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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Innsbruck, Austria
    Posts
    727
    ^^ ill just add to to the wootest comments. I am on an OG but one thing I say is that with the shapes they are producing now the rocker does not have to be that high. Thats what gets me about the wootest at 5mph i.e turtle speed in soft snow its easy and fun but go fast and they get progessivly worse. The shovels/tips just push upwards soo hard. I know dps does things a bit differently but when I see images of the spoon doing a slave that does not look fun to me having a full 1/3 of you ski if bow more out above the snow. My protests have really long low rocker and IMO that is what is money. There is just a point where high rocker is shit and I think thats way lots of people like the EHP. The shitter you are the higher the rocker should be but in i.e "expert" skis the rocker should be low and long. I hate nothing more then when I am skiing something like a rocker 2 and get up on a higher edge angle and all of a sudden edge lenth increase suddenly. I also agree with the straight sections while the protest is not completely straight its one of the straightest skis out there so when in shitty snow edge contact feels natural the higher you angle the more contact but in a gradual and smooth way not the no edge no edge and then bang hocky stop...

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    6,055
    I like long the radius pin tail ski when done right. The tail is there when you want it, and disappears when you don't. Best examples I've used are the Lotus 120 and the Worth Humpback and George. Lhasas are awesome skis, but the tails can wash if your fore aft balance isn't precise. If you're on, it's probably the most capable ski of the bunch.

    Originally Posted by Lindahl
    He could also mean pintailed, which I agree with 100%. I like and don't like a pintail. In the trees and pillows I like them, but throw me on a steep wide open uncut face and I don't like them as much. They work, but you have to put some mental effort in managing the tail and making sure it doesn't slide out in a long high speed turn (actually it feels more like the tip aggressively pulls you into a sharp turn). Add lots of oppurtunity for small air, though, and I like it again.
    Completely agree with this, except the Lotus 120 is pretty close to providing the best of both worlds in untracked.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    5,490
    Pintailed is more complicated than tip width minus tail width. It has to do with how the tip edge rides/hooks-up in snow, compared to the tail edge. For a fixed ski length, its the ratio: (tip-waist) / (tail-waist)

    Effectively, the sidecut radius in the tip versus the sidecut radius in the tail.

    What I also find funny is that a pintailed ski is actually MORE predictable on firm snow and crud than it is in untracked.

    In uncut snow the tugging of the tip (or washing of the tail) is almost random feeling, so you have to actively pay attention.

    In crud, I've never experienced the tugging of the tip.

    In firm snow, there isn't so much a tugging of the tip as there is a persistent tail wash. What makes it more predictable is the fact that its persistent (constantly washing out). All you have to do is adjust your balance forward and drive the ski and its not a problem. Try and execute a quick slash/skid and the tail washes out pretty noticably, but after some time on the ski, you get used to it and your technique gets dialed in so that becomes a non-issue also. In fact, in firm snow billygoating situations, I love it.

    So, in crud, it doesn't happen. In firm snow, a smart and skilled skier can easily adjust his technique. But in uncut you can't adjust because the tugging occurs randomly since your ski is in a constant state of flux in terms of angle, depth and how it interacts with the changing snow density.

    Thats my experience at least (with getting my tip tugged... heh).

  4. #29
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    29,093
    that's a pretty good description of a semi-pintail (as I described last page), Lindahl, though I'd have to disagree with your take on the uncut performance.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    5,490
    Its my experience with the old Billygoat which was very pintailed: 140-115-120

    Love the ski for most resorts but I want something in my quiver for more alpine locations like you find in Europe.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Portlandia
    Posts
    2,336
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Its my experience with the old Billygoat which was very pintailed: 140-115-120

    Love the ski for most resorts but I want something in my quiver for more alpine locations like you find in Europe.
    Well....you do have a new BG now.
    Training for Alpental

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Schruns
    Posts
    663
    Quote Originally Posted by neck beard View Post
    Hey Jrainy, ignoring weight, which skis do you think best meet your shape requirements? Doesn't have to be perfect, but in that general direction of shape and performance you described.
    EHP - Still available in 179 all over and cheap, best ski ever?
    Renegade - Too stiff and planky to ski really crappy hard snow in a way that doesn't hurt
    Hoji - Haven't skied but i'm sure it's fun, more sidecut and rocker than ehp, so probably less cool in shit snow
    Kusula - Is probably rad as fuk, kinda wide for all around.
    Down CD3 - Could be promising. Would like to try.
    Down CD4 - Looks like a great skinnier, straight ski. A real rarity.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Juxtaposition
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    5,811
    Quote Originally Posted by JRainey View Post
    EHP - Still available in 179 all over and cheap, best ski ever?
    Renegade - Too stiff and planky to ski really crappy hard snow in a way that doesn't hurt
    Hoji - Haven't skied but i'm sure it's fun, more sidecut and rocker than ehp, so probably less cool in shit snow
    Kusula - Is probably rad as fuk, kinda wide for all around.
    Down CD3 - Could be promising. Would like to try.
    Down CD4 - Looks like a great skinnier, straight ski. A real rarity.
    Thanks.

    4 looks good for narrow ski days.

    Pity the 3 is just in 190. And no side cut listed besides 'progressive'

    6 looks inerestin.

    Website must have been updated recently. I didn't see so many rockered skis recently when I checked.
    Last edited by neck beard; 07-17-2013 at 06:07 PM.
    Life is not lift served.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Schruns
    Posts
    663
    I think the info floating around the internet say the 'progressive' sidecut is 29m in the tip and something like 40 in the tail.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Taking names later
    Posts
    3,648
    IMO progressive is anything that is not constant, ie slight ly shorter tip radius with longer tail radius vs a constant radius that is maintained thru the length of the ski's sidecut.
    fighting gravity on a daily basis

    WhiteRoom Skis
    Handcrafted in Northern Vermont
    www.whiteroomcustomskis.com

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Schruns
    Posts
    663
    Just looked at down's new rocker picks on their site, kinda got a chub going.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    78 41′ 0″ N, 16 24′ 0″ E
    Posts
    1,509
    Quote Originally Posted by JRainey View Post
    I think the info floating around the internet say the 'progressive' sidecut is 29m in the tip and something like 40 in the tail.
    It's 29 in the tip, 55 underfoot, 35 in the tail. Actually a little more complex, but that's what you'd get from measuring it. I could say more, but it may be better in a separate thread, even if this one has become very interesting as a general discussion on certain aspects of ski design.

    Unread what you see on the site, it's not supposed to be seen until Aug 1st. ;-) At least the texts need more work...
    simen@downskis.com DOWN SKIS

  13. #38
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiSt View Post
    It's 29 in the tip, 55 underfoot, 35 in the tail.
    You should list that on your site. We all understand progressive, but based around what dimensions makes a difference.

    Edit: I see you've added a 41m average for one of the skis. Cool.
    Life is not lift served.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    The Other Side
    Posts
    715
    Quote Originally Posted by JRainey View Post
    Just looked at down's new rocker picks on their site, kinda got a chub going.
    That's the nicest web design i've seen for checking out a ski. It's like giving it a virtual fondling.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Schruns
    Posts
    663
    Yeah, It would be cool if they post pics in their blog. It's good to see the real thing.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    78 41′ 0″ N, 16 24′ 0″ E
    Posts
    1,509
    Quote Originally Posted by JRainey View Post
    Yeah, It would be cool if they post pics in their blog. It's good to see the real thing.
    As mentioned, site's not done yet. Either pics or pics and video. Aug 1st... ;-)

    Edit: Thanks Shu Shu. Credit for the site goes to www.ankhou.com
    Last edited by SiSt; 07-18-2013 at 02:35 PM.
    simen@downskis.com DOWN SKIS

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    CH
    Posts
    1,707
    This! Our man Ian gets 99% of the props for the site the past 3 years. Super creative, talented, and a good mag. Respect! Peep his work!
    Quote Originally Posted by SiSt View Post
    Edit: Thanks Shu Shu. Credit for the site goes to www.ankhou.com
    #1 goal this year......stay alive +
    DOWN SKIS

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Squamish, BC
    Posts
    713
    spotted in Whistler...

    Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    2,706
    Any more info on these? Gonna get a proper touring setup probably spring or next fall, was thinking Hoji 187, but would take a good look at these instead to save weight (I have Renegades with Guardians for slack).

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    232
    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    but really guys, WHATEVER hoji makes we will all buy.... does it matter
    I would agree with this statement more than anything else said in this thread

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    5


  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Noreg
    Posts
    174
    Interesting! Almost looks like a 5-point sidecut? 100ish mm under foot?

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    78 41′ 0″ N, 16 24′ 0″ E
    Posts
    1,509
    Quote Originally Posted by superdigg View Post
    Interesting! Almost looks like a 5-point sidecut? 100ish mm under foot?
    5-point is a meaningless definition, but yeah, all his skis have tapered tips and tails.
    simen@downskis.com DOWN SKIS

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    322
    Put me down as yet another fanboi of whatever Hoji cooks up.

    Any more details on these? Weight per pair? Tip-waist-tail dimensions? Rocker profile pics? Release date?

    I live in SLC and am hoping 4frnt will put out some demo pairs this year.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,592
    I was at 4frnt last Fri. Hoji's in town working through tweaking prototypes to dial it in. Sounded like later season they will have demoes with a release date for next year.

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