The Raven - Hoji's New Masterpiece

[benzo92]

Right on. Hope you sort it out with those. Oddly I’m on my second season on my ravens. Maybe 75 days on them. And I loved them for almost all of them. I just swapped my liners for tour wraps and i feel like I’m learning to ski again.

Something about the liners make me feel like im standing so upright, there’s definitely more foam on my shins now.

I suddenly feel like the ski is way more sensitive to my balance, whereas before it felt fairly effortless.

[Andyski]

7 days in on 184s and am pondering moving the mount back 1 or 1.5 from rec. I’m 5’8”, 140 with a 24.5 zgtp, so theoretically the line should be perfect for my fun size. Bindings are atk/hagan core 12s with toe shims, and boots are in the more upright lean. In pure pow, they’re great so long as you don’t get forward even a little (front of ski bogs down). On harder snow - even icy volcano garbage - they’re bizarrely good. In anything 3d and funky or cut up - anything not great pow skiing perfectly centered or slightly back or hard pack, they don’t have that loose/slarvy thing that they’re supposed to. They don’t feel at all quick in the trees if it’s not perfect snow. My fucking 184 metal OG katanas feel quicker. Yes, I detuned tips and tails. These are for touring.

I am used to volkl mounts, so there’s that. It took me a long-ass time to figure out the OG squad 7 which also had a ton of tail: was about to sell them until I had my epiphany on them and fell in love.

Mount back? Give it more time? Cut off 4cm of tail? Watch more hoji clips to try to get the whole lateral move thing dialed? Did it take others awhile to figure this things out totally?

[kc_7777]

More time IMO.

I have a short bsl and am 5’7”, 167 lbs. Got last years 184 Ravens and this years 184 Hojis. Both are mounted on the rec dimple and both feel perfect there. I was previously mounted forward of the dimple on the Ravens (+1.2cm due to mounting +0.5cm and then going to a 7mm shorter bsl) and they felt wrong there.

On the dimple, they’re both slarvy and allow you to make Hoji turns at will in soft snow. Perfect. Awesome when you roll them over to engage the whole ski edge if it’s harder snow. Very happy with the rec dimple. That all being said I do like more forwardish mounts. I think Volklish -11cm mounts are pretty f’d (for me at least).

Skiing in Head Kore 1, 130 flex boots with a forward lean of 14˚ (sometimes with a calf shim in, sometimes not).

Just spent 5 days on the powder highway and Ravens/Hojis were all I skied.

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[meter-man]

Does anyone like Ravens (or new versions of Hojis) in maritime snowpacks? All of the love for these skis seems to come from Colorado (Blister), Utah, and interior BC.

In the California Sierra Nevada, I found the Ravens to be too narrow for soft snow - or I’d rather be on something wider or with a floatier tip. Admittedly, I was on the 184 and should have been on 190, but it just seemed like the tips would get overwhelmed by the thicker snow we have here. And if it’s consistently deep and soft, I’d rather be on something fat (130 underfoot) or at least mid-fat (110-115) with a tip that floats better.

After a trip to Utah last month, I realized my skis would be about 10mm narrower if I lived there, compared to what I like here in California.


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[singlesline]

7 days in on 184s and am pondering moving the mount back 1 or 1.5 from rec. I’m 5’8”, 140 with a 24.5 zgtp, so theoretically the line should be perfect for my fun size. Bindings are atk/hagan core 12s with toe shims, and boots are in the more upright lean. In pure pow, they’re great so long as you don’t get forward even a little (front of ski bogs down). On harder snow - even icy volcano garbage - they’re bizarrely good. In anything 3d and funky or cut up - anything not great pow skiing perfectly centered or slightly back or hard pack, they don’t have that loose/slarvy thing that they’re supposed to. They don’t feel at all quick in the trees if it’s not perfect snow. My fucking 184 metal OG katanas feel quicker. Yes, I detuned tips and tails. These are for touring.

I am used to volkl mounts, so there’s that. It took me a long-ass time to figure out the OG squad 7 which also had a ton of tail: was about to sell them until I had my epiphany on them and fell in love.

Mount back? Give it more time? Cut off 4cm of tail? Watch more hoji clips to try to get the whole lateral move thing dialed? Did it take others awhile to figure this things out totally?

I don't have much time on mine yet, but seeing toe shims and upright boots, is it possible you are actually too upright?

I'm using unshimmed Xenics (which have a lot of delta) and MTN Labs (which have a little more lean than your boots, not sure how the ramp compares)--and while I'd like to try shimming the toes a bit, the skis definitely have the loose slarvy feel as they are. I'm mounted about where the hoji formula says I should be with 28.5 boots.

I'm not boot wizard, but I feel like forward lean/ramp can have counter-intuitive effects on how you ski. Some people report wanting more lean or ramp on forward mount points/neutral stance skis (hypothesizing here, but maybe it lets you get in "the stance" without actually loading up the front of the ski whereas in a more upright setup you start applying pressure to the front of the boot earlier). So if it is easy to try pulling the shims (or adjusting the boot lean), I'd try that before remounting.

I tried to pause a Hoji video where he was skiing Ravens and I think he was skiing Radical 2.0s (which have a healthy heel-toe delta) and I couldn't see any obvious toe shims...not sure how much lean his boots have--Hoji free is 17°, but I think the other Hoji boots are 11°.

[Hughwindlip]

Does anyone like Ravens (or new versions of Hojis) in maritime snowpacks? All of the love for these skis seems to come from Colorado (Blister), Utah, and interior BC.

In the California Sierra Nevada, I found the Ravens to be too narrow for soft snow - or I’d rather be on something wider or with a floatier tip. Admittedly, I was on the 184 and should have been on 190, but it just seemed like the tips would get overwhelmed by the thicker snow we have here. And if it’s consistently deep and soft, I’d rather be on something fat (130 underfoot) or at least mid-fat (110-115) with a tip that floats better.

After a trip to Utah last month, I realized my skis would be about 10mm narrower if I lived there, compared to what I like here in California.


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Yes

Toured in Rockies for 5 yrs and now 5 yrs on coast

Hojis crush, so versatile.

Also have Ravens for fitness laps

Renegades when the day warrants it.

Converted a neighbor to hojis..paying it forward.

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[rfconroy]

Yes

Toured in Rockies for 5 yrs and now 5 yrs on coast

Hojis crush, so versatile.

Also have Ravens for fitness laps

Renegades when the day warrants it.

Converted a neighbor to hojis..paying it forward.

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What binders are those between the pilsner dynafit hojis & blue ravents?!?!

[kc_7777]

Yes

Toured in Rockies for 5 yrs and now 5 yrs on coast

Hojis crush, so versatile.

Also have Ravens for fitness laps

Renegades when the day warrants it.

Converted a neighbor to hojis..paying it forward.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Pretty sure this is what my quiver will look like in a few years.

[ticketchecker]

Pretty sure this is what my quiver will look like in a few years.

For a season maybe


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[Andyski]

[FONT=proxima-nova]

I don't have much time on mine yet, but seeing toe shims and upright boots, is it possible you are actually too upright?

I'm using unshimmed Xenics (which have a lot of delta) and MTN Labs (which have a little more lean than your boots, not sure how the ramp compares)--and while I'd like to try shimming the toes a bit, the skis definitely have the loose slarvy feel as they are. I'm mounted about where the hoji formula says I should be with 28.5 boots.

I'm not boot wizard, but I feel like forward lean/ramp can have counter-intuitive effects on how you ski. Some people report wanting more lean or ramp on forward mount points/neutral stance skis (hypothesizing here, but maybe it lets you get in "the stance" without actually loading up the front of the ski whereas in a more upright setup you start applying pressure to the front of the boot earlier). So if it is easy to try pulling the shims (or adjusting the boot lean), I'd try that before remounting.

I’ll toss a spoiler on the boots for the fuck of it and see if more lean helps. Seems counterintuitive (I’ve been working on the whole “ski with flat even pressure on bottom of foot” thing) but worth a shot.

[ey_allen]

Does anyone like Ravens (or new versions of Hojis) in maritime snowpacks? All of the love for these skis seems to come from Colorado (Blister), Utah, and interior BC.

In the California Sierra Nevada, I found the Ravens to be too narrow for soft snow - or I’d rather be on something wider or with a floatier tip. Admittedly, I was on the 184 and should have been on 190, but it just seemed like the tips would get overwhelmed by the thicker snow we have here. And if it’s consistently deep and soft, I’d rather be on something fat (130 underfoot) or at least mid-fat (110-115) with a tip that floats better.

After a trip to Utah last month, I realized my skis would be about 10mm narrower if I lived there, compared to what I like here in California.


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Yes. They are my every day PNW touring ski, and I ski them in the resort when I am skiing with the kids. No complaints on the width, but I have other skis for the really deep days. The skis are beefy enough with enough rocker that the heavier snow doesn't pose a challenge.

[kc_7777]

For a season maybe

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Fair point.



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[Hughwindlip]

What binders are those between the pilsner dynafit hojis & blue ravents?!?!

1st gen tele

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[Hughwindlip]

I’ll toss a spoiler on the boots for the fuck of it and see if more lean helps. Seems counterintuitive (I’ve been working on the whole “ski with flat even pressure on bottom of foot” thing) but worth a shot.

I put the spoiler on my hawx 130 xtd, prefer them over the hoji 130 for what it's worth.

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[Hughwindlip]

Pretty sure this is what my quiver will look like in a few years.

More the merrier!

Always hunting for the heavier gen hojis, excellent resort ski. Tour well too.

The older Ren's in 186 felt too short, but I never skied the big bois

The new era, lighter 191s are pretty epic.

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[Judo Chop!]

... and I ski them in the resort when I am skiing with the kids. .

super random.. but yeah, they are great for this. centre mount helps with all the luge track ski runs I get dragged through. fun for goofing around on side hits. but still fun when you get a moment to open them up.

mostly I just like that they're lighter and easier to carry when I'm also carrying random kid things & skis.

but otherwise, yes. they're great for coastal snow. particularly off resort conditions. have Raven+Ren for mostly backcountry. Devastators for heavy burly version of the same feelings in resort.

[ey_allen]

super random.. but yeah, they are great for this. centre mount helps with all the luge track ski runs I get dragged through. fun for goofing around on side hits. but still fun when you get a moment to open them up.

mostly I just like that they're lighter and easier to carry when I'm also carrying random kid things & skis.

but otherwise, yes. they're great for coastal snow. particularly off resort conditions. have Raven+Ren for mostly backcountry. Devastators for heavy burly version of the same feelings in resort.

This is exactly why they are my go-to kids ski. They are fun if I can sneak off on my own, and easy to whip around in trees and luges that little kids seem to gravitate towards. The weight plus the fact that my touring boots are much easier to walk in while carrying all the kids gear is added goodness.

They also ski switch easily, which I find myself doing a lot with the kids just to check if they are still behind me or have them following me.

[singlesline]

Skinned up the resort on my ravens last night in a nice little dumping of post-close snow.

Had so much fun I picked them again for riding chairs on the rest of that snow this morning. I'm really warming up to them.

I don't think a ski like this could be a daily driver for me--inbounds I know I'm going to spend enough time on groomers getting from A to B that I'd just prefer some camber and a tighter radius.

But in mixed conditions like these (I'm guessing 3-4" fell after close last night on top of 3" that fell yesterday morning onto a variable base) they offer a sort of laid back delightful kind of skiing. Require pretty low effort to pivot in the trees, don't get too upset if they get knocked around by firmer snow underneath the surface, don't beg to be driven hard. For a general purpose touring ski, that's pretty much on target in my opinion.

I should have gone with 190s instead of 184s though--There may be a pair of 190cm 4locks in my future.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I’ve grabbed my 190 Ravens 4 of the last 6 ski days. New snow over soft each day. Knee deep in untracked areas. Once I sorted out the ramp with Vipecs I’m really digging them. Sure they get pushed around in heavy, set up and bumpy crud but I’m usually looking for soft snow on the periphery of the resort. The light weight is very nice. Makes me want a Hoji. Bought a same vintage 196 Renegade because I like the shape so much. I’ve got the blue/white Raven, green/white Renegade. Now I want the 195 red/white Hoji.


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[BeHuWe]

Scooped up a pair in the stash sale and I’m pretty excited after my three laps on these in little bit of mixed conditions. Mounted with voyagers on the line, boot maestrale xt.

Weight: 1810/1822 @184cm


The up was fine, skis felt fine on the up. We’re a little loose on the firmer sections of the skinner but I could have easily just put crampons on to mitigate those issues. The 4lock is a pretty trick system, would be very keen to modify my other touring skis to accept this if they offered the skins without a ski.

The down (the best part) It took about 3-4 turns to kind of get the sensation down. I thoroughly read this thread before I ordered and I already have a touring quiver of progressively mounted skis, so I think that aided in how easily I took to the raven’s.

They felt as expected on sastrugi, great on soft and some of the mix conditions i experienced. They really do feel quite loose until you apply some angulation then I feel like the really bite down(I didn’t detune yet, only ran a true bar across the bases after mounting). In the trees they felt quick and easy to ski I think that’s due to weight and shape.

Overall they are a fun and pretty intuitive ski if you favor progressive mounts. Really look forward to getting these on some corn in the coming weeks.


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[Andyski]

Took me maybe 7 days to really “get it” having been on mostly trad or Volkl mounts for the past 20 years. But I do now. The “hip shift” thing is real and works. Was super patient because I love the 4lock stuff - otherwise would have gone running to a blaze 106. Still have moments where the tail gets a little hung up (184s and I’m 5’8” and skinny) but recentering to the balance point quickly fixes that. Was blown away at how well they skied some wind blasted volcano ice and dogshit coming off the top of Bachelor a couple weeks ago. They’re definitely a little tougher to skin in firm conditions vs skis w/more surface area on the snow, but it’s not that bad so far - because they’re only 104 underfoot you can roll your ankles more easily to get more carpet on the snow when traversing. A 181 would be perfect for me, but whatever.


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[griffinmyers]

Took me maybe 7 days to really “get it” having been on mostly trad or Volkl mounts for the past 20 years. But I do now. The “hip shift” thing is real and works.

Can you tell me more about the "hip shift"? I've struggled to figure out fore/aft balance on ravens (and friends report similar on hojis), and would rather learn something new than cycle through more gear.

[rfconroy]

Can you tell me more about the "hip shift"? I've struggled to figure out fore/aft balance on ravens (and friends report similar on hojis), and would rather learn something new than cycle through more gear.

Nope - but I'd bet it has more to do with traditional v progressive mounts.

[Andyski]

Can you tell me more about the "hip shift"? I've struggled to figure out fore/aft balance on ravens (and friends report similar on hojis), and would rather learn something new than cycle through more gear.

1. Ski them a lot. I’m finding it hard to readjust to the Raven after spending a few days on other, more traditional skis. They’re VERY different IME.
2. It’s WELL worth spending a soft-ish day at the lifts to get the repetition in. Until I did that, I was pretty sure I’d made a huge mistake not just buying Blaze 106s given my Volkl habits.
3. Focus on the “flat of your foot” almost pressuring straight down rather than on the shin of the boot - I think “right behind ball of foot.” Then, swing your hips to initiate the pivot, as opposed to initiating turns by pressuring the front of your boots/spot just in front of the binding like you do with a trad ski. Any time I get even a little too forward in any kind of powder the front of the ski “bogs down.” The tip doesn’t fold or anything, but it feels like i have skins on or something. Sorry- so much of this is how things “feel” so the language won’t be perfect. Practicing this shit either going really slow on a groomer or just going for it in pow has been what’s worked for me.
4. Trial and error: So many people talk about skiing “upright” on more center mounted skis - for some reason that doesn’t work for me at all on the Ravens. Athletic, but slightly back it where’s it’s been at for me on these, but everyone is different. The lift days are invaluable for this kind of thing.
5. Mess w/your forward lean on your boots/bindings. I actually needed to be a bit more forward than I’d thought. I was hating them, assumed i was too far forward, put a shim in there and learned i was wrong.

unlike many others, it has NOT been love at first turn for me, but then i have days - in mixed snow, too - where they’re amazing. I’d actually love to hear what tips/tricks others have to make these work consistently. I’ve had plenty of flat or mostly reverse skis before. It’s the more forward mount that’s different on these.


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[Steffenator]

I sense this consensus that every skier MUST like this ski - else they simply haven't "figured it out" yet. I would challenge that. As a skier preferring of more symmetrical skis, but also flat-cambered skis, I never found my groove with the Raven (2021) despite getting very used to it over a bunch of days and purposeful adaptation. I respect where it excels, and why many folks enjoy it, but I didn't appreciate its shortcomings. Certainly, some people (including myself) can find a better compromise of benefits with alternative ski designs.

Point is - it may be a sweet design that works for many - but its far from a universal holy grail. IMHO
Actually, the real point is to echo my personal learning that if it doesn't feel right - it doesn't have to mean you're wrong! Try-try again. Skis vary so widely in how they feel and perform. Fascinating and expensive and frustrating stuff