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08-04-2018, 05:26 AM #226Banned
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Every job I worked on as a pro was limited by budget. Not once did the state or any bike club say, "Build us the most awesome trail you could." Building cool shit is obviously more expensive. I think this is at the heart of the anti-flow trail sentiment that is brewing back here in the east. In reality the ONLY reason trail builders back east went to excavators is because hand building was not cost effective. For the last 10 years now they have been trying to figure out how to make excavator trail look like hand built trail. Some are getting close.
The irony for me is their layouts now are for 100 percent benched trail. In many locations if they selectively benched to get from zone to zone, and hand built old school trail where they could they would save tons of $ and time. Instead a large percentage of trail is way overbuilt for the machine and then reverts back to tighter lines.
A better approach IMO would be to machine bench the obvious sections, and under build everything else. Let the tires do the finish work and as they uncover the problem areas as indicated by trail degradation you "build out" the final solution. This model best fits the annual funding model we see here with clubs getting annual grants or annual funds from membership.
100% machine built for 100% of new trail is a scam being perpetrated on the State and the State Org. as well as the riders.
$.02
Stoke to off-set the rant. Rock work done with no tools. 100% flesh on stone. When life gives you a pile of stones.....make the trail stoned.
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08-04-2018, 09:20 AM #227
I've never ridden a machine made trail. I have an interest, but clearly not much of one because I haven't done it yet. I prefer challenging tech with a mix of flow where the terrain gives it to you. At the same time, I think these dirt sidewalks have their place as it will get more people out biking which will potentially contribute to a healthier, happier society and drive the economy of bike shops and the sales Reps on this board.
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08-04-2018, 09:22 AM #228
There's a ton of work in getting the OK for sanctioned trail very like the US process which we don't talk about much cos it's really boring and tedious. Kootenayskier is intimately familiar with this
Provincial, sometimes federal, sometimes private, sometimes municipal and increasingly often times First Nation.
Although thank ullr we don't have to deal with the US laws re "mechanized" prohibitions. It's motorized vs non-motorized here
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08-04-2018, 02:10 PM #229
That's a good rant.
Machine built trail is becoming so ubiquitous around here, the hand built option is barely even considered when new trails are being built. And I'm concerned that some of the funding sources and grants are going to start expecting the mile / dollar figures that are really only possible with a fairly uninteresting trail, built by a machine. Which sucks.
There are some guys that are getting pretty good with their machines, and they would certainly argue that they can build something that's essentially the same as a hand built trail. But as a rider, I heartily disagree with them.
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08-30-2018, 12:19 PM #230Registered User
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I’ve been building single-track with hand built trail crews for the past 18 years. It’s never occurred to me that the measure of success for trail building was how inexpensively you could build a section of trail, rather the subjective quality of the experience of the people who use them. Hand building enables maximum creative expression, without the unavoidable limitation of a machine having to build a mini-road for its own passage.
Blogging at www.kootenayskier.wordpress.com
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09-11-2018, 09:02 AM #231
Forest bathing
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09-11-2018, 05:19 PM #232Registered User
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Kootenayskier, how many people on your typical hand crew?
Curious how it compares to the contract builders that typically operate for USFS projects. Contracts go for so little for the FS it usually leaves room for 2-3 people and a machine, thus the cheap and boring machine built crap. Shit, on the Gallatin they have just been doing hourly machine work and no one even does finish work. I’ve started to think we need a full time non profit professional trail crew around here, but just wishful thinking...
Beautiful work, BTW!
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09-11-2018, 05:35 PM #233
Reloaming trails
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09-15-2018, 10:44 PM #234
Keeping things tidy
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09-16-2018, 09:16 AM #235Registered User
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Blogging at www.kootenayskier.wordpress.com
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09-16-2018, 09:23 AM #236Registered User
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Blogging at www.kootenayskier.wordpress.com
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09-16-2018, 09:52 AM #237
Stu in that 3rd pic down how did you keep the soil on the side looking so undisturbed? Revegetate? Or is that sometime later. I've been trying to work on that and any tips are useful
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09-16-2018, 04:24 PM #238Registered User
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No real tricks, just the effort to do so. I encourage our crews to broadcast debris from trail construction as far and unobtrusively as possible. They sometimes do this well, other times not. If it’s spread thinly, like here, a couple of months of growth hides everything.
Blogging at www.kootenayskier.wordpress.com
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10-06-2018, 08:18 PM #239
New trail at Marshall is coming along pretty well
Plus they had beer and tacos up there today
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10-07-2018, 07:43 PM #240
Made a sketchy jump somewhat less sketchy.
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10-11-2018, 11:24 PM #241"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. The winds will blow their freshness into you, and the storms, their energy. Your cares and tensions will drop away like the leaves of Autumn." --John Muir
"welcome to the hacienda, asshole." --s.p.c.
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10-16-2018, 01:08 PM #242
Some dig stoke lulz from the guys at Transition...
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/6-flav...ers-video.html
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10-16-2018, 01:38 PM #243
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10-16-2018, 02:49 PM #244Registered User
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10-16-2018, 04:44 PM #245
That Tranny vid is hilarious.
Trying to mould some next gen builders.
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10-16-2018, 06:19 PM #246
^ freaking adorable
i love it that around here they hire local high school kids for summer trail work. such a good character building experience!
and of course I esp love seeing my fellow outdoor loving little ladies enjoying their time out thereskid luxury
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10-17-2018, 07:04 AM #247
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10-19-2018, 06:59 AM #248Banned
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I'm curious why you guys are replacing displaced organic material with more organic material?
For me, once traffic displaces the duff it's time to refill with good dirt that will compact and resist the erosion a second time. Totally understand different solutions for different locations but it seems to me that this will be a never ending cycle and a more durable fix would be a better idea?
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10-19-2018, 10:47 AM #249Registered User
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10-19-2018, 02:06 PM #250Banned
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Out here in the east where we have the leaves that drop every year most legit trails networks leaf blow the trails. I let the leaves replenish the organic layer that is the first material displaced by use. It goes a long way in keeping the trails fresh and smooth-rolling as there are when they are first born so I do appreciate how it can help. The leaf-layer is free for us though, no labor required it just falls from the sky. Seems silly to blow it off if there is a high enough level of traffic to keep the trails well defined.
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