Tubeless Tire Blues

[Ferniefreeheels]

Hey all, just looking for a bit of advice on going tubeless on my 29er.

This is what I did, the bike has Alex rims. I bought a new set of Maxxis Ikons. I took of old tires and taped the rims with Gorilla tape, installed new valve stems and mounted the new tires. With a little bit of soap and a compressor I manage to get the tires to seat on the rims without too much trouble. So I figure this setup should work okay. I put 2 oz of Stan's in each tire and blow em up again, after a bit of shaking etc I get the beads sealed up nicely.

I went on a short ride a couple days ago with no issues. Last night I went for a ride and there were some slippery roots. I was just thinking to myself this setup seems to be working well. Then on a high speed downhill I bounce off a root and PFFFT! I roll the front tire off the rim, ride off the trail, roll ass over bandbox about 6 times down a steep bank (luckily no injuries).

Needless to say now am super paranoid to run tubeless now. Maybe the same thing would have happened with a tubed wheel? Who knows? I've pinched out a lot of times but never rolled one off of the rim that fast!According to the Maxxis website the Ikon is supposed to be a tubeless ready tires. The Alex rim website does not say one way or the other. I was running 35 psi in both tires.

I'm just wondering what the tubeless guru's out there think. Is it a bad tire rim combo? Should I be running a heavier walled tire for my (somewhat aggressive) riding style? Or maybe I should just go with what I know and stay with tubes?

Thanks guys :-)

[JTrue]

I've always had good luck with the ghetto tubeless route. The fileted tube ends up sticking to the bead of the tire with dried Stans, not sure if this happens when using gorilla tape as I've never tried that method. I've never had a tire blow off a rim. I've had gashes in sidewalls that caused this method to fail, but otherwise it's been bomber...

Hey all, just looking for a bit of advice on going tubeless on my 29er.

This is what I did, the bike has Alex rims. I bought a new set of Maxxis Ikons. I took of old tires and taped the rims with Gorilla tape, installed new valve stems and mounted the new tires. With a little bit of soap and a compressor I manage to get the tires to seat on the rims without too much trouble. So I figure this setup should work okay. I put 2 oz of Stan's in each tire and blow em up again, after a bit of shaking etc I get the beads sealed up nicely.

I went on a short ride a couple days ago with no issues. Last night I went for a ride and there were some slippery roots. I was just thinking to myself this setup seems to be working well. Then on a high speed downhill I bounce off a root and PFFFT! I roll the front tire off the rim, ride off the trail, roll ass over bandbox about 6 times down a steep bank (luckily no injuries).

Needless to say now am super paranoid to run tubeless now. Maybe the same thing would have happened with a tubed wheel? Who knows? I've pinched out a lot of times but never rolled one off of the rim that fast!According to the Maxxis website the Ikon is supposed to be a tubeless ready tires. The Alex rim website does not say one way or the other. I was running 35 psi in both tires.

I'm just wondering what the tubeless guru's out there think. Is it a bad tire rim combo? Should I be running a heavier walled tire for my (somewhat aggressive) riding style? Or maybe I should just go with what I know and stay with tubes?

Thanks guys :-)

[toast2266]

Heavier tire will help. More pressure will help too. But yeah - I have trouble keeping tubeless tires aired up as well. I get way more flats with tubeless than I ever did with tubes. I've pretty much gone back to tubes for that reason.

[supermodel159]

I ran tubeless at a recent 12hr race. 1st lap puncture in my rear tire (Maxxis Ikon), 2nd lap puncture in my front tire (Ardent). So, for the time being I'm back to running with tubes.

Before this incident I rode all summer tubeless with Stans rims with no major problems.

[mntlion]

so you have a non-UST rim and non-UST tire? This CAN work, but each time you take a part, and no something that it is not made for, the odds of it failing are greater
But yes, it sounds like you have done all you can. Maybe try the same, but with a UST, or stronger sidewall tire?

[Touring_Sedan]

x2

I've always had good luck with the ghetto tubeless route. The fileted tube ends up sticking to the bead of the tire with dried Stans, not sure if this happens when using gorilla tape as I've never tried that method. I've never had a tire blow off a rim. I've had gashes in sidewalls that caused this method to fail, but otherwise it's been bomber...

or

http://www.notubes.com/Rim-Strips-C13.aspx

Every once in a while, you'll find a rim that takes a specific strip, ie. Bonty TLR.

FWIW, I think the tire tends to make a better stans seal with a rubber-rubber contact.

[iscariot]

I find these help a lot...

http://petefagerlin.com/yes_tubes/index.htm

[Dantheman]

I get way more flats with tubeless than I ever did with tubes.

Conversely, I used to pinch flat all the time even at 40 psi. Switched to ghetto tubeless and I've had one flat in 4.5 years. Never blown a bead off the rim either. Not that this is of any use to the OP's situation as I've only done 26" wheels and bmx tubes, but my experience has been the polar opposite.

[stuckathuntermtn]

It's my impression that Alex rims are really cheap, so that could be the problem right there. idk

[Conundrum]

It's my impression that Alex rims are really cheap, so that could be the problem right there. idk

There you have it. Big gulps eh fellas...

[nickwm21]

I have very little issues with arch exs, gorilla tape, and a 50/50 mix of stans and slime.... currently running ardent and hdampfs.

sent from the future using my mind powers

[300hp]

as mentioned, some rims just don't have enough hook to hold the bead safely for tubeless.

If you are heartset, try the split tube method as mentioned earlier. bullcrew on ridemonkey did a great pictorial on the bmx tube ghetto tubeless setup.

If it is purely a weight savings thing, give the qtube/kenda lite tubes a try. They are about 100g lighter than a standard .9mil tube and might give you some of the rotational benefits you are looking for.

I'm super paranoid about what happened to you, so I run plain tubes and exo casing tires. I'm always tempted to set up my 5.1d tubeless, but fucking with something that is known to work isn't always the best idea...

[nickwm21]

I'm always tempted to set up my 5.1d tubeless, but fucking with something that is known to work isn't always the best idea...

5.1ds and tubeless is a terrible idea....

sent from the future using my mind powers

[frorider]

5.1ds and tubeless is a terrible idea....

sent from the future using my mind powers

for several yrs I ran 5.1ds tubeless with the rubber stan's strip. worked great, but I did need to use tires that work well tubeless e.g. the 2bliss Specialized tires.

[BushwackerinPA]

no doubt my stans arch/flows and WTB I19 have been better than the split tube method but the split tube method is the only way I have ever gotten anything other than a real tubeless rim to seal up and stay sealed up..

[plugboots]

It sounds like an incompatibility. Some tires just don't do tubeless well. Panaracers just have too big a diameter and blow off for me, for example. I'd go ghetto or get a Stan's rim strip, and a different tire. Kendas have a tighter diameter and have always stayed on tight for me.

[bendtheski]

I've had pretty good success with UST/UST. Only tried one non-UST tire (panaracer) with stans on a UST rim, and ended up opting for a lightweight tube instead.

Alex rim would not be my first choice for, well, pretty much anything.

[jm2e]

I think whatever system you want to try out, you need to ease into it. Seems like a risky plan to try tubeless and go for high speed downhill two days into it.

Is there a threshold that's crossed in the cost/benefit trade off with tubeless? For me riding mostly slow windy trails on dirt and roots in the SE, running tubeless at 20-25psi gives a fantastic feel and holds air with very few rim shots. If I run tubes the feel is horrible and I get flats. If I run high pressure with tubes, well it just sucks worse. But what I read in here makes it sound like the guys out west riding more downhill oriented trails with more rocks are running tubes and running much higher pressures. It gives me the impression that once you start downhilling a lot faster on rockier shit, high pressure tires are necessary and therefore the benefits of tubeless quickly fall away. What little downhilling I've done left me feeling like tire pressure didn't matter so much compared with the subtle feel it offers when riding cross country.

I've also been thinking, is there a real definition for "ghetto tubeless"? Does it imply a split BMX tube? Or does it encompass anything less than UST tubes on UST rims? Is gorilla tape and sealant with stans valves (the new "standard") considered Ghetto?

[plugboots]

[flatlander#2]

I had a slow leaking rear, needed air every day. Wednesday before the 4th I thought hell I'd better check that as I was riding long next day (the Firecracker). Threw it in the stand, aired it down, popped the bead and it was bone ass dry. Not a single goober in there but there was a nice little staple perfectly shaped stuck right in the middle. Couldn't believe how dry it was and was still reasonably holding air. Ignitor on handbuilt Crest. Threw some new juice in there, in the week since I've probably ridden 150 miles, no worries.

[beaterdit]

I think whatever system you want to try out, you need to ease into it. Seems like a risky plan to try tubeless and go for high speed downhill two days into it.

Is there a threshold that's crossed in the cost/benefit trade off with tubeless? For me riding mostly slow windy trails on dirt and roots in the SE, running tubeless at 20-25psi gives a fantastic feel and holds air with very few rim shots. If I run tubes the feel is horrible and I get flats. If I run high pressure with tubes, well it just sucks worse. But what I read in here makes it sound like the guys out west riding more downhill oriented trails with more rocks are running tubes and running much higher pressures. It gives me the impression that once you start downhilling a lot faster on rockier shit, high pressure tires are necessary and therefore the benefits of tubeless quickly fall away. What little downhilling I've done left me feeling like tire pressure didn't matter so much compared with the subtle feel it offers when riding cross country.

I've also been thinking, is there a real definition for "ghetto tubeless"? Does it imply a split BMX tube? Or does it encompass anything less than UST tubes on UST rims? Is gorilla tape and sealant with stans valves (the new "standard") considered Ghetto?

I don't know, I run OG Ghetto (split BMX tube) on my DH bike here in UT, with lower pressures than my trail bike, 20-22 lbs. I ding rims a lot but the heavier tires support it. For reference, I'm a moderately successful Cat. 1 DH racer so I'm going decently fast in all conditions. Works great, NEVER have an issue till they dry out and even then they just lose air slowly. I'm on Stan's rims on my trailbike and run 22-26 lbs with midweight tires, Maxxis EXO casings. Rarely have an issue on the trailbike except for the same. About once a season I'll have a puncture that doesn't seal, I guess due to the lighter weight tires. I guess having the right tires is pretty key, I basically only run Minions and have good luck with those. Some brands/models just don't play well with some rims but just about any tire will work Ghetto IME. Ran Ghetto on my Single speed when I was riding that a lot with whatever tires were cheap, never had issues.

I also know people who "hate tubeless" and still run tubes, and they get flats. I guess they just never had the patience to figure it out properly. I don't have the patience for flats. I guess you just have to find what works for you. I'll never go back though that's for damn sure, it's totally changed my riding style. Also, I've been mixing my own juice for about five years now, I call it "Sam's". My roommate's on the same juice and it works great for him too, he trusts it for shit like this. Much cheaper than Stan's or any of the others these days, works as well if not better.

It's real easy, in an old water bottle, mix one part latex mold builder with two parts water. Add whatever you want as an aggregate, I use glitter if I have any, if not I don't bother. Works out to about 1/4 the cost of Stan's juice. YMMV...

[Finstah]

I would never consider running tubes in my automobile, so I don't run them in my mtn bike either...

But I do think there's something to be said for tires and rims that are designed to be used tubeless, ie. a UST or BST compliant rim in conjunction with a UST or Tubeless ready tire.

[Dromond]

A riding buddy ran ghetto (split tube) tubeless for years without issue. This weekend he was running a single ply Maxxis Minion 2.35 on a non tubeless rim with the Stan's rim strips and rolled his front tire off the rim hitting a small rock crooked at low speed.

I'm running UST/UST in the rear and it has been utterly bulletproof so far. I still am running a tube (Maxxis ultralight) in the front for easy tire changes, security and because I have some tires I want to run in front that aren't tubeless ready or UST. It is ultra-rare for me to pinch a front tube.

[Dantheman]

latex mold builder

Where do you get this?

[creaky fossil]

Captain Obvious reporting for duty...

Whether you're gonna burp and roll tires often seems to be more about your particular cornering/riding style, and less about the rim/tire compatibility except in odd cases where the rim diameter is just too small -- but even there, I would expect rolling off at lower PSI even with a tube.

I know lots of folks who ride very fast who don't burp or roll tires. Most of them are on Stan's rims, using Stan's tape & goo. Maxxis, Schwalbe tires. But honestly none of them is a slam-the-berm rider. Berm-slamming puts big shear forces on the tire/rim connection. As does landing sideways.