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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by krp8128 View Post
    Simplest iteration of that concept I have seen so far. I'm hording aluminum cans (hairspray, sunblock, shaving cream) and as soon as they are empty am going to try a few designs I have seen.
    Read Skurka's posts about them: http://andrewskurka.com/section/how-...toves-kitchen/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  2. #27
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    I have three stoves: whisperlite int'l, primus cannister stove and a trio of penny stoves from ebay (fuel bottle, stoves, stand, wind break for under $15).
    The penny stoves are like the fancy feast stove only they come in a couple different designs (open well, penny top, etc.). The penny is my go-to stove, though it took a lot of tinkering to get it to work properly.

    In my basement, lighting the thing was simple, took one try. but in the woods, when the temperature drops, this thing is tempermental. it's hard to get the fuel to vaporize.
    I finally figured out a solution. either get an alumninum cupcake liner from a grocery store or make a bowl out of tinfoil and put about 1/4" fuel in it. Set the stove in that bowl, fill the stove and light the fuel in the tinfoil bowl. This gets the vapors working nad lights the penny stove.
    I plan to take a penny stove into Torres Del Paine early next month, but will likely carry the wisperlite as backup - just so my wife can't rant about how I "shoulda bought a jetboil."


    Oh, and the whole thing (fuel, 2 stoves, stand, screen, etc.) fits inside my 1L GSA Outdoors pot. and weights roughly 3 oz. more than the weight of fuel I'm carrying.
    I demoed the TECH TALK JONG! pro model this spring and their performance was unparalleled which is good because I ski in a wedge most of the time - bendtheski, 2011

  3. #28
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    I've had a Brunton branded Optimus Nova for 6 years. That thing is bulletproof all around; I have literally hundreds of days in the field and I'd imagine over 1000 lights with that thing. Dragged it all over the West, down to -15 degrees, snow, rain, wind, dirt, dust, it just keeps on going. It's not loud like an XGK, and simmers like a Dragonfly - best of both. Unlike MSR XGK or Dragonfly the cup is leather, which means when it starts to dry out all you do is oil it, it doesn't fall apart in the field. The only maintenance I've ever done is rub a bit of olive oil into that cup a few times, clean the jet with the handy magnetic needle tool, and replace the burner plate because a client knocked it over and lost it once. It will burn almost anything (white gas, kerosene, diesel, jet fuel). If you aren't going the denatured route I can't recommend a piece of gear higher.

    FWIW I've used: XGK, Dragonfly, Whisperlite, Pocket Rocket, Jet Boil
    "The world is a very puzzling place. If you're not willing to be puzzled you just become a replica of someone else's mind." Chomsky

    "This system make of us slaves. Without dignity. Without depth. No? With a devil in our pocket. This incredible money in our pocket. This money. This shit. This nothing. This paper who have nothing inside." Jodorowsky

  4. #29
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    http://www.coghlans.com/products/fire-paste-8607

    Hey this stuff^^ is much safer than using fuel to get a stove started, also good for getting fires going without carrying tinder no matter how wet it gets ... just squeeze some out on a piece of wood
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swine View Post
    I've had a Brunton branded Optimus Nova for 6 years. That thing is bulletproof all around; I have literally hundreds of days in the field and I'd imagine over 1000 lights with that thing. Dragged it all over the West, down to -15 degrees, snow, rain, wind, dirt, dust, it just keeps on going. It's not loud like an XGK, and simmers like a Dragonfly - best of both. Unlike MSR XGK or Dragonfly the cup is leather, which means when it starts to dry out all you do is oil it, it doesn't fall apart in the field. The only maintenance I've ever done is rub a bit of olive oil into that cup a few times, clean the jet with the handy magnetic needle tool, and replace the burner plate because a client knocked it over and lost it once. It will burn almost anything (white gas, kerosene, diesel, jet fuel). If you aren't going the denatured route I can't recommend a piece of gear higher.

    FWIW I've used: XGK, Dragonfly, Whisperlite, Pocket Rocket, Jet Boil
    I assume you mean the pump cups? My old dragonfly pump cup certainly was leather, I oiled it a few times. Not sure about the new ones, haven't need to take the new one apart yet.

  6. #31
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    MSR replaced leather pump cups with synthetic years ago.

    People are still using liquid fuel stoves for backpacking? Our XGK and Whisperlights have not been out of the gear closet for years.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    MSR replaced leather pump cups with synthetic years ago.

    People are still using liquid fuel stoves for backpacking? Our XGK and Whisperlights have not been out of the gear closet for years.
    Some places it's impossible or a pain in the ass to recycle canisters - that keeps me with liquid, but I'm a tree hugger. Plus, tracking down/managing cans in S. America is something I'm not interested in. YMMV.
    "The world is a very puzzling place. If you're not willing to be puzzled you just become a replica of someone else's mind." Chomsky

    "This system make of us slaves. Without dignity. Without depth. No? With a devil in our pocket. This incredible money in our pocket. This money. This shit. This nothing. This paper who have nothing inside." Jodorowsky

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swine View Post
    Some places it's impossible or a pain in the ass to recycle canisters
    If you poke a hole in it and crush it, any recycling facility will take a spent fuel canister. I've been crushing and recycling them for years. If they are crushed, it's just another piece of steel to a recycler.

    I'm not buying the notion that liquid fuel stoves are more eco-friendly. Canister stoves with integrated heat exchanger pots (e.g., Reactor, Jet Boil Sol) are 3X more fuel efficient, burn much cleaner and avoid the spilling in the wilderness and fuel waste associated with priming. Recycled steel gets used and is a hot market. When we recycle here in the PNW, we can bet that the steel will be used. Pretty sure that's true for most of America, Western Europe, Japan, Brazil and other developed nations. Hell, even China is recycling every piece of steel they can get their hands on. Recycling steel is actually relatively green because it requires far less energy than extracting iron from ore, and it doesn't require digging a hole in the ground.
    Last edited by Big Steve; 08-22-2013 at 12:38 PM.

  9. #34
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Swine View Post
    Plus, tracking down/managing cans in S. America is something I'm not interested in. YMMV.
    It was easier to find canisters there (as I've dickwaved, Peru, Chile, Argentina, bunch of other places popular for mountain people to go around the world) than white gas in my experience. The whole "global liquid fuel stove" thing is a relic of probably 20 years ago. Canisters are pretty much everywhere that people go.

    If I had a complaint it'd more be finding apropriate food to cook on a Big Steve boil water canister stove is a painintheass other places.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    If I had a complaint it'd more be finding apropriate food to cook on a Big Steve boil water canister stove is a painintheass other places.
    Actually, we cook quite a bit on 2- and 3-day trips and some longer trips if we catch high lake fish. JB Sol simmers like a champ and has pot support for non-HX pots and frying pans.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    If you poke a hole in it and crush it, any recycling facility will take a spent fuel canister. I've been crushing and recycling them for years. If they are crushed, it's just another piece of steel to a recycler.

    I'm not buying the notion that liquid fuel stoves are more eco-friendly. Canister stoves with integrated heat exchanger pots (e.g., Reactor, Jet Boil Sol) are 3X more fuel efficient, burn much cleaner and avoid the spilling in the wilderness and fuel waste associated with priming. Recycled steel gets used and is a hot market. When we recycle here in the PNW, we can bet that the steel will be used. Pretty sure that's true for most of America, Western Europe, Japan, Brazil and other developed nations. Hell, even China is recycling every piece of steel they can get their hands on. Recycling steel is actually relatively green because it requires far less energy than extracting iron from ore, and it doesn't require digging a hole in the ground.
    Ah, that makes sense, I never owned a can stove so I was just making assumptions. Steel is easy as pie to recycle pretty much everywhere, just crush to something that doesn't look pressurized. I'm still up in the air about which is most eco-friendly, you'd have to track the supply chain and manufacture of cans blah blah blah...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    It was easier to find canisters there (as I've dickwaved, Peru, Chile, Argentina, bunch of other places popular for mountain people to go around the world) than white gas in my experience. The whole "global liquid fuel stove" thing is a relic of probably 20 years ago. Canisters are pretty much everywhere that people go.

    If I had a complaint it'd more be finding apropriate food to cook on a Big Steve boil water canister stove is a painintheass other places.
    The point is you don't need white gas. In the "backwaters" of Bolivia the easiest thing to find is the same shit they put in vehicles, gas/diesel. You guys have gotten me thinking about cans more now though, it would be nice to have a much lighter setup...
    "The world is a very puzzling place. If you're not willing to be puzzled you just become a replica of someone else's mind." Chomsky

    "This system make of us slaves. Without dignity. Without depth. No? With a devil in our pocket. This incredible money in our pocket. This money. This shit. This nothing. This paper who have nothing inside." Jodorowsky

  12. #37
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Swine View Post
    The point is you don't need white gas. In the "backwaters" of Bolivia the easiest thing to find is the same shit they put in vehicles, gas/diesel. You guys have gotten me thinking about cans more now though, it would be nice to have a much lighter setup...
    XGKs/Whisperlite Internationals run like shit on that stuff even with the proper jet. I get your point - filling up at a gas station in rural Kyrgyzstan is easier than hunting down a canister - but those either kind run so much better on the good stuff it's worth the hassle.

    whatever big steve, go charge some client for your arguing.

  13. #38
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    I still have a brand new, never used MSR reactor stove, shipped for $105.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    XGKs/Whisperlite Internationals run like shit on that stuff even with the proper jet.
    When we bicycled to Alaska in 1981 we burned car gasoline, leaded or unleaded, in an XGK. No problem so long as you clean the jet after every couple hours of running time. Jet fuel burns fine in an XGK with the kerosene jet. More BTUs in jet fuel/diesel/kerosene/heating oil, boils faster than white gas.

    Anyway, I'm done with that shit. Isobutane/propane mix is so easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    whatever big steve, go charge some client for your arguing.
    Done

  15. #40
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    Let's face it, canister stoves are more practical, especially for 3-season trips (the OP was asking about backpacking, not winter camping, right?) They're also much less of a PITA to fly with. I use a plain canister stove not a Jetboil because I'm cheap, and also keep the fantasy of making food that requires saute'ing rather than just boiling, even though I rarely do.

    But on the other hand, liquid fuel stoves just have more impressive destructive power. Suppose you are confronted with a snow cave full of Nazi zombies like in that ridiculous Norwegee movie from a couple years ago, or worse yet Nazi grizzly bears, are you going to make a flamethrower out of a Jetboil? I don't think so. The Whisperlite is still superior for personal defense in the wild.

  16. #41
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    I used pump gasoline for two months without any issues in my dragonfly. Gasoline is MUCH better than diesel. I wash the bottle with soap and put it in my carry on when I fly. They don't even check what's in it :/ Can they see on x-ray if a metal bottle is empty? Doubt it.
    They have canister stoves in most places, but it can be a big detour.

    The dragonfly takes a bit of setup. Sometimes I wish I had a jetboil for simplicity, but I wouldn't give my dragonfly up for a jetboil.

    For short solo, quick and dirty trips I just use solid fuel with a beer can pot. Dirty and smelly but I aint fussy. Beer cans make great pots and solid fuel is as simple as you can get.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by daught View Post
    I used pump gasoline for two months without any issues in my dragonfly. Gasoline is MUCH better than diesel. I wash the bottle with soap and put it in my carry on when I fly. They don't even check what's in it :/ Can they see on x-ray if a metal bottle is empty? Doubt it.
    They have canister stoves in most places, but it can be a big detour.

    The dragonfly takes a bit of setup. Sometimes I wish I had a jetboil for simplicity, but I wouldn't give my dragonfly up for a jetboil.

    For short solo, quick and dirty trips I just use solid fuel with a beer can pot. Dirty and smelly but I aint fussy. Beer cans make great pots and solid fuel is as simple as you can get.
    Interesting. I've heard that used MSR liquid bottles set off the chem detector--even when thoroughly cleaned out. Shows what I know. What about the pump? Same thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  18. #43
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    When we bicycled to Alaska in 1981 we burned car gasoline, leaded or unleaded, in an XGK. No problem so long as you clean the jet after every couple hours of running time.
    so, it burns like shit is what you are saying. in my experience - with an XGK made in the 90s, and used in teh 20s, as well as a circa 2000 Whisperlite international, gasoline was less powerful. But thanks for that big steve, glad I could count on you.

    at least on one occasion they saw the fuel bottle on the X-Ray and GASP! opened the bag to check if it was full or not!

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by daught View Post
    For short solo, quick and dirty trips I just use solid fuel with a beer can pot. Dirty and smelly but I aint fussy. Beer cans make great pots and solid fuel is as simple as you can get.
    for short solo, quick and dirty trips (and sometimes longer/non-solo trips), i don't take a stove or food that needs to be cooked....

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldfeet View Post
    The Whisperlite is still superior for personal defense in the wild.
    Blowing up an isobutane canister in a camp fire is an impressive show of force in a shock and awe sorta way.

  21. #46
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    The X-ray transmission is sensitive to total amount of material, and they use a two-band system to discriminate between different types of materials (soft stuff, organics, vs heavier metals, etc) - this is what the X-ray machine display is showing in false color. So a full bottle probably looks different than a empty bottle, but they might sometimes ask you to pull the empty bottle out so they can look. In which case it would be annoying if the bottle says "FUEL" in big letters, as many do.

    A week ago, I flew back from a work + hiking trip. I had intended to give my partially used butane canister to somebody, but forgot and left it in my laptop bag. I didn't discover this until rooting through the bag while sitting at the gate. Shit! I figured it was better to break state law by discreetly dropping it in a trash can (inappropriate hazmat disposal), than to double down on breaking Federal law by carrying it on the plane. There wasn't much fuel left in it and I haven't heard about any exploding garbage trucks, so my conscience is clean. It hasn't increased my confidence in TSA goons though.

  22. #47
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    I guess it depends on your application, but I really like my MSR Dragonfly. It can hold a huge pot full of snow with no problems and you can adjust the flame to cook pancakes, boil water in no time, or melt snow. I have a 2.4L pot that I use to cook and store the stove in when I'm backpacking, but I'm typically the camp chef so I don't mind slugging a bigger stove around. Its the only backpacking stove with a great flame adjuster. Seriously, you can get the simmer so low to cook crepes without torching them.

    They make a Jet Boil pan with a fluxring, but with no flame control its basically impossible to cook on. JB are just for boiling water and nothing else.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stairmaster View Post
    They make a Jet Boil pan with a fluxring, but with no flame control its basically impossible to cook on. JB are just for boiling water and nothing else.
    Nope. You got that wrong. JB Sol has plenty of flame control, as good as any stove I've every used. I'll acknowledge that it's a small flame pattern, but that's a different issue (one apparently addressed by the fluxring fry pan).

    IME, the best test for flame control is backpacker pizza, which we cook (well, more like Dutch oven baking) with a super low flame on my JB Sol and a non-HX frying pan. I might get the fluxring pan, but what we have works fine.

    I'll agree that the Reactor is designed only for snowmelting and heating/boiling water. But you've got it wrong re the JB Sol, which works great for simmering. Use the pot support (standard equipment) when using a fry pan or non-HX pot. (I don't know re other JB stoves, which do not impress me; the Sol is a huge step up for JB.)

  24. #49
    Hugh Conway Guest
    big steve backpacking jihadist marchs on

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    Nope. You got that wrong. JB Sol has plenty of flame control, as good as any stove I've every used. I'll acknowledge that it's a small flame pattern, but that's a different issue (one apparently addressed by the fluxring fry pan).

    IME, the best test for flame control is backpacker pizza, which we cook (well, more like Dutch oven baking) with a super low flame on my JB Sol and a non-HX frying pan. I might get the fluxring pan, but what we have works fine.

    I'll agree that the Reactor is designed only for snowmelting and heating/boiling water. But you've got it wrong re the JB Sol, which works great for simmering. Use the pot support (standard equipment) when using a fry pan or non-HX pot. (I don't know re other JB stoves, which do not impress me; the Sol is a huge step up for JB.)
    Choosing a stove comes down to personal performance and how you intend to use it. I personally love my Dragonfly for many reasons and it suits how I backpack and snowcamp. But, I understand and see the appeal of the JB and I've used one, but was not really impressed. Feels flimsy too me and has too many plastic parts that will eventually wear out or snap in the really cold temps. It might be able to simmer and do a some basic cooking, but I don't think that is primary intended use. Boiling water is the JB main game, IMO.

    Plus MSR is local and I would rather keep my money in my backyard...

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