norco Sight?

**bendtheski** · 08-28-2013, 12:45 PM

When are we riding yo?

I have an '07 stumpy that bunny-hops just fine. Used to have brain, but replaced with Triad (similar to RP23 I think). Fork is last year's TALAS 32 RLC.

How much you wanna make a bet I can bunny-hop over them mountains?...

**shirk** · 08-28-2013, 12:45 PM

Short chainstay bike with a linkage driven single pivot.

**Lindahl** · 08-28-2013, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by nickwm21

Get a hardtail. Seriously.

sent from the future using my mind powers

Thats what I was going to start with, but after trying it out for a bit, it just doesn't work that well for me, a bit too inforgiving.

Looking at 26" wheels only.

**Gman** · 08-28-2013, 01:57 PM

Granted I work for GT but our new 650b sensor is dope! Rode it out at deer valley and had a blast.

**marshalolson** · 08-28-2013, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by shirk

Short chainstay bike with a linkage driven single pivot.

this. plus a semi-high main pivot in line with the chainring.

devinci comes to mind, as does the black market roam, which is a fantastic bike, though a bit heavy in the frame.

**Lindahl** · 08-28-2013, 02:16 PM

Glad to hear some consensus on suspension type. I'm curious what makes highish single pivots work so well in this application?

**pfluffenmeister** · 08-28-2013, 03:13 PM

^^^ easier to load up the shock with the longer lever angle?

**DirkaDirkaJack** · 08-28-2013, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by shirk

Short chainstay bike with a linkage driven single pivot.

so...kona process?

**chatton18** · 08-28-2013, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Gman

Granted I work for GT but our new 650b sensor is dope! Rode it out at deer valley and had a blast.

I was going to suggest a GT. The iDrive is pretty poppy and fun, but their geometries always felt a little off to me. New models seem to be showing some promise. I think idrive is essentially a high single pivot system.

**shirk** · 08-28-2013, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by DirkaDirkaJack

so...kona process?

The 134 is supposed to be a wicked fun bike. Was chatting with Seb Kemp on the weekend and he bought the test bike from Kona instead of sending it back. Said it's the most fun bike he's had in ages.

**Lindahl** · 08-28-2013, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by DirkaDirkaJack

so...kona process?

Except it's a 29er

**marshalolson** · 08-28-2013, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by pfluffenmeister

^^^ easier to load up the shock with the longer lever angle?

exactly - instant-center yo!

less squat under manual, less squat under pedal, but without tons of support (aka anti-squat) built into the linkage, so the wheel moves efficiently and does not hang @ square edged impact w/ moderate speeds.

**shirk** · 08-28-2013, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by marshalolson

exactly - instant-center yo!

less squat under manual, less squat under pedal, but without tons of support (aka anti-squat) built into the linkage, so the wheel moves efficiently and does not hang @ square edged impact w/ moderate speeds.

Wrong.

It's about the vector yaw control of the anti-squat when the COG is transversal to momentum with a falling rate shock and a rising rate linkage to counter act pedal feedback during the moment of inertia at the lip of a jump.

**D(C)** · 08-28-2013, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Except it's a 29er

Models exist in both 27.5 and 29 for next year.

**D(C)** · 08-28-2013, 04:08 PM

I've really been digging my Cannondale Jekyll, which is more responsive and playful to the somewhat numb feeling Reign it replaced. The 26" Trigger looks like a fun, shorter travel version.

**Lindahl** · 08-28-2013, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by D(C)

I've really been digging my Cannondale Jekyll, which is more responsive and playful to the somewhat numb feeling Reign it replaced. The 26" Trigger looks like a fun, shorter travel version.

The old Cannondale Rize looks good too. I've looked at that before but can't remember why I skipped over it. Maybe too wimpy looking? Doesn't look very stiff for laying over. The upper part of the chainstay is puny. Does that matter much, or is only the lower part of the chainstay generally relevant? The Trigger looks beefier. Can you put a regular fork/shock on those? I hate proprietary shit.

The ASR5 is looking better than earlier. The pivot is not quite over the BB, but it's relatively close, and is dinging all the other bells.

**climberevan** · 08-28-2013, 05:02 PM

I don't know too much about suspension design, but I rode a Knolly Endorphin and Chilcotin back-to-back on the same trail a while back. They have the exact same suspension design ("4-bar linkage"), and the Endorphin had an RP23 and the Chilcotin a DB Air. The Endorphin was WAY more lively and poppy than the Chilcotin. It was easier to finesse and jump, while the Chilcotin just seemed to soak up everything and want to go way faster than my balls allowed. Thus, I think it may have as much to do with shock and tuning as basic design...

**BigLineSeeker** · 08-28-2013, 05:53 PM

I have a medium norco sight LE I will be selling in a month or so. Quick, fun, poppy but can handle the rowdy stuff pretty well too. Revelation, RP23, 823s on hope, nn/rara tubeless, 10sp XT drivetrain, reverb - no brakes or cockpit (going on new bike). Frame is near mint and components are all in great shape (only 5 rides on new shifters, clutch derailleur and cassette).

Super fun bike and I am sure I will regret selling it, but I am going to give the 650b a shot with the Solo Carbon.

**donkeykong** · 08-28-2013, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Lindahl

The old Cannondale Rize looks good too. I've looked at that before but can't remember why I skipped over it. Maybe too wimpy looking? Doesn't look very stiff for laying over. The upper part of the chainstay is puny. Does that matter much, or is only the lower part of the chainstay generally relevant? The Trigger looks beefier. Can you put a regular fork/shock on those? I hate proprietary shit.

The ASR5 is looking better than earlier. The pivot is not quite over the BB, but it's relatively close, and is dinging all the other bells.

I have a medium Rize I'm looking to part with, if interested.

**scrublover** · 08-28-2013, 06:46 PM

Short shock a Heckler? Short, slack, cheap, easy, rides well.

**kidwoo** · 08-28-2013, 07:09 PM

Leverage ratio (through the travel, not overall) is a lot more important that single vs. multi-whatever if you want poppy.

I certainly wouldn't exclude a bike that's not a single pivot. Considering whatever you'll be looking at will probably be fitted with an air shock, you can pretty much take control of this.

But a short chainstay seems like the most important prerequisite to me, not suspension design. Just as long as it's not a nomad. There's no helping those things.

Finstah · 08-28-2013, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by D(C)

I've really been digging my Cannondale Jekyll, which is more responsive and playful to the somewhat numb feeling Reign it replaced. The 26" Trigger looks like a fun, shorter travel version.

After spending a fair amount of time recently on a Jekyll, I can attest to how stiff these frames are and how well that Fox DYAD shock works.